Posted on 04/17/2005 2:55:46 PM PDT by presidio9
Rome -- One-hundred-and-fifteen men will lock themselves into the Sistine Chapel on Monday afternoon, gaze up at the magnificent ceiling fresco of Michelangelo, and start to pray for the collective wisdom to choose the next Supreme Pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church.
In a matter of days, one of them will emerge as the leader of the world's 1.1 billion Catholics and, according to Catholic doctrine, the successor not only to Pope John Paul II but to Saint Peter the Apostle.
"The legacy is incredible. We are at such an important point in the history of the church," said the Rev. Mark Brentnall, 44, an English priest studying in Rome. "It is the one who would least want the keys of Peter who may be the best man."
Brentnall, along with the Rev. Steven Lopes, 30, from the Archdiocese of San Francisco, and two other priests, sat in the library of Casa Santa Maria, a seminary just a short walk from Trevi Fountain.
These young priests could live for decades with the choice made in the next few days by the College of Cardinals, whose members' average age is 72.
And so could the rest of the world, for the challenges the new pope faces extend far beyond the confines of the Catholic Church.
In a series of interviews conducted in Rome and Vatican City over the past week, church leaders, scholars and other informed observers said five key issues confront the princes of the church and the man who will be pope.
They are:
-- Bioethical and medical issues such as abortion, embryonic stem cell research, cloning, birth control and euthanasia;
-- Power-sharing in the church between the pope, the Vatican bureaucracy, individual bishops and national organizations such as the U.S. Conference of Catholic bishops;
-- Globalization and
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
These idiots just don't have a clue
-- Bioethical and medical issues such as abortion, embryonic stem cell research, cloning, birth control and euthanasia;
There's no issues to be "decided" here - only different approaches to fighting these things.
-- Power-sharing in the church between the pope, the Vatican bureaucracy, individual bishops and national organizations such as the U.S. Conference of Catholic bishops;
The Church is a monarchy, it can be nothing else.
-- The role of women in a patriarchal church that claims Jesus does not authorize their ordination
Women have a role, a very important role - just not the role of ordained ministers.
None of these things can change, no pope has the authority - the secular press just doesn't get it since they are used to Truth being decided by poll.
Just a prediction.
TS
The "power sharing" can change, and has. Paul VI allowed bishops a great deal of leeway, especially in the Episcopal Conferences. JPII reigned that in. Many cardinals desire more of a voice for the conferences again.
Just depends on how much trust the Pope has in his brother bishops.
" Bioethical and medical issues such as abortion, embryonic stem cell research, cloning, birth control and euthanasia..."
Un-hunh. And so the SFChron rewrites Scripture?
And they wonder why the Rock doesn't change things. Simply because he is the Rock and has been from Peter and Peter follows Christ even to death.
That will only happen when the Pope himself, in the name of the Church, apologizes to the victims and seeks personal contact with them.
PING
They are too, "easy choices". But the right and good options run entirely counter to liberalism.
There is no ethics in 'bioethics'.
The Church better NOT change.
It's that trust in "brother bishops" in the U.S. that has brought diocesan bankruptcies, pederasty scandals, nosediving church attendance, and liturgical abuse. The present crisis in the Church calls for a lot less collegiality and a lot more Catholicism.
I'm still in shock after reading our local rag, The Virginian-Pilot this morning. The editors saw fit to plaster the front page of Sunday's news with a gigantic article regarding the "Papal History is riddled with bloody, gory stories," and "Historically the quest to choose a new leader of the Catholic Church has led to bloody battles for power..."
And of course, the obligatory objections from "I go to Mass every week BUT" Catholics.
I knew Satan would be on the offensive but really, this is getting annoying.
Our role is most important, we give birth to priests!
"Just depends on how much trust the Pope has in his brother bishops." - based on what comes from the American Bishops, I'd say any Pope would be a major fool or schismatic to trust them at all. Look how they have totally failed with the pervert priests - too many involved Bishops were active 'enablers' of the perverts.
Yes, and when the Vatican was informed of the extent of the problem in 1984, it did exactly........nothing.
"Huge issues for Catholics: gender, poverty, bioethics"
There may be huge issues for American pious, moralequivalent, pretenders, but not for the Church.
They are the ones who will have to reform their ways.
Wouldn't it work for the American bishops who are directly responsible to do that, like two years ago? The new pope needs to defrock Law and put him under an extreme penance, in which, if he wants to come to Mass, he stands outside the doors, and begs the prayers of the faithful.
This fast-tracking of saints cheapens what people like Peter and Andrew and Edith Stein went through.
Understood. But, that was then. And maybe all will be well. My point is that the sheeple need a slap upside the head to put an end (for now) to the clattering that is going on.
That is not true; in fact, the allegations were just beginning to come to the knowledge of those outside the immediate dioceses.
What's more, the abusers were still in the priesthood, in most cases, and were still being transferred when other abuse charges were made.
I don't disagree with you, and I don't disagree that John Paul the Great is a Saint (personally wittnessed a miracle associated with him), but I don't think it is appropriate 2000 years of Catholic tradition to accomadate modern society. For those who want to be saved, Christ has always been available.
I heard some Nutty Nun interviewed today on the radio and she said if the new Pope dosnt make women priests it would be the end of the Church, If she feels this way she should leave the Convent and join the Episcopalians .
good luck sister.
Why? The "sheeple", as you so condescendingly refer to lay people, are, in many cases more educated than the clerics who serve them. They run businesses, raise families, run governments, yet, in the area of spirituality and religion, they're just supposed to shut up and act like children.
Those days are over, my friend.
Much better to poll the laity and conform teachings to their wishes, donchaknow. After all, if popular things are declared to be not sinful, there will be fewer sins.
The liberals declared this to be the "Age of the Laity." But now that the laity are demanding orthodoxy and right worship, they're once again told to "Pay, Pray, and Obey." There has never been less say among the laity in the Church, than in today's heterodox dioceses.
As you well know, the homosexual abuse itself peaked prior to 1984, only the allegations regarding same swelled after 1984.
It would appear that the cohort of homos ordained in the late 50s, 60s, and 70s were aging and becoming less homosexually active, and that in the 1980s and 1990s the seminaries were starting to improve, and in the last decade, far fewer homos snuck through the process.
Good shot P.
They want "more of a voice" so they can issue blantantly heretical statements and ignore the Vicar of Christ with impunity.
One is reminded of the quote (I think from Winston Churchill)...to paraphrase:
It's not hard to chose between right and wrong...it's only hard to do.
(perhaps a freeper can find the exact quote).
Right and wrong doesn't change. Experimenting on "embryos" or "pre embryos" is implying human life and one's offspring are merely things to be exploited...what kind of person would say: Yup. It could become my son or daughter, but you can experiment and destroy this life...one might not think the embryo is fully human to shudder about all the experiments that some scientists are doing with embryos, including animal/human mixtures...
So, the very bishops that JPII appoints want to ignore him with impunity and issue blatantly heretical statements? Why would he appoint them in the first place?
This focus on the Papacy as the only font of wisdom in the Church is very unwise.
LOL
Really cramps the AmChurch style, doesn't it?
Oh, good grief -- not that again.This claim you make is based on a book by David A. Barrett in the World Christian Encyclopedia: A Comparative Survey of Churches and Religions in the Modern World A.D. 1900—2000 (ed. David A. Barrett; New York: Oxford University Press, 1982). Barrett wrote that there were slightly over 20,000 denominations -- however, only 8,196 of these were Protestant. Before you get all gleeful again, note that every individual "non-denominational" church counted as its own denomination. Not only that, but he made distinctions between, say, a Methodist church that emphasized preaching and another Methodist church that emphasized modern praise worship.
What you may not want to hear is that Barrett also claimed that there were 223 Roman Catholic denominations.
I teach ESL classes and work with a Spanish-language Bible study at church. All of our members (except a handful) are "Catholic" -- but it's not a Catholicism that you would recognize. You can argue all the subtleties you want about dulia and hyperdulia but the fact is that poor Catholics in Hispanic countries are essentially polytheistic with a lot of shamanism thrown in. There's vastly more difference between your Catholic beliefs and their Catholic beliefs than your Catholic beliefs and any Protestant beliefs. I'mn perfectly comfortable worshipping in most Catholic churches but the things that they've been taught scare me. If you had a chance to work with poor Hispanic Catholics you would be shocked and disillusioned by the Vatican's claim of one church with one system of belief. It just ain't so.
For what it's worth, I don't ask whether the folks that I work with are in the country legally and I really don't care. We've had about 10 people over the past year who have came to know Christ and, you know what, not a one has joined our church. I'm fine with that, too -- we haven't asked anyone to join our church. They continue with our Bible study but most also attend local Hispanic Catholic churches. The only difference is that they now understand who Jesus Christ really is and what he has done for us. It has changed their lives.
Not an argument (I'm tired of all that) but I do want to set you straight on a fictitious claim that I see so often.
Your enmity and contempt for the Roman Catholic Church makes any input from you on the Church useless, even suspect.
Kung: "The problems with the ban on the pill and condoms are much more serious for Africa," he said. "The church is partly responsible for both the population explosion and the AIDS epidemic in Africa.''
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
WHAT? The Church is NOT responsible for risky behaviors of individuals. The next thing I expect to hear from Herr Hans is that it's "Bush's Fault."
FIRST of all, most of those procreating are not Catholics, they're Muslims. So now, how is the Catholic Church responsible? Hello, Hans, anybody home? (Didn't think so.)
Second of all, the media hasn't a clue and from what I've read lately of the Jesuits, they're a tad bit clueless, too. Ya Think?
Pray for the Cardinals, pray for the New Pope.
Excuse me? While you're checking out encyclopedias, you should check out more information on Catholicism because you don't seem to understand that we know who Jesus really is and what He has done for us. Or worse, you do, and don't mind spreading a little misinformation. Are you teaching an ESL class or proselytizing those with little understanding of English? Do you speak of Jesus to non-Catholics as well?
For what it's worth, I don't ask whether the folks that I work with are in the country legally and I really don't care. We've had about 10 people over the past year who have came to know Christ and, you know what, not a one has joined our church. I'm fine with that, too -- we haven't asked anyone to join our church.
You don't care to ask if they are here legally but you do care to ask whether or not they believe in Jesus as defined by your faith, even as it differs, where it does, from their faith, under the guise of ESL classes. Alrighty then.
LOL Really cramps the AmChurch style, doesn't it?
Only, for those who bother to pay any attention to it at all.
Since you are not the Christ, Who created His Church (Popes included), I guess you are not qualified to make that judgement.
I say you resign as a deacon.Shame on you.
donchaknow.
God,Never Baptize my children ,deacon you have posted on this forum that in the seminary an elder tried to kiss you on the mouth.Does your Bishop know you post and say you are a Deacon in Texas?I know people from the Higher ups Too.Thank you for all the prayers for the Holy Father after he died-Not.You are not a deacon-a make pretend one-you will never be a priest.Too cold hearted.
I can see that you're still posting without bothering to read or check the facts.So can you defend the notion that there are 20,000 Protestant denominations? If you had read my post, you would have found out that I was debunking that myth. All I can conclude is that you choose to continue to believe in myth rather than fact.
Your enmity and contempt for the Roman Catholic Church makes any input from you on the Church useless, even suspect.
Evidently you don't like me busting myths.You don't care to ask if they are here legally but you do care to ask whether or not they believe in Jesus as defined by your faith, even as it differs, where it does, from their faith, under the guise of ESL classes. Alrighty then.Evidently you've never been involved with Hispanic Catholic churches. If you don't believe me and the many others -- both Catholic and Protestant -- who have written about their sad state, then go check visit one for yourself. Go talk to a curandero. Find out for yourself that Latin American Catholicism has little in common with North American Catholicism. My guess is that you won't because you prefer to believe a myth.
Oh, yeah -- we speak of Jesus to any who care to listen. Do you?
Again, you didn't read what I wrote. We have ESL classes and we don't prosleytize in those classes. We have a bible study afterwards and some choose to stay. Some have become Christians as a result of those classes. None have joined our church and we haven't asked anyone to join our church.Yes, what they believe differs from what I believe, but no more than it differs from what you believe. You don't understand -- these people were not raised in a Christian environment but rather in an environment of polytheism and shamanism.
So I guess that you choose not to defend the 20,000 Protestant denominations myth. I don't blame you. You're painted into an intellectual corner once again and can only repeat your ad hominem attacks. You would make a very good Democrat, you know.
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