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The Titanic Numbers Game (Do Titanic Statistics Prove Class Warfare)
The Christian Boys' and Men's Titanic Society ^ | 2004 | Douglas W. Phillips

Posted on 04/26/2005 4:21:50 PM PDT by PioneerDrive

as Titanic a symbol of noblesse oblige or elitism? Were her final hours marked by male chivalry or by class warfare? In recent years, the trend among some authors and film producers has been to minimize reports from Titanic survivors in favor of a historiography predicated on raw statistics. But do statistics comparing the percentage of Titanic deaths by class prove a deliberate attempt on the part of crew and first class passengers to withhold lifeboats from the poor? It is true that more third class passengers died than first class, but what does that mean? Are the statistics, in and of themselves, evidence of class warfare? Is the disproportionate death ratio between first and third class passengers a function of the location of the third class deep in the bowels of the boat, of their disbelief that Titanic was sinking, of the poor communication that passed through the ship, or of a deliberate attempt to give preferential treatment to the rich? Were there other factors at work, factors of which we are not even aware? The raw statistical data cannot answer these questions. Undaunted by the need for accuracy, many popular authors continue to present class-based statistics as proof positive for pet theories which claim to disprove the numerous accounts of survivors. Those personal accounts have established that the distinguishing characteristic demonstrated by crew and passengers alike during the final hours of Titanic’s life was bravery and sacrifice. In their efforts to castigate the Edwardian age and to dispel the notion of male chivalry aboard the Titanic, these critics frequently base their case on a logical fallacy — the notion that statistics prove causality. Wyn Craig Wade, author of The Titanic: End of a Dream, actually mocks the Reverend Eakin for delivering a sermon in which the minister asserted that during Titanic’s final hours “there was no class distinction on the ground of wealth or any other of those barriers that we in our folly have raised so high.... The prospect of death leveled all distinction.” Wade’s rebuttal? “The extent of Reverend Eakin’s own “folly” would stand revealed when the statistics of survivors were published.” In his book Titanic, James Cameron jokes about inserting Marxist class warfare theory into his best-selling movie. Cameron portrays the rich bribing their way to freedom, the crew deliberately preventing the poor from reaching safety, and Titanic officers killing a third class passenger. There is no credible evidence that any of these outrages took place aboard Titanic. Good Hollywood — bad history. Yet in interview after interview, Mr. Cameron has insisted that every aspect of the film was presented with the utmost consideration for historical accuracy. How does Mr. Cameron justify his “neo-Marxist” interpretation? Statistics. When asked about class differences aboard the Titanic, Mr. Cameron frequently compares the number of third class deaths with first class deaths. To the uninitiated these statistics might sound convincing, but consider the following statistics from the Titanic disaster:

The overall death toll was 9 men for every 1 woman. By percentage, third class women did far better than first class men. More than 5 times as many third class men were saved as second class men. (This was true even though second class men had better access to the lifeboats.) 75 third class men lived, 57 first class men lived, and 14 second class men lived. In retrospect, second class men had a 1 in 11 chance of survival, but third class men had a 1 in 5 chance of survival. Almost twice as many male crew members died as did third class males. The male to female death ratio for crew members was a whopping 233 to 1. Obviously, further inquiry is necessary to give meaning to these statistics. Unlike many of the third class passengers who arrived late on the launch decks, first class men and crew had ample opportunities to board the lifeboats, but either chose not to board or were actually prevented from doing so. It is helpful, for example, to know that, of the first class men and officers who were saved, several survived, not because they were given lifeboat seats, but because of God’s providential intervention as they flailed in the water. Colonel Archibald Gracie and Second Officer Lightoller, who held onto an overturned collapsible they found in the water, are just two examples. Notwithstanding the discrepancies in the death toll between first, second, and third class passengers, there is no credible evidence that first class passengers were given priority seating rights. To the contrary, there are numerous accounts of first class passengers giving up their seats and assisting third class passengers into lifeboats. In fact, the issue of class distinction was raised by passengers of different social status at least twice as the boats were being loaded and was specifically rejected as a basis for preferential treatment. A careful look at the historical record reveals that several factors contributed to whether or not a person was given a seat on the lifeboat.

Gender: The guiding principle was “women and children first.” This was the unquestioned rule. It was obeyed. Women were given seating on a first come first serve basis. First class passenger cabins were most conveniently located near the lifeboats. Most third class passengers were asleep in the bowels of the ship at the time Titanic hit the iceberg. Because of their location, news of the danger took much longer to reach them. After the order for women and children was rigorously applied, several secondary considerations were, on a boat-by-boat basis, to play a role in determining which men, if any, would get a lifeboat seat. Secondary Considerations included the following: The Need for Crew to Direct and Row the Boats: It was standard practice to place a small compliment of crew aboard each lifeboat to direct the passengers and to row for the women. In some instances where no crew was immediately available, male passengers were placed in boats as substitutes. The Absence of Women and Children: The officers charged with the responsibility of launching the lifeboats were racing against the clock. In those instances where women and children could not be located at the time of the launching, some crew members opted to place men in the boats. In the final analysis, class-based statistical comparisons by themselves are of limited value in determining whether or not first class passengers were deliberately given preferential access to lifeboats in the early morning hours of April 15, 1912. Evidence based on eyewitness accounts and testimonies all seem to validate the statement of Reverend Eakin, that when it came time to load the lifeboats, “there was no class distinction on the ground of wealth or any other of those barriers that we in our folly have raised so high. ... The prospect of death leveled all distinction.”

Doug Phillips is the president of CBMTS


TOPICS: Editorial; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: jamescameron
For anyone who is interested.
1 posted on 04/26/2005 4:21:55 PM PDT by PioneerDrive
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To: PioneerDrive

very interesting


2 posted on 04/26/2005 4:23:14 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: PioneerDrive

That is a great analysis and to think that all these years, I have been duped into believing the Class Bashing Propaganda of Marxist Hollywood.


3 posted on 04/26/2005 4:25:34 PM PDT by spanalot
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To: spanalot

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Old British society was extremely classist but people aren't the same in the midst of a tragedy.


4 posted on 04/26/2005 4:27:04 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: PioneerDrive
Paragraphs are a tool of the bourgeois oppressors!
5 posted on 04/26/2005 4:28:26 PM PDT by AmishDude (Join the AD fan club: "lol, Good one AD."--gopwinsin04; "Hey, AmishDude, you are right!"-FairOpinion)
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To: PioneerDrive

class warfare


6 posted on 04/26/2005 4:30:51 PM PDT by rave123
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To: AmishDude

Sorry about the paragraphs. It's a lot easier to read if you follow the link.


7 posted on 04/26/2005 4:32:11 PM PDT by PioneerDrive (Don't fence me in.)
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To: PioneerDrive

Thanks... I've always felt Cameron was a bit over the top when showing the wealthy as evil. (They must have voted Republican.) Such rubish.


8 posted on 04/26/2005 4:38:56 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs a soldier)
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To: PioneerDrive
I have yet to see Titanic, and now have every reason not to.
9 posted on 04/26/2005 4:40:27 PM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: PioneerDrive

I think the big paragraphs got better treatment than the smaller paragraphs.


10 posted on 04/26/2005 4:48:54 PM PDT by digger48
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To: randog

I've had a copy of it since it came out on VHS,

never seen it.


11 posted on 04/26/2005 4:50:26 PM PDT by digger48
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To: cyborg
>>I think the truth is somewhere in between. Old British society was extremely classist but people aren't the same in the midst of a tragedy.<<

Yes. . .but being a person of high class the British man would not enter the boats and instead, adhere to the women and children edict. To scurry on-board would have been viewed as a boorish act, the actions of a coward, worthy of scorn.

No doubt some wouldn't mind that shame, but more than many did mind and acted as gentlemen should. . .they acted with class.
12 posted on 04/26/2005 5:10:33 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: cyborg

Not arguing, just making a comment.


13 posted on 04/26/2005 5:11:41 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: PioneerDrive
I would believe that there were good and bad among all passenger classes on the Titanic.
14 posted on 04/26/2005 5:13:13 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Mesocons for Rice '08)
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To: Gunrunner2

I didn't take it as such :-)


15 posted on 04/26/2005 5:13:39 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: PioneerDrive

The best part is watching Leonardo drift into the fridged depths.


16 posted on 04/26/2005 5:17:09 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: cyborg

Cheers.


17 posted on 04/26/2005 5:20:04 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: Gunrunner2
People in our post socialist world seem to have forgotten that unlike many of the dirt poor, the Old Money (Especially Britain) had extremely high standards of personal conduct. Standards that were held above life itself.

Now, "Old Money" refers to Ted Kennedy and John Kerry. Proving, money alone can't by class...but it does buy a case of the clap.
18 posted on 04/26/2005 5:21:53 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: Dead Dog

>>Now, "Old Money" refers to Ted Kennedy and John Kerry. Proving, money alone can't by class...but it does buy a case of the clap.<<

Bwahahahaha. . .and now I have to clean coke off my keyboard, thank you very much.

;-)


19 posted on 04/26/2005 5:23:50 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: Gunrunner2
Another point on the old upper class, they were raised from birth to be leaders. Effective Leaders. For an military that sold commissions, the Brits had some amazing officers.

Good leadership demands character. Something funny happened on the way to Chappaquiddick.
20 posted on 04/26/2005 5:25:50 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: PioneerDrive

Very interesting; thanks for posting!


21 posted on 04/26/2005 5:26:35 PM PDT by Nea Wood (I considered atheism but there weren't enough holidays.)
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To: Dead Dog

Yes, indeed. Odd, really.


22 posted on 04/26/2005 5:27:06 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: Gunrunner2
"Bwahahahaha. . .and now I have to clean coke off my keyboard, thank you very much.

Just roll up a dollar bill and snort it off. ;0)

23 posted on 04/26/2005 5:35:58 PM PDT by cibco (Xin Loi... Saddam)
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To: cibco

OOooohhhh. . . .so THAT'S what they meant by "New Coke"


24 posted on 04/26/2005 6:07:51 PM PDT by Gunrunner2
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To: PioneerDrive

God sank the Titanic,
He can sink your canoe.
Whether you're rich or poor
Whether you're young or you're old



The dark water is deep,
and that water is cold
God sank the Titanic,
He can sink your canoe.


--old Bluegrass song


25 posted on 04/26/2005 8:12:55 PM PDT by Wisconsin
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To: Gunrunner2

My first thought... ;0)


26 posted on 04/26/2005 8:16:19 PM PDT by cibco (Xin Loi... Saddam)
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To: zot

Ping


27 posted on 04/27/2005 4:53:04 AM PDT by GreyFriar (3rd Armored Division -- Spearhead)
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To: PioneerDrive
Is the disproportionate death ratio between first and third class passengers a function of the location of the third class deep in the bowels of the boat,

Well, it's hard to deny that the bottom of the boat sinks first. That's another reason to be rich before booking an ocean cruise, so you can afford a stateroom up on deck.

That may sound callous, but sea travel has always involved preferential treatment for those who paid well. The same goes for other forms of travel.

I don't get jealous of the people flying first class when I'm stuck back in tourist class, I expect that when I buy the cheap seats.

28 posted on 04/27/2005 6:46:56 AM PDT by Kenton ("Life is tough, and it's really tough when you're stupid" - Damon Runyon)
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping.

"Class warfare" is Marxist spin on almost everything, and it is blatantly obvious in this movie.

These statistics could be honestly presented as percentages, rather than raw numbers. I would like to see a table showing the total in each group and the percent that survived. Eleven groups would do it -- a 3 x 3 table of men, women, children -- in first class, second class, third class -- plus the totals and percentages of officers and crew members.


29 posted on 04/27/2005 1:08:46 PM PDT by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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