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Stalin's plan for the Soviet domination of Europe
Covering the Map of the World The Half-Century Legacy of the Yalta Conference ^ | February 1995 | Richard M. Ebeling

Posted on 04/24/2005 12:38:51 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

In 1939, Stalin began his play for Soviet domination of Europe. Years earlier, in a secret speech to the Communist Party Central Committee in January 1925, Stalin had laid out the strategy from which he never swerved in foreign policy: "But if war breaks out [in Europe] we shall not be able to sit with folded arms. We shall have to take action, but we shall be the last to do so. And we shall do so in order to throw the decisive weight into the scales, the weight that can turn the scales." Stalin's Marxist-Leninist view was that any war that broke out in Europe would be a war between the imperialist and capitalist nations. The strategy was to deflect any attack against the Soviet Union, and instead allow the capitalist nations to fight each other to exhaustion, at which point the Soviet Army would enter the war and conquer the European continent for the Communist cause.

In August 1939, Stalin put the strategy into practice by signing a nonaggression pact with Hitler, which meant that the war would be fought in the West among Germany, Britain, and France, leaving the Soviet Union safe and secure. In the meantime, the secret protocols of the Nazi-Soviet Pact gave Stalin control over eastern Poland, the Baltic Republics, Bessarabia, and Finland. Stalin's plan was that in 1942, at the latest, the Soviet Army would attack Germany, now that France was finished and England was weak and isolated off the European coast. The only problem was that Hitler double-crossed Stalin first by invading the Soviet Union in June 1941. This did not stop Stalin, after the German defeat at Stalingrad in the winter of 1942-43, however, in proposing a separate peace to Hitler through intermediaries in neutral Sweden, and obviously at the expense of his British and American allies. The only thing that prevented it was the fact that Hitler was unwilling to pay Stalin's price for ending the war on the eastern front. (See the review of Icebreaker: Who Started the Second World War? in Freedom Daily, November 1991.)


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Russia
KEYWORDS: communists; dictators; flashback; history; hitler; sovietunion; stalin; wwii
Some Soviet apologists actually try to defend the Hitler-Stalin pact by saying that Stalin was forced to side with Hitler by the appeasers Chamberlain and Daladier.

This historical revision completely ignores the fact that the Marxist Stalin was dedicated to the Communist conquest of western Europe from the very beginning.


What, no chair for me? (30th September, 1938)
At the end of the First World War, Poland was reborn as a nation-state out of the collapsed German, Austrian, and Russian Empires. At the peace conference at Versailles, Britain and France had demarcated the eastern border of Poland, and this became known as the Curzon Line. But in 1919, a war broke out between Poland and the new Bolshevik regime in Russia. At first the Poles advanced far into Russia, but the Bolsheviks counterattacked and reached the gates of Warsaw. The Poles then mounted their own successful counteroffensive and pushed the Red Army back, far to the east of the Curzon Line. The battle line became the political frontier when a peace treaty was signed between Poland and Lenin's Bolshevik regime in March 1921.

When Stalin and Hitler divided Poland in 1939, once again erasing it from the map of Europe, the line separating Soviet and Nazi zones of occupation was partly along and partly to the west of the Curzon Line. Stalin insisted throughout his wartime meetings with Churchill and Roosevelt that the Curzon Line was to be the border between Poland and the Soviet Union, not the older frontier according to the peace treaty of 1921.

In this shifting frontier of political control between Poland and the U.S.S.R., no consideration was ever given to the preferences or desires of those living in these lands. But one thing is certain, life for those who fell under Stalin's care in eastern Poland after 1939 was far from idyllic. It is quite doubtful that Roosevelt was right when he claimed that the people in these areas wanted to be part of the Soviet Union. Peasant land was seized, with the peasants forced into collective farms. All private property was nationalized. Tens of thousands of people were executed or sent off into slave labor in the Gulag prison camps. And in a region in which most of the people were either Russian Orthodox or Roman Catholic, religion was abolished and made a punishable offense.

When Adolf Hitler's foreign minister, Joachim von Ribbentrop, came to Moscow on August 23, 1939, to sign the Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, Joseph Stalin hosted a late-night supper for his German guests after the signatures had been affixed to the documents. Stalin rose from his chair and gave a toast to Hitler: ". . . a man for whom [I have] always had an extraordinary respect. . . . I know how much the German nation loves its Führer; I should therefore like to drink to his health."


1 posted on 04/24/2005 12:38:51 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Mount Athos; RusIvan; Romanov; Lukasz; Grzegorz 246; lizol; Kozak

ping


2 posted on 04/24/2005 12:42:49 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I highly recommend the book "Icebreaker", which is mentioned in the article. It details the treachery of Stalin, who was just weeks away from attacking Hitler when Hitler attacked Russia first. It is an outstanding read. Not something that you read about in history class, for some reason...


3 posted on 04/24/2005 12:45:09 PM PDT by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: All; Tailgunner Joe; Lukasz; lizol; Grzegorz 246; twinself; TexKat; Gucho; MeekOneGOP; ...

Very good Thank you

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/ww2time.htm
http://www.euronet.nl/users/wilfried/ww2/ww2.htm
http://www.ibiblio.org/pha
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/poland.htm
http://www.cyberroad.com/poland/jews_ww2.html
http://www.bellaonline.com/subjects/7315.asp
http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/coming2.htm
http://www.wargaming.net/tanks/poland.htm
http://www.polandsholocaust.org/intro.html

Please read Thank you all


4 posted on 04/24/2005 1:00:51 PM PDT by anonymoussierra (Omnia vincit amor; et nos cedamus amori -O sancta simplicitas!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
The strategy was to deflect any attack against the Soviet Union, and instead allow the capitalist nations to fight each other to exhaustion, at which point the Soviet Army would enter the war and conquer the European continent for the Communist cause.

Ironically, before invading Normandy, the Allies waited for Germany and the Soviet Union to fight each other to exhaustion at Stalingrad.

5 posted on 04/24/2005 1:04:45 PM PDT by Milhous (a possible South Park conservative)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
When Stalin and Hitler divided Poland in 1939, once again erasing it from the map of Europe, the line separating Soviet and Nazi zones of occupation was partly along and partly to the west of the Curzon Line. Stalin insisted throughout his wartime meetings with Churchill and Roosevelt that the Curzon Line was to be the border between Poland and the Soviet Union, not the older frontier according to the peace treaty of 1921.

It was even worse, according to the illegal Curzon Line, city of Lvov, populated by vast majority of Poles, was on the Polish side but Stalin seeing FDR’s and Churchill’s completely passive behavior took even Lvov and ignored own proposition of the Curzon line.
6 posted on 04/24/2005 1:14:09 PM PDT by Lukasz
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To: anonymoussierra

Bump - Thank you.


7 posted on 04/24/2005 1:24:08 PM PDT by Gucho
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To: All
And lest we forget ...

Without the Lend-Lease aid (convoys being protected by the US Navy while the United States was still a declared neutral country) going to the USSR ... including some 200 PBY's (the USSR terminology - GST) originally scheduled to be sent to Pearl Harbor for long-range reconnaissance ... the Germans and Russians might have bled each other to death ...

So it goes ...

8 posted on 04/24/2005 2:30:55 PM PDT by jamaksin
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To: jamaksin

Lend Lease to Russia?
Please don't forget all the fighter planes flown over to Russia by Dave Schilling, Howard Hively and other American pilots of the Eagle Squadron based in England.


9 posted on 04/24/2005 2:47:28 PM PDT by henderson field
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To: jamaksin
In 1940, the Japanese consul general in Harbin, Manchuria, intercepted several messages sent from the Soviet foreign minister, Vyacheslav Molotov, to the Soviet ambassador in Tokyo. In one of these messages, Molotov told his ambassador: "We concluded an 'Agreement with Germany' because a war is required in Europe" between the capitalist nations, to open the door for the future communization of the European continent. Molotov went on to explain that any peace settlement that would end the war between China and Japan "might destroy our work proceeding among the suppressed peoples of Asia, and . . . it would not instigate the Japanese-American war which we desire."

If Japan turned its eyes towards conquest in Southeast Asia — including the U.S.-controlled Philippine Islands — and became embroiled in a war with America, then Moscow could feel secure that the Japanese would not invade Soviet Siberia, as well. And in the chaos that a general war in Asia would create, the breeding ground for communist revolutions would be expanded. To help seal this likelihood, Stalin signed a non-aggression pact with Japan in April 1941.

In July 1941, a month after the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, FDR's confidant, Harry Hopkins, was in Moscow meeting with Stalin, assuring the Soviet dictator of Roosevelt's intention of supplying the Red Army with as much war materiel as it was possible to provide, with no strings attached. On August 1, FDR told his cabinet that he wanted the aid flowing to Stalin immediately. "The only answer I want to hear is that it is under way," Roosevelt said to them. "Get the planes off with a bang next week."

At that very moment, Stalin's greatest and most successful spy in the Far East, Richard Sorge — who had warned Moscow in early June 1941 that Hitler would attack the Soviet Union during the third week of June, predicting the invasion almost to the day (even though at the time Stalin refused to believe it) — was using his agents to find out if Japan was planning to attack north at Soviet Siberia or south into a collision course with the United States. On October 4, 1941, Sorge, in his last message to Moscow before his arrest by the Japanese police, informed Stalin:

The American issue and the question of the advance to the south are far more important [to the Japanese] than the Northern problem [the Soviet Union]. . . . There will be war with the U.S. this month or next. . . . Japan will attack the United States, then Malaya, Singapore and Sumatra.
Stalin had this information corroborated when Soviet intelligence intercepted a November 27 message from Tokyo to the Japanese ambassador in Berlin, saying that he was to "explain to Hitler that the main Japanese efforts will be concentrated in the south and that we propose to refrain from deliberate operations in the north (i.e., Siberia)."

But even as the American aid was beginning to flow into the Soviet Union to bolster the Red Army in the face of the German attack, Stalin kept this information from his most reliable spy to himself. Better not to warn Roosevelt about Japan's war intentions and better simply to watch the unfolding of the Japanese-American war that he wanted. - LINK

10 posted on 04/24/2005 2:58:25 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

If only Patton was allowed to do things his way.


11 posted on 04/24/2005 3:11:45 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (Don't You Think This Outlaw Bit's Done Got Out Of Hand?)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Thanks, very interesting. :)


12 posted on 04/24/2005 3:18:19 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :^)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Harry "The Hop" Hopkins ... we know now (from the VENONA project), was Soviet agent "No. 19" - as FDR's alter ego, he was there when Schulz delivered to FDR the 14th-part of the Japanese diplomatic message ... when FDR says "... This means war." Odd that FDR did did not then issue an alert to any of the US military installations.

Also, Hopkins was the Lend-Lease director in the Spring of 1943 ... when tens of tons of nuclear materials (includinf enriched uranium) ... was shipped to the USSR ...

13 posted on 04/24/2005 3:19:20 PM PDT by jamaksin
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To: Milhous
Ironically, before invading Normandy, the Allies waited for Germany and the Soviet Union to fight each other to exhaustion at Stalingrad.

That was hardly the reason. The Allies needed time to gather the weapons and personnel. Besides, Stalingrad fell Feb 1943, and Overlord launched June 1944.

14 posted on 04/24/2005 3:22:13 PM PDT by Petronski (Pope Benedict XVI: A German Shepherd on the Throne of Peter)
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To: Milhous
Ironically, before invading Normandy, the Allies waited for Germany and the Soviet Union to fight each other to exhaustion at Stalingrad.

We couldn't have invaded France (or anywhere in Europe) in the fall of 1942.

15 posted on 04/24/2005 3:24:44 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Tailgunner Joe

good catch, Joe.


16 posted on 04/24/2005 5:08:37 PM PDT by Askel5 ( Theresa Marie Schindler, Martyr for the Gospel of Life, pray for us )
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To: anonymoussierra
Thanks!

Excellent sites. Hope all is well with you Anonymoussierra.
17 posted on 04/24/2005 7:52:19 PM PDT by Chgogal
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To: Tailgunner Joe

This historical revision completely ignores the fact that the Marxist Stalin was dedicated to the Communist conquest of western Europe from the very beginning. ==

Accually it was Trotskii who propagated idea to dominate all Europe and whole world. Stalin and his cronies was enemies of Trotskii. They wanted to build socialism in one country - Soviet Union.


18 posted on 04/25/2005 1:29:29 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan
They wanted to build socialism in one country - Soviet Union.

But only until it was strong enough to "expand".
19 posted on 04/25/2005 4:15:42 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: Kozak

But only until it was strong enough to "expand".===

I don't defend Stalin but truth. Stalin and his croies wanted to power Soviet Union alone. For this many facts speak.

Vlad Ryzun the author of "Icebreaker" isn't historian but manipulator. He misinterpreted facts. He ingnored facts which doesn't support his version.
The better read then his book are the diaries of german general Gulder who was the head of Staff of Vermaht before and at beginning WW2.
Gulder never told such thing like "preventive war". He showed all process of preparation of the operation Barbarossa -the plan of attack on Soviet Union. It was implemented 2 years before accual attack on Soviet Union. No prevention just scheduled attack.


20 posted on 04/25/2005 6:40:24 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan
They wanted to build socialism in one country - Soviet Union.

Yeah, they wanted the entire world to be one country, called the Soviet Union.

21 posted on 04/25/2005 6:43:05 AM PDT by dfwgator (Minutemen: Just doing the jobs that American politicians won't do.)
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To: dfwgator

An obvious fact which is noteably missing in most articles or discussions about Lenin, Stalin and communism is that Communist Soviet Russia's emblem is the hammer and sickle crossed over the globe. This is not misleading, it is/was their goal.


22 posted on 04/25/2005 7:06:04 AM PDT by Auntie Toots (The GOP is still the best we've got))
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To: Auntie Toots

"This is not misleading, it is/was their goal."
Should read, "was/is their goal." The evil forces of communism are still very well represented throughout the world. And make no mistake about it, even in the United States.


23 posted on 04/25/2005 7:09:43 AM PDT by Auntie Toots (The GOP is still the best we've got))
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To: dfwgator

Stalin is bad enough person. We don't need to demonize him by hunging on him deeds which he didn't do. Like "Stalin killed 100 mlns". Under his orders it was killed and repressed many peoples but far beneath 100 mlns.
During his rule Soviet Union lost lot of people in WW2. But it is Hitler who responsible.
OR we have to blame british, french or polish goverments of those time for losses which those countries underwent of hitlerites.

Archives open now. We can read and learn truth. I think that if we lie about even so bad person as Stalin then we go against truth and diminish ourselves to him.


24 posted on 04/25/2005 7:13:48 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: Auntie Toots

emblem is the hammer and sickle crossed over the globe.==

It is not exactly true. Hammer and sickle crossed over contour of Soviet Union borders on EuroAsian continent pictured on globe.

Why to distort truth? To make it more dreadful then in reality? It is deadful already.

But as result you make laugh of yourself. Anyone who saw Soviet emblem tell you that you distort truth. They will get you so easy.


25 posted on 04/25/2005 7:20:45 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan

Oh I don't doubt that that Hitler had planned for war with Soviet Union, although his entire timetable was moved up when the West actually kept it's word by going to war over Poland, when they didn't over Czechoslovakia ( a much better strategic move ). But clearly Stalin was certainly ready to begin expanding the Soviet Union, once he felt strong enough. Starting with the Finn's, and making demands on Poland, and Romania. Between Nazi Germany and Soviet Union it was just a question of which snake would try to swallow the other one first....


26 posted on 04/25/2005 8:53:12 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: Kozak

But clearly Stalin was certainly ready to begin expanding the Soviet Union, once he felt strong enough. ==

Yeah yeah. And Stalin was bad enough that he eated alive orfans on breakfast.

As I said that Stalin already dead and he is enough bad person so you may not demonize him ever further.
I know it is politcorrrectness to demonize Stalin further. But still it is like to "kick dead lion". He is already dead so can't bite you.


27 posted on 04/25/2005 9:18:49 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan; Kozak; dfwgator
Is that why Stalin tried to help Reds take over Spain and succeeded in helping them take over China? Is that why he funded CPUSA subversion in America?

Claiming that Stalin rejected World Revolution outright is basically a Troskyite charge.

The eradication of all nations and religions in a one-world order is one of the cornerstones of Marxism. Stalinists sought to achieve this through conquest by the Soviet "dictatorship of the Proletariat" while the exiled Trotsky, not as motivated by loyalty to his nemesis Stalin, promoted continuous social revolution all around the world.

Trotskyites always try to claim that Trotsky was the true successor of Lenin, but Stalinism is closer to Leninism. Lenin treated Socialists who wouldn't tow the party line the same way Stalin treated Trotskyites.

"Socialism in one country" was more about proving to the world that socialism could work. Trotskyites like to claim that the USSR collapsed only because real communism has never been tried.

28 posted on 04/25/2005 4:02:11 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Kozak

Stalin figured it would have been 1943 before the Soviets were ready to begin an offensive war. He was placating Hitler to try to avoid provoking him in the meantime. That's why he got caught with his pants down in 1941. But by 1943, if Hitler had not struck first, Stalin would have.


29 posted on 04/25/2005 4:04:52 PM PDT by dfwgator (Minutemen: Just doing the jobs that American politicians won't do.)
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To: RusIvan
Why did he invade Finland? Was this all part of "socialism in one country?" You should be more cautious about believing Soviet slogans. They are intended to deceive.

The Soviet Union never abandoned its long range goal of world domination, the only question was a tactical one of how to achieve this.

30 posted on 04/25/2005 4:05:59 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Why did he invade Finland? Was this all part of "socialism in one country?" ===

WHY? It was preparation of world war. He wanted to move border somewhat farther of Peterburg. He decided to do this on account of Finns. Since those Finns was one of few nations collaborated with commies before.
It was done as everything done by Stalin the dictator. It was unjust.
But in frames of discussion of Did he want or not to export socialism I rather say he didn't since his enemy Trotskii who was ideological exporter.


31 posted on 04/25/2005 11:43:48 PM PDT by RusIvan
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To: Lukasz; Tailgunner Joe

FDR was one of our most incompetent Presidents. And the time of his administration had to be THE all time low in terms of the political intelligence quotient of the majority of the US population. That they kept reelecting the fool attests to a particularly dark and dumb chapter in our history. Shameful, utterly shameful.


32 posted on 04/28/2005 3:52:35 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

RE: And in the chaos that a general war in Asia would create, the breeding ground for communist revolutions would be expanded. To help seal this likelihood, Stalin signed a non-aggression pact with Japan in April 1941.

This is key. The Vietnam War, really was one of Stalin's ugly babies! That we CHOSE not to win it, demonstrates just how strategically stupid the political mainstream was in this country throughout most of the 20th century.


33 posted on 04/28/2005 3:55:27 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: RusIvan

RE: They wanted to build socialism in one country - Soviet Union.

Well then, why did they occupy half of Europe for a number of decades? You know, that Warsaw Pact thingey?


34 posted on 04/28/2005 3:58:32 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: RusIvan; Tailgunner Joe; lizol

That conflicts with the dry, boring, but extremely enlightening account written by Hans Ulrich Rudel, based on some of the first Luftwaffe recon flights to occur into the USSR after the onset of Barbarossa. It was evident based on the staging of materiel, men and fortifications (or lack thereof), that Stalin had been readying a serious offensive along two alignments - along the Danube Corridor, and, along the Moscow-Berlin one. Stalin's biggest mistake was his underestimation of the ability of the materiel deficient Germans to take Blitzkrieg to a whole new level, penetrating deep into the USSR with minimal to non existent logistical support. Of course, ultimately, the Nazis were forced to retreat or were simply cut off and destroyed since their hastily assembled offensive was unsustainable. So in the end, Stalin's lack of preparations for a defensive war, in favor of his preps for a major breakout into the heart of Europe, was not an ultimate disaster. No one can invade Russia without amazing logistics and hope to succeed. In the end, Stalin's push Westward was only really delayed by 18 months.


35 posted on 04/28/2005 4:07:39 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: GOP_1900AD
Stalin's invasion of Finland which RusIvan called "preparations for world war" also show that Stalin had every intention of pursuing war against the west even before he was ever attacked by Hitler.
36 posted on 04/28/2005 4:12:10 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: GOP_1900AD

Well then, why did they occupy half of Europe for a number of decades? You know, that Warsaw Pact thingey?==

To counterbalance Nato which was created before Warsaw Pact. After one bloody war commies wanted to create defense against possible another.
At least that system plus nuclier weaponry kept peace in Europe for 50 years.


37 posted on 04/29/2005 3:07:52 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Stalin's invasion of Finland which RusIvan called "preparations for world war" also show that Stalin had every intention of pursuing war against the west even before he was ever attacked by Hitler.==

Finland is one of the nation which collaborated with bolshevicks in 1920th. (Another example: baltic nations.)
Finns could grab in 1920th Karella Ismus (I hope I prononce right) and town Vyborg. This territory wasn't finnish. Bolshevicks gave it to them in 1920th as trade-off because they seeked the finish support for bolshevick power.
In 1940 Stlin decided to took given back to mov eborder west from town Peterburg. Finns refused then war began.

West is Germany, France, Italy, Britain, Spain.
Others are EAST. The bunch of countries which interacted with Russian Empire later Soviet Union.

IMO you consider those countries of eastern Europe as innocents.
But they don't. They collaborated in bolshevick revolt in 1917. Thier ethnic members participated in bolshevick party and even more numerious in Civil War 1917-22 against russian White Movement.
What they got later from hands of Stalin was well earned in 1920.


38 posted on 04/29/2005 3:18:33 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: RusIvan

Oh, come on now. What, did the Kremlin invision something like Adenaur, Heath and Dulles, with their pens drawn as swords, attempting to succeed where Napoleon failed? Are you serious? NATO the hegemon - ooooh, ooooh, oooh! What bullies! What conquerors! /sarcasm


39 posted on 04/29/2005 10:41:35 AM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: RusIvan
At least that system plus nuclier weaponry kept peace in Europe for 50 years.

Wrong. It kept the whole world at war for fifty years with a nuclear EVIL EMPIRE, including repeated Soviet invasions of Eastern Europe to quell slave uprisings. We should have nuked the Soviet genocide machine out of existence before they ever got nukes. MAD was a liberal's dream - a no-win war.

40 posted on 04/29/2005 3:08:29 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: GOP_1900AD

Western Europe got The Marshall Plan. Eastern Europe got The Marshall Stalin Plan.


41 posted on 04/29/2005 3:10:32 PM PDT by dfwgator (Minutemen: Just doing the jobs that American politicians won't do.)
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To: RusIvan
Germany smuggled Lenin into Russia in order to topple the czars. I guess they were also "collaborators" then with the Bolsheviks and all deserved to be swallowed by communism.

I guess the fact that the Finnish White Guard fought and won against the Soviet communists in 1918 does not excuse them from guilt the way the struggle of the White Russians proves that every last Russian is completely innocent in your mind.

Yes of course I disagree with your pronouncements regarding who is guilty and deserving of communist slavery. Is it on account of their victimization of the poor innocent Russians who had absolutely nothing to do with Bolshevism that you seek revenge on all those who helped topple the Czardom?

I don't believe in collective guilt, nor do I believe that anyone ever anywhere for any reason deserves to live in communist slavery, including Russians.

42 posted on 04/29/2005 3:24:28 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I don't believe in collective guilt, nor do I believe that anyone ever anywhere for any reason deserves to live in communist slavery, including Russians.===

I agree with taht too. And I never thought that anyone russian is innocent. I just thought that russians and nonrussian citizens are all guilty of communism.
I'm totallyagainst that ALL guilt of communism someone pins ONLY on russians!


43 posted on 04/30/2005 1:59:47 AM PDT by RusIvan
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To: dfwgator

Oh man, that's a good one. I'll have to put that into my repetoir of one liners! ;)


44 posted on 05/02/2005 3:08:00 PM PDT by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: RusIvan

Oh my god, this just shows just how stupid you Russians are... Viipuri (Vyborg in Russian) was always Finnish since its foundation till 1940 and again in 1941-44. Sometimes it had been controlled or occupied by Russia, but it had always been Finnish. Russia never “gave” the Finnish part of the Karelian Isthmus to Finland, it was already a part of an independent Finland since 1917.

In 1939 Stalin demanded areas of Finland that had NEVER been a part of the Soviet Union, but the Finns refused. Had they accepted though, Finland’s fate would’ve been the same of the Baltic states. Stalin tried to force that fate on the Finns anyway, but the Finns won a defensive victory in both of their wars against Russia during WWII and kept their independence.

Get your facts right and learn some proper English, ignorant Russkie.


45 posted on 12/01/2010 4:47:08 AM PST by FulmenTheFinnish
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