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Was assault-weapon ban a dud? (no rise in weapons sales or crime after its expiration)
IHT/NYT ^ | April 25, 2005 | Deborah Sontag

Posted on 04/24/2005 2:28:30 PM PDT by FairOpinion

Despite dire predictions that America's streets would be awash in military-style guns, the expiration of the decade-long assault weapons ban in September has not set off a sustained surge in the weapons' sales, gun makers and sellers say. It also has not caused any noticeable increase in gun crime in the past seven months, according to several city police departments.

The uneventful expiration of the assault weapons ban did not surprise gun owners, nor did it surprise some advocates of gun control. Rather, it underscored what many of them had said all along: that the ban was porous - so porous that assault weapons remained widely available throughout their prohibition.

Assault weapons account for a small fraction of gun crimes: about 2 percent, according to most studies, and no more than 8 percent. But they have been used in many high-profile shooting sprees.

Gun crime has plummeted since the early 1990's. But a study for the National Institute of Justice said that it could not "clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence."

(Excerpt) Read more at iht.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: assaultweapons; awb; ban; banglist; jointhenra
Do you think they will actually figure out it's the people, not the guns, that are the problem?
1 posted on 04/24/2005 2:28:33 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion

"It also has not caused any noticeable increase in gun crime in the past seven months, according to several city police departments."

I seriously doubt that anyone here is going to be surprised by this.

Although I don't guess that we'll be able to restrain ourselves from some "I told you so"'s


2 posted on 04/24/2005 2:30:02 PM PDT by Sofa King (MY rights are not subject to YOUR approval.)
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To: FairOpinion
Not if this line is any indication:

"... the ban was porous - so porous that assault weapons remained widely available throughout their prohibition."
3 posted on 04/24/2005 2:30:32 PM PDT by Terpfen (New Democrat Party motto: les enfant terribles)
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To: FairOpinion

A longer version of the article at the NYT, but I posted this one, because you can read this article without registering.

The link to the NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/24/national/24guns.html?ei=5094&en=0e8529cfd37fccb0&hp=&ex=1114315200&oref=login&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&position=


4 posted on 04/24/2005 2:30:33 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion

previously posted in original form here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1389856/posts


5 posted on 04/24/2005 2:34:50 PM PDT by flashbunny
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To: FairOpinion

Perhaps Ms. Sontag could define "assult weapon" for us ?


6 posted on 04/24/2005 2:34:54 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Terpfen

Of course they have the use the excuse that the ban wasn't good enough, to try to pass even stricter bans, such as outlawing ALL guns.

What else would you expect from gungrabbers?

Here is a relevant article:

Police turn to judges over rising knife use

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/04/22/1007789-sun.html

The number of weapons offences involving knives in the city has spiked, prompting city police to prepare reports for Crown attorneys on the skyrocketing statistics. Police hope the reports, which will be provided when someone convicted of a weapon offence is sentenced, will show judges that the use of knives is a dangerous trend in London.

In 2003, London police investigated 165 offences involving knives, compared to 190 in 2004 and 63 in the first three months of this year -- a 50 per cent increase compared to the same time period in 2004.

====

As we keep saying, it's not the guns, it's the people.


7 posted on 04/24/2005 2:36:08 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: flashbunny

That's what happens, when they publish the same article with different titles in different papers.


8 posted on 04/24/2005 2:36:55 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion

We just wanted the freedom to buy an "assualt weapon."
We didn't say we actually wanted to buy one.
If they don't understand what freedom is, maybe they don't belong in this country; maybe they were fraudulently naturalized or violated their oath and should be deported.


9 posted on 04/24/2005 2:36:58 PM PDT by henderson field
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To: henderson field

"If they don't understand what freedom is, maybe they don't belong in this country; maybe they were fraudulently naturalized or violated their oath and should be deported."

I think that applies to most Democrats -- I would be happy to see them deported. Cuba comes to mind.


10 posted on 04/24/2005 2:38:10 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion

---as the WaPo admitted upon passage-"a symbolic gesture"---


11 posted on 04/24/2005 2:39:47 PM PDT by rellimpank (urbanites don' t understand the cultural deprivation of not being raised on a farm:NRABenefactor)
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To: FairOpinion

My .357 Python has no bayonet lug. The shame of it all.


12 posted on 04/24/2005 2:39:51 PM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: FairOpinion

It's hard to believe that it started in 1961 with T.J. Dodd and Emanual Cellar wanting a simple gun law that would..

Register all handguns, not rifles or shotguns.
Ban the import of 5 shot bolt action military rifles because they cut into the business of America's hunting rifle makers.


See how far we've come since then!


13 posted on 04/24/2005 3:07:44 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: FairOpinion
As we keep saying, it's not the guns, it's the people.

Demographics has always had a larger bearing on crimes of violence than we'd like to believe. Thomas Sowell has written extensively on "crime waves" that peaked just as the most-susceptible youths were coming into their most-productive criminal years (about the age of 19-25, if I recall).

Besides this, another very interesting theory has been put forth to explain in part why crime has subsided. And it has nothing to do with gun laws. Rather, abortion laws:

The Miracle That Wasn't

14 posted on 04/24/2005 3:08:22 PM PDT by logician2u
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To: FairOpinion

Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars. (THR)


15 posted on 04/24/2005 3:14:39 PM PDT by umgud (FR, NASCAR, NRA, GOP)
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To: logician2u

I will have to think a bit about that article. Thanks for posting the link.


16 posted on 04/24/2005 3:15:12 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: ConservativeMind

You are welcome. (And it does inspire thought . .)


17 posted on 04/24/2005 3:16:02 PM PDT by logician2u
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To: FairOpinion

Maybe they've figured out that when Americans sense a threat to the Second Amendment -- THAT is when gun sales go up.


18 posted on 04/24/2005 3:23:08 PM PDT by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Perhaps Ms. Sontag could define "assult weapon" for us?

I know some people that think there are assault weapon sling shots. /sarcasm (but not by far).

There are an amazing number of people who are TOTALLY ignorant about firearms. I know that I am in the GI issue weapons arena, but I admit it!

19 posted on 04/24/2005 3:25:54 PM PDT by Cobra64
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I bought a VEPR K in 5.45mm with several 30 round mags WHILE the AWB was in action. It was purchased through an FFL, no gun show loop holes involved. Come to think of it I bought my M1A during the ban too.

Who knew the bayonets were more dangerous that the ammo? Only libs and RINO's. The rest of us know that it's not the tool, it's the thugs and criminals that wield it with no regard to humanity that is the problem.


20 posted on 04/24/2005 3:26:22 PM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
they cut into the business of America's hunting rifle makers.

And as much as I respect Bill Ruger, I'd still like to know the whole story involving him, former Senator Dennis DeConcini and the Mini-14 vis-a-vis the AWB---

21 posted on 04/24/2005 3:28:45 PM PDT by rellimpank (urbanites don' t understand the cultural deprivation of not being raised on a farm:NRABenefactor)
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To: FairOpinion
Do you think they will actually figure out it's the people, not the guns, that are the problem?

Nope crime was never the issue, gun confiscation was.

The AW ban was never intended to be anything other than purely cosmetic, the liberals knew it when they passed it. But it brought attention to the anti-gun crowd, filled their coffers with funds and was designed to set the old media agenda for more draconian gun control to follow. Look at it as setting the stage for demonizing first 'bad black guns' then all guns. If you think back you will recall many of the gun control supporters said as much -- even that esteemed Dem Senator from CA who said she would have banned them all, but couldn't do it right now. Operative phrase 'right now'.

Then came 1994, the elections were a Democrat disaster and the AW ban was the cause. A bridge too far if you will.

Never lose sight that liberals need to disarm the public. It's simple really, they need to separate you from any responsibility for your actions. People control is the goal, gun control is just one prong of attack to achieve that end.

You might also want to note that CCW is a success in nearly 40 states, crime goes down. But not in CA where they continue to ban guns and crime goes up. Sooner or later the people in CA and other gun ban happy states will see the light. If they don't move.

22 posted on 04/24/2005 3:29:05 PM PDT by Tarpon
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To: FairOpinion
Do you think they will actually figure out it's the people, not the guns, that are the problem?

It is not just the people, it is people who have been indoctrinated by the liberals to the woderful non-judgmental, moral relativism that teaches them their whole lives that the only thing right or wrong is what is right or wrong to you.

23 posted on 04/24/2005 3:31:11 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: FairOpinion

I wish they would! People kill people not guns. If you laid a loaded weapon on your coffee table in your home and left it for one hundred years and nobody touched it, nothing would happen.


24 posted on 04/24/2005 3:36:53 PM PDT by JOE43270 (JOE43270 America voted and said we are One Nation Under God with Liberty and Justice for All.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
My .357 Python has no bayonet lug. The shame of it all.

Gee, that's strange. I saw it offered in Brownells for my son's assault sling-shot last month.

25 posted on 04/24/2005 3:53:48 PM PDT by Cobra64
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To: FairOpinion
as I explained to my mother.....

Anything over a .22cal round is armour piercing, and even a .22 can kill.

Secondly, I made her read the original bill, and see examples. She *the libertarian pacifist that she is* even understood that it was meant to ban the "scary guns" only.

Lastly, I mentioned that if a criminal wants a gun, they will get it, regardless of laws on the books.

26 posted on 04/24/2005 3:54:28 PM PDT by Maigrey (Prayer Warriors for Malachi Whitlock http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1356532/posts)
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To: FairOpinion

I'm alway laugh when liberals are amazed when gun law retirements don't increase the crime rate. I'm sure many libs think that there is a direct correlation between the amount of guns and crime. I live in a part of the country, the midwest, where even most Democrats are gun lovers. If Left Coast and East Coast libs knew how many guns midwesterners have, they would most likely vomit up their soyburgers. And guess what? The crime rates around here are much lower than the big liberal cities.


27 posted on 04/24/2005 3:55:13 PM PDT by driftless ( For life-long happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: All

Again, more of the lame stream media garbage....article says crime went down in the 1990's, suggesting the gun control laws had something to do with it, when actually it was the beginning of the three stikes and your out laws, that really lowered crime rates.

Of course the ever wrong, disgraced liberal press never mentions that fact....why??? Oh that's right, it was because they were rabidly against the three strikes laws.

So now, showing there true lying colors, they attempt to link gun control (that has never worked) with a reduction in crime, when in reality it was the three strike laws.

Toooooo funnny. What a bunch of morons and losers.


28 posted on 04/24/2005 3:57:48 PM PDT by OhhTee5
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To: umgud
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars."

Yes, and the extended magazine ban decreased crime just about as much as limiting cans of beer to 6 ounces would have decreased alcholism.

It seems that liberals have to "do something" even if they don't understand the nature of the problem.

29 posted on 04/24/2005 4:24:40 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: rellimpank

>>>And as much as I respect Bill Ruger, I'd still like to know the whole story involving him, former Senator Dennis DeConcini and the Mini-14 vis-a-vis the AWB---<<<


could you explain this further for me? i just bought a mini-14 and you have me curious...


30 posted on 04/24/2005 5:01:07 PM PDT by sdpatriot (remember waco and ruby ridge)
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To: FairOpinion
"Gun crime has plummeted since the early 1990's. But a study for the National Institute of Justice said that it could not "clearly credit the ban with any of the nation's recent drop in gun violence."

Gee, wasn't that about the time the first conceal carry laws went into effect?

31 posted on 04/24/2005 5:15:31 PM PDT by yooper (If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there......)
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To: sdpatriot
--about all I know is that:

a) DeConcini was one of the original movers and shakers on the AWB import ban under Bush 1 and then, IIRC, on the next one

b)Ruger put a manufacturing facility in Arizona about this time,

c)Ruger was quoted in one of the gun magazines as saying"we've got to save our little gun",

d)the Mini-14 has escaped any bans while the AR-15 went in,

and e)???????????

32 posted on 04/24/2005 5:24:16 PM PDT by rellimpank (urbanites don' t understand the cultural deprivation of not being raised on a farm:NRABenefactor)
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To: rellimpank

---and Ruger attempted to do some legislative trading by supporting the large cap mag ban at one point , also---


33 posted on 04/24/2005 5:26:47 PM PDT by rellimpank (urbanites don' t understand the cultural deprivation of not being raised on a farm:NRABenefactor)
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To: rellimpank

Bill Ruger didn't know when to keep his mouth shut. It's the same as when a Freeper says, "I don't know why they are after the Barrett .50 when my [fill in the blank] does as much damage". He didn't understand why they wanted to ban the guns when all they had to do was ban the high capacity magazines.
Bottom line is the libs wrote the law to ban military guns and the Mini-14 didn't look like a current military weapon no more than the M1A did.


34 posted on 04/24/2005 5:35:49 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: FairOpinion

Please join the NRA and if you are already a member, put the initials in your tagline. We're going to need all the members we can to stop the next ban.


35 posted on 04/24/2005 5:38:05 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Shooter 2.5

Fortunately the NRA membership is at an all time high, but you are right, it can never be too high, more members allow them to do more. Without them we may have lost our 2nd Amendment rights long ago.


"The NRA is riding a wave of success, and membership is at an all-time high of about 4 million."

http://www.theiowachannel.com/news/4385998/detail.html


36 posted on 04/24/2005 6:18:24 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion

It wasn't a dud. It cost gun grabbing DemocRATS control of the House, according to Bill Clinton. As much as I hated it, that alone made it worth the infringement on the RKBA.


37 posted on 04/24/2005 6:21:04 PM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: FairOpinion

It wasn't a dud. I twas a lie. Just another lefty lie!


38 posted on 04/24/2005 6:43:41 PM PDT by America's Resolve (Liberal Democrats are liars, cheats and thieves with no morals, scruples, ethics or honor!)
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To: Shooter 2.5; rellimpank

thanks to both of you.

seems any common military ammo is also on the hit list... my guess it is because the rounds are cheap and plentiful. if they can't keep the guns away.. maybe they can control the ammo... ?

and who would even want a semi if you can't have at least a 30 rnd clip? might as well go for a bolt then...

it's all hog wash..

btw... the mini was my anniversary present from the hubby this year! LOL


39 posted on 04/24/2005 6:54:10 PM PDT by sdpatriot (remember waco and ruby ridge)
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To: FairOpinion

I just got a cool new nail gun and a compressor. If that counts. :o)


40 posted on 04/24/2005 7:20:26 PM PDT by ezoeni
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To: FairOpinion

"Actually we should have banned pinocle and golf also, and the law would have worked great!" S/Off


41 posted on 04/24/2005 9:02:50 PM PDT by Waco
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To: FairOpinion

bump


42 posted on 04/24/2005 9:16:44 PM PDT by GOPJ (Liberals haven't had a new idea in 40 years.)
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To: Shooter 2.5
"Bill Ruger didn't know when to keep his mouth shut."

It's much worse than that. All of the major gun control legislation, including the GCA1968, were sponsored by the American arms industry. Each was supported by the industry and SAAMI as short sighted protectionism. Colt was not a member of SAAMI, Ruger was (and is). The GCA1968 was written by, and sponsored by SAAMI, then passed to Senator Thomas Dodd as a means to keep WWII surplus weapons from being imported and competing against the American arms industry. I have documentation if anyone is interested.

The "Assault Weapon" and "High Capacity Magazine Ban" restrictions were written by the National Shooting Sports foundation, the parent of SAAMI. Draft copies of the proposal were circulated within the arms and ammunition industry before it was handed to Senator Finstein. I saw copies of them. Does anyone really believe that the senator from California wrote them? The Mini-14 was deemed a good gun and the Colt AR-15 a bad gun, simple by virtue of SAAMI membership. The guns are identical in function. The true purpose was to keep SKS's and semi-auto AK-47's from being imported. None of the SAAMI members sold weapons with 20 or 30 shot magazines.

Their short sightedness let the genie out of the bottle and they now don't have the means to put it back.

43 posted on 04/24/2005 10:16:28 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: sdpatriot; rellimpank

See post #43


44 posted on 04/24/2005 10:21:34 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: Buffalo Head; Shooter 2.5; sdpatriot
--thanks-

-I have realized since the '60's that there is always more than meets the eye on any of this type of legislation.

Bill Ruger had sense enough to stay as tied into national politics as was necessary--after all, his original partner-Alex Sturm-was married to Theodore Roosevelt's granddaughter---

45 posted on 04/25/2005 4:50:41 AM PDT by rellimpank (urbanites don' t understand the cultural deprivation of not being raised on a farm:NRABenefactor)
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