Posted on 04/17/2005 12:39:43 AM PDT by NYer
Rome, April 11 (Reuters): Maybe it describes the colour of his skin or place of birth.
But the next Pope will be the “Olive” Pope, according to a 12th century prophecy that foresees just two remaining pontificates before the end of the world.
The often-cited — and contested — prediction is attributed to St Malachy, an Irish archbishop recognised by members of the church for his ability to read the future and who was canonised more than 800 years ago.
St Malachy was said to have had a vision during a trip to Rome around 1139 of the remaining 112 Popes before the Last Judgment, the time when the Bible says God separates the wicked from the righteous at the end of time.
The next Pope will be number 111 on that list and is described in the text as the “Glory of the Olive”.
Like any good prophecy, there is plenty of room for interpretation: he could be “olive” skinned, heralding from Latin America, Africa or the Mediterranean.
“It could even be a Pope of Jewish origin, since the olive branch is a biblical symbol for the people of Israel,” speculated Italy’s La Stampa paper.
Malachy-watchers had long speculated the “Olive” Pope would come from the Order of Saint Benedict, a branch of which is known as the Olivetans. But at the age of 93, the only Benedictine cardinal is now too old to become Pope. The cut-off age is 80.
The Malachy prophecy has been the subject of controversy for centuries. Critics say it is a forgery, possibly distributed as campaign propaganda in the late 16th century to favour a cardinal during the conclave.
But believers point to similarities with the pontiffs. Pope John Paul II, number 110, was described in the prophecy as “de labore solis” — or “of the labour of the sun”.
He was born on May 18, 1920, the same day as a solar eclipse. The pontiff was buried on April 8, 2005 — the same day as a partial eclipse, visible in the Americas.
Some take the prophecy relating to John Paul less literally and say it simply referred to the Polish Pope’s birthplace in eastern Europe. The sun rises in the East. The 109th on the list, Pope John Paul I, was dubbed as “de medietate lunae” or “half moon” by the prophecy.
More pressing, perhaps, for doomsayers are the references to the last Pope on the list “Petrus Romanus”, or Peter the Roman, and makes mention of the destruction of “the city of seven hills” — Rome.
There is no point in confusing credulity with faith. And I am not ridiculing Nostradamus (in fact I was careful to point out that his ideas about sanitation and fresh air were ahead of his time, and probably helped his patients.) But the claims circulating are so preposterous and overreaching that it's hard to take them seriously.
And it is not a "known fact" that his herbal preparations cured anyone. Retrospective medical history is a popular area for historians, but at this distance it's impossible to say whether any herbal remedy had the slightest effect. My own opinion is that the cleanliness, disposing of corpses, and fresh air he advocated reduced the flea host population and secondary infection. That's a good thing, and the citizens of Aix gave him a testimonial (and I hope a nice gift with some monetary value). His own wife and children, however, died of the plague despite his remedies.
On a more serious note, if you want to believe in alchemy and magic, that's your business, but the Church disapproves. Mysticism is another matter, but that's dangerous ground for non-saints to tread. It's too easy to shade over into the magical and demonic.
Some olives are green. Some olives are black.
What does olive Pope have to do with Marian component?
Alchemy is the forerunner of modern chemistry.
Again, you have no real knowledge of which you claim. I don't need a new convert to the Novus Ordo to "teach" me what the Church teaches, and what you know about mysticism as a new Catholic could fit into a thimble. Concentrate on your own progression rather than critiquing that of others.
You are in over your head. Stop now before you embarrass yourself further.
Good guess Fred-Wasn't the Holy Father there for a visit?
I don't know... I heard them speak of this on Relevant Radio (Catholic Radio) last week, and caught the end of the piece.
Your guess is as good as mine.
That is my understanding as well. I wonder if it would piss off the Muslims? :)
Interesting. Thanks. I've never heard of St. Malachy.
It seems like we're getting close to the end. Didn't Garabandal predict this too?
Isn't the cardinal of France of Jewish origin who converted to Catholicism?
You show me ONE pronouncement by the Church that this man was a saint, a blessed, or even adhering to the Church's doctrines in what he said and did, and I will concede that we are having a religious discussion and not a historical one. (Since he was declared a heretic and that declaration to my knowledge was never revoked, you're probably going to have a hard time finding any evidence.)
In the meantime, your framing this as a religious/doctrinal issue in order to assert that (as a relatively recent convert to Catholicism) I have no right to an opinion, is simply an attempt to change the subject and an ad hominem attack. I have not attacked you personally or questioned your scholarly credentials, so I would appreciate your returning the favor and sticking to the issue at hand.
Do you have any documented support for your claims?
Bump for later...
Michel de Notre-Dame, the "National Enquirer" of his time. :-)
Clever! That was my thought as well...
I remember reading something about them having to be a Bishop, but that they could simultaneously be ordained Bishop and Pope. I am not sure if that is the way it works.
For what it is worth, I had a dream last week that Jean-Baptiste Gurion became Pope. He is the Benedictine Bishop of Jerusalem.
I remember reading something about them having to be a Bishop, but that they could simultaneously be ordained Bishop and Pope. I am not sure if that is the way it works.
For what it is worth, I had a dream last week that Jean-Baptiste Gurion became Pope. He is the Benedictine Bishop of Jerusalem.
That's quite a dream to have ..... what did you eat!!!?!??
The Olivetans are not a branch of the Benedictines.
The Olivetans are not a branch of the Benedictines.
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