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Israel And Freedom For Jonathan Pollard
Jerusalem Post / Israel News Agency ^ | April 28, 2005 | Caroline Glick / Joel Leyden

Posted on 04/28/2005 1:50:07 PM PDT by IsraelBeach

Israel And Freedom For Jonathan Pollard

By Caroline Glick The Jerusalem Post - With INA Publisher's Note Below

Jerusalem ---- April 28......Jonathan Pollard is one of the most polarizing figures of our times. Pollard, a former intelligence analyst in US naval intelligence, has now served 20 years of a life imprisonment sentence following his conviction for transferring classified US intelligence materials relating to Arab ballistic missile and nonconventional weapons programs to Israel from May 1984 until his arrest in November 1985.

For his contribution to Israel's security and for his long suffering in prison, Israel considers Pollard a national hero. He is commonly considered the source of Israel's preparedness for the Iraqi missile attacks during the Gulf War. Israelis across the right-left and religious-secular divide are basically unified in their hope to greet Pollard in Israel as a free man. For many American Jews, Pollard is reviled as a traitor.

Since his arrest, a cloud of suspicion has hung over all Jews employed in the Pentagon, the State Department, the US military and intelligence services. Time after time, baseless allegations surface of American Jews spying for Israel. In spite of Israel's strategic alliance with the US, American intelligence agencies define Israel as a "country of concern" for intelligence breaches and American Jews are under constant, often malicious scrutiny. All a person has to do to expose the deep frustration of Washington Jews with the constant discrimination by intelligence agencies is mention the name "Pollard." Immediately he will be showered with bitter statements like, "If it weren't for that traitor, we wouldn't be in this position," and, "I hope he rots in jail."

For the past 12 years Pollard has been incarcerated in Butner Federal Prison in North Carolina. He was transferred to Butner from Marion Federal Prison in Illinois where he was held in a subterranean cell in solitary confinement for seven years. Pollard's treatment, like his life sentence, is unprecedented in the history of US espionage investigations.

Never has a spy in the employ of a friendly country received such a sentence. On average, spies working for countries considered US allies receive between 4-7 years in jail. Aldrich Ames, the most notorious spy in recent history, who as head of the CIA counter-intelligence department compromised all US intelligence emanating from the Soviet Union for over 15 years and caused the death of more than 10 US agents operating in the Soviet Union – while sentenced to life in prison – was never placed in solitary confinement for stretches comparable to Pollard.

I went to see Jonathan Pollard last week. During a two-and-a-half-hour meeting, we spoke at length about his espionage, the conditions of his imprisonment, his feelings toward the US, Israel, the Jewish people and his hopes for the future. Pollard is now 50 years old. He grew up in South Bend, Indiana. He studied political science, economics and classics at Stanford University and was studying towards a doctorate in military history at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts when he was recruited in 1979 by Naval Intelligence. Pollard first visited Israel in 1971 for a summer program at the Weitzman Institute.

He refers to his Jewish background as "modern-Orthodox, American style. The centrality of Israel for the Jewish people was emphasized." "I had thought constantly about aliya," he says, "But it's hard to pick up and leave the 'Golden Medina.' My parents are proud Americans. My father is a decorated Army officer. He carries a copy of the US Constitution in his pocket. But when I joined Naval Intelligence my father warned me that it's not a good place for a Jew. There is a lot of anti-Semitism there. But even when I saw it, I thought it would be better for me to stay."

Today at Butner, Pollard is employed as a window washer. His life is one of constant terror. "I will give you an impressionistic description of my life. It involves constant noise, constant violence; profanity – every conceivable type of profanity. There is no place to be quiet or to find quiet – to read. You really have to be disciplined not to be provoked. You need to be disciplined to see when a situation is getting out of hand and to get away as quickly as possible. I have to be ready if my door opens at 2 in the morning. "I live in a small room, not in a cell, with a roommate. My room is so small that when I sit on my bed and stretch out my arms I touch both of the walls. And it is impossible to lock the door. When I am not washing windows I spend my day reading and listening to the radio – to NPR and the BBC." The prison has television sets set up in common rooms for inmates. His fellow inmates include murderers, rapists, armed robbers, pedophiles and other violent criminals.

On September 11, Pollard was in the TV room, watching CNN. What did you feel when you saw the World Trade Center and the Pentagon attacked? "I felt sick to my stomach. The worst thing for me was that a lot of the Muslim inmates here greeted the attacks by saying Alla Akhbar and cheering." But why would it bother you to see the US under attack? After all, you betrayed this country. To this, Jonathan gave me a look of profound sadness and said, "I fell in love with two women – Israel and the US. It doesn't work in private life, and it doesn't work in politics. My reaction to September 11 was as an American. As an American, I believe that this country is guarding the gates of Western civilization from the barbarians."

In 1983, shortly after Israel and the US signed a memorandum on intelligence sharing, then deputy director of the CIA Admiral Bobby Ray Inman unilaterally breached the agreement by stopping all intelligence transfers to Israel on Arab and Muslim states not directly bordering Israel. This included Iraq, Iran, Libya, Tunis and Pakistan. Inman was hired after leaving the agency by a company called International Signal and Control. The company's owner, James Guerin, was imprisoned later for transferring military technology to Iraq and South Africa.

Pollard, who was privy to the now embargoed intelligence, believed that Israel faced the specter of chemical and biological warfare attacks from these countries. Pollard claims that he considered all legal venues for ending the embargo but felt that informing the media, testifying before Congress or involving the US Jewish leadership of the situation would all be ineffective. He claims also that "there was an incident during Operation Peace for the Galilee that provided me with my introduction to the US-Israel 'special relationship.' I saw the incredible cynicism with which the US views Israel. It flew in the face of everything that I thought was the point of the relationship. The way I viewed the world was destroyed. I had never before thought that my loyalties towards the US and Israel were in contradiction. But then I understood." What did you understand? "I understood that we are alone."

Pollard argues that his decision to spy for Israel, and thus betray the US, stemmed from his conviction that he "was preventing a second Holocaust." One can question whether it was necessary for him to prevent it personally, or whether he could simply have quit his position, informed the responsible Israel officials of the mounting dangers and let Israel – with its intelligence agencies and military -- contend with the issue as a sovereign state. But the fact is that Pollard chose himself for the task and Israel, too, in employing Pollard as its agent, chose him for the task.

Over the 18-month period that Pollard worked for Israel, he provided suitcases of documents to his handlers on a regular basis. Rafi Eitan, Israel's master spy who served as Pollard's chief handler from his position as head of the Office for Information Cooperation at the Israeli Embassy, told him that his information was discussed at cabinet meetings and Pollard understood that his main contractor was then Maj.-Gen. Ehud Barak, who then served as Commander of Military Intelligence. Yet, when Pollard was arrested, Israel did whatever it could to deny its connection to him. From the moment then prime minister Shimon Peres ordered embassy security officers to physically eject Pollard and his wife-at-the-time Anne from the embassy, Israel has done everything in its power to distance itself from Pollard.

It wasn't until 1995 that he was granted Israeli citizenship and it wasn't until 1998 that Israel officially recognized that Pollard was its agent. Binyamin Netanyahu was the only prime minister to have made a serious effort to get Pollard released. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has abjectly refused to take any action on Pollard's behalf.

For Pollard, who expected to be protected by Israel if caught, it is the treatment he has received from the Israeli government that surprises and disturbs him more than the harsh and disproportionate punishment that he has received from US authorities. "I had two particularly memorable terrible days since I was arrested. The first was when the FBI showed me transcripts of statements that Israeli officials made shortly after my arrest. It was clear that the Mossad had three goals. They wanted to put all the blame on the Office for Information Links and Rafi Eitan, they wanted to protect AIPAC at all costs and they wanted to bury me. It was the Mossad that was the source of all the disinformation about me and my character. The lies that I used cocaine and was a mercenary, selling secrets to countries other than Israel, it all came from them.

"Later, in 1995, a Mossad agent came here to see me and suggested that I kill myself. I said I would die for Israel not for some group of toadies. "The Israelis claimed that mine was a rogue operation. But this was a total lie. Not only did the senior political and military leadership know what was happening, Ariel Sharon tried to use me for his own ends. Rafi Eitan was Arik's man. And he asked me to collect political intelligence for Sharon – what people in Washington were saying about him and the like. I refused. "But what hurt me the most was when I saw the unclassified version of the Eban Report. [The Eban Report was a report of the Knesset's sub-committee on intelligence services investigation into the Pollard affair that was published in 1987.] It made me almost physically ill.

The report includes a summary of a midnight conversation between [the prime minister] Shimon Peres and [the US Secretary of State George] Schultz about a week after I was arrested. Schultz asked Peres to return the documents I took and Peres agreed but made Schultz promise that the documents wouldn't be used against me and Schultz agreed. "No one ever told me about this agreement. I could have used it in my defense.

It is the country's responsibility. It had standing before the court. Israel is the only country to participate in the prosecution of its own agent. Several years later [in 1990] Sharon attacked Yitzhak Shamir for going along with my abandonment. But that is what Sharon is doing now." Although sources close to Sharon claim that Pollard may be released on the sidelines of the destruction of the Jewish communities in Gaza and northern Samaria and the pullout of IDF forces from the areas, White House sources knew of no request on Sharon's part to release Pollard from prison. Ahead of Sharon's visit to the White House last spring, 112 Knesset members, including Sharon himself, signed a letter to President George W. Bush asking him to release Pollard from prison. Sharon refused to deliver the letter to Bush.

This month, ahead of Sharon's meeting with Bush at his ranch in Texas, all current and former Israel chief rabbis signed a letter to Bush requesting that he free Pollard. Again, Sharon refused to deliver the letter to Bush during his meeting. After meeting with Pollard, I contacted James Woolsey, the former director of the CIA. Woolsey told me that upon taking up his position in 1993 he reviewed Pollard's entire file carefully. "This man would not be my first candidate for clemency, but 20 years is a long time.

As a general proposition, one dimension of this is that a substantial penalty has been paid, so that the element of deterrence is dealt with. I do think there is a consideration here. Israel and the US, Australia, Japan, Poland and Britain are all in this war on terror together. We need to pay attention to the concerns of the citizens in fellow democracies. I would feel this way if it were Japanese espionage. We have to have a degree of sympathy for the sentiments of citizens in a fellow democracy." At the same time, Woolsey was quick to explain, "This is not a recommendation for clemency." Woolsey also stated that Pollard was not suspected of having transferred secrets to governments other than Israel. In his view "the heart of the matter" was the US fear that Israel's own intelligence apparatus would be penetrated by hostile governments and that as a result the materials Pollard transferred would be picked up. This, he explained, "would present a danger to the US ability to collect intelligence.

The fear was that the Israeli government itself might have been penetrated, not that Pollard gave the information to anyone else." When Pollard speaks of his future, he says that he has been training himself to go into a non-security related field if released from prison and most of his reading materials are scientific. "I have an interest in alternative energy sources to replace oil and on water desalination." Is there any reason that the US should worry about security damage you may cause if released from prison? "There is no substantive American worry regarding my release. My life has been destroyed so deterrence has been achieved. Nothing I know and certainly nothing I would ever do would be antithetical to US interests. The bottom line is, I want to come home so I can be with my wife, my people and my land."

In the days that have passed since the interview it occurred to me that the reprehensible behavior of the Israeli government in the Pollard affair tops that of all concerned parties – all of whom have behaved reprehensibly. Aside from the anti-Semites who take pleasure in spewing Jewish conspiracy theories, Israel was the only side that gained anything from Pollard's espionage. The US gained nothing and Pollard lost everything. In shirking its responsibility for Pollard, Israel paved the way for the entire story being blown out of all proportion by opportunistic enemies of Israel and American Jewry for two decades now.

If Israel had resolutely stood by Pollard, then the aspersions cast on Washington's Jews would be far more circumspect than they are today and the US would have seen that Israel is an ally to be reckoned with, not a doormat to be stepped on at will. Pessah is the holiday of freedom. But for a nation to be free it must take responsibility for its actions, no matter how grave those consequences may be. In shirking its responsibility a nation is doing more than casting out the unwanted weight. It is casting off its own ties to freedom. Pollard said, "The abandonment of a nation begins with the abandonment of an individual."

If we wish to maintain our integrity as a free people, we can do so only by taking on the task of bringing Pollard home. He may be a hero and he may be a fool. However he is viewed, he is one of us and he has been discriminated against and persecuted because he helped Israel. And other Jews are being persecuted because we refused to defend him. It is time for us to take responsibility for Pollard because his imprisonment paves the road to our servitude.

- 30 -

INA Publisher's Note: The Israel News Agency believes that Jonathan Pollard was wrong for disseminating US secret information to Israel as a employee of an American intelligence organization and that he has more than paid his price. But Pollard was nothing more and nothing less than a symptom of paranoia, anti-Semitism and a severe lack of communications and trust between the US and Israel governments. Jonathan Pollard represents many things to many people - but one element remains clear - Pollard represented all that was wrong with Israel American relations over two decades ago.

Pollard should not be persecuted further for the past mistakes made by Washington and Jerusalem. Israel has and remains America's closet ally. Israeli blood drips almost daily to preserve American oil interests in the Middle-East and remains Democracy's front line against extremist religious Islamic totalitarianism . Pollard could have been any Jew who was committed to both Israel and the United States. He loved both nations. And served both nations - not as an adversary, but as an innocent pawn. He was used by both governments and now appears to be totally thrown away.

In 1983, President Ronald Regan signed an agreement with Israel, America's ally, promising to give Israel all information dealing with its national security. In 1985 Jonathan Pollard, a civilian naval intelligence officer became aware of information concerning Iraqi and Syrian nuclear and biological weapons, information which would affect Israel's security. When Pollard asked why this information was not being sent to Israel, under the agreement, he was shrugged off and ignored.

In his role as a US Naval Intelligence analyst he passed valuable security information to Israel - not for money or ego but rather out of a desperate sense for Israel's very physical survival. We ask why did Pollard have to pass this information to Jerusalem - why wasn't the White House, the CIA and the State Department doing so? Pollard should not be blamed for the actions he took, rather the US and Israel administrations are directly at fault.

This editor has been warned by the US Jewish establishment not to openly support Jonathan Pollard's struggle to become a free man after serving over 20 years in prison. I say to the Jewish establishment: "be ashamed of yourselves. Pollard is a Jew, he is an Israeli, you don't leave a soldier in the field - even more so when it was "friendly fire."

On September 13, 2001, this editor, with full NYPD press credentials was covering 9/11 was he was detained at Ground Zero and interrogated by the FBI. They wanted to know what I knew about the attack before it took place. After 6 grueling hours of questioning, someone realized that I was not another Jonathan Pollard. I was not Mossad and I was released after the FBI took my press credentials and film. Should I now blame Jonathan Pollard for the behavior of my government in Washington? No way.

The FBI did their job, and though it was uncomfortable and traumatic for me as a loyal American citizen, as one who served in a police unit in New York, worked in the World Trade Center for 8 years, and volunteered to defend the US in Iraq in the US military, I salute the FBI's actions in defending the American people.

But for those who say that Pollard should rot in jail, I simply state: Pollard is not the problem - you are! You are a disgrace to every Jew, to every citizen who embraces democracy and takes an active role in the war against global Islamic terrorism. For being impotent, for not defending Israel's basic right to be secure and for not placing blame where it belongs - the US and Israeli administrations at the time of Pollard's arrest and the present inaction of Israel Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in ignoring Pollard and licking George Bush's toes. I have great respect for George Bush, but not in how he walks over an Israeli Prime Minister.

The reprehensible behavior of Ariel Sharon and the present Israeli government in the Pollard affair is one of the greatest disgraces Israel has ever suffered. Why is it that Pollard's handlers were able to quickly leave the US while leaving Pollard to twist in the wind? If Pollard was responsible for a misdemeanor - then United States and Israel are guilty of an ongoing felony.

Lastly, I ask, if the United States of America and Israel are such intimate friends, then why do we allow this issue to linger? It only serves the public relations, spin and incitement of those countries and Islamic terrorists who attempt to divide us - barbarians which have attacked and murdered countless innocents on buses and restaurants in Israel and those who perished in the World Trade Center and Washinton's Pentagon. The time to release Pollard is now and let this action serve as a shining and fresh example to our enemies as to the extent of the friendship and cooperation which exists today in 2005 between both democracies.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Israel; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 5thsignalcommand; 911; abuse; aipac; ally; arielsharon; carnivore; chemical; cia; constitution; contractor; culturalaffairs; defense; democracy; eitan; electronicwarfare; exercises; fbi; friendlyfire; georgebush; humanitarian; information; intel; intelligence; internet; iran; iraq; islamic; israel; jonathanpollard; jordan; justice; kirya; military; misinformation; mossad; nsa; nukes; osirak; pentagon; pentagoncapitalism; politics; pollard; prison; scuds; spy; surveillance; terrorism; unitedstates; us; usembassy
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To: bvw

What is that supposed to mean?

You are accusing the American government of anti-semitism. America, the country that has done MORE for the government of Israel than ANY country, in money and blood.

And you accuse them (and us) of anti-semitism? Please explain yourself.


101 posted on 05/04/2005 7:24:28 PM PDT by rlmorel
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To: IsraelBeach

The SOB should have fried.

And then today we see:

A Pentagon analyst was arrested Wednesday and charged with giving top secret information about potential attacks against U.S. forces in Iraq to employees of a pro-Israel group.

Larry Franklin, a 58-year-old Air Force Reserves colonel who once worked for the Pentagon's No. 3 official, is the first person charged in a long-running investigation into whether Israel improperly obtained U.S. secrets.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/bw-exec/2005/may/04/050409867.html


102 posted on 05/04/2005 7:27:30 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: IsraelBeach

Seems that you don't even know what day it is.


103 posted on 05/04/2005 7:30:14 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: jackbill

I saw that on Drudge today.
Couldn't find a FR thread on it


104 posted on 05/04/2005 7:31:11 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: bvw; IsraelBeach

For the record, I am willing to entertain the notion that he should have been treated slightly differently because he was spying on his country for a supposed ally.

What I am not willing to budge on is the fact that he has not only been unrepentant for spying on his own country, but has refused to come clean and participate in damage control.

I can forgive anyone for things they may have done in their life. Believe it or not, I could even forgive Osama Bin Laden if he genuinely repented, and was willing to be responsible and pay the price of what he did and denounce his activities.

It is not just a "Christian" thing, it is a "human" thing to be able to forgive. But it all hinges on genuine repentance, of which there is none forthcoming from Mr. Pollard.


105 posted on 05/04/2005 7:37:16 PM PDT by rlmorel
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To: bvw

Maybe you should read the documents that Pollard had to sign in order to get his clearances. They clearly spell out the penalty for giving such information to ANYBODY not authorized, friend or foe. I know. I signed them too.


106 posted on 05/04/2005 7:38:09 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: jackbill
Gee, there's a general big concept called democracy -- I mean the workable and working democracy we in the USA developed back in the colonial days -- the Great Awakening, the Revolution, the Constitutional Convention and the public discussions including Federalist and anti-Federalists both.

That old-school democracy is based on Liberty. Individuals acting on their own under their own moral compass in pursuit of their own good and in respect of the common good.

To the extent we relinquish our independence to act in what to each us independently seems the best for ourselves and for the nation we thereby diminish Liberty.

John Paul Jones acted in such Liberty -- with it he took on the mightiest navy in the world while he only had a floating toothpick box to start. Liberty -- the individual of respect, of energy, of independence and acting thereon -- is more potent than the mightiest Navy.

When you or I signed those papers we gave up that Liberty, the system constrained us -- in some ways proper, but in more I come to see --- more ways a ruination.

107 posted on 05/04/2005 7:54:03 PM PDT by bvw
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To: SJackson

Am I wrong or is this the same Ted Olsen who is now the Solicitor General for the Bush Admin? Must be. He was also the husband of the late lamented Barbara Olsen who died in the terrorist piloted plane that crashed into the Pentagon. Barbara also wrote a scathing book about Hitlery titled "Hell to Pay" a very good read and a devastating attack against Frau Hitlery.


108 posted on 05/04/2005 7:58:09 PM PDT by Paulus Invictus
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To: bvw

bvw, I am not sure you understand the republic we live in. We are a country of laws. Are you saying that it is up to each individual's concept of liberty to decide whether to break the laws that have been formulated, debated, approved and passed by legally elected representative government?


109 posted on 05/04/2005 7:58:55 PM PDT by rlmorel
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To: Paulus Invictus

Yes it is.


110 posted on 05/04/2005 8:00:58 PM PDT by SJackson (The first duty of a leader is to make himself be loved without courting love, Andre Malraux)
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To: bvw

You said: "When you or I signed those papers we gave up that Liberty, the system constrained us -- in some ways proper, but in more I come to see --- more ways a ruination."

bvw, if you signed some papers in order to get a job, and you view the signing of those papers as you do above...why did you sign them? Was it a case of 'I'll sign anything to get in the front door'?

The ruination of our country is the refusal of some to uphold the oaths, signed or spoken, that they vowed. This is precisely the problem we have with the judicial system in our country. Many of them are not beholden to anyone once on the bench, and can "legislate" when they should be interpreting.


111 posted on 05/04/2005 8:06:57 PM PDT by rlmorel
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To: rlmorel

A jury is King in its chambers. Laws are good only when carried out by good reasonable men and women -- the law itself is hollow without reasoned moral action in use of it.


112 posted on 05/04/2005 8:58:30 PM PDT by bvw
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To: bvw

When laws are decided by individuals and not society or elected representatives, that is anarchy, not liberty.

If a law is not moral or just, it is our job to change it, not disregard it.

A law is not "good only when it is carried out by good reasonable men and women." That is no measure of the "goodness" of a law. Bad men and women can carry out good laws, and vice versa.

There are plenty of nasty and unjust people who enforce our just and right laws.

You and I disagree on a fundamental level. In your opinion, if a law is not right or just (in your personal opinion or analysis of that law), you can disobey it and should not be subject to the will of the greater society. in your view, if I believe rape and robbery are okay, I should be able to do it without penalty. You may cry foul here, and accuse me of being polemic, but the point is, you think the individual should draw the line at right and wrong.

I believe that if one sees a law as unjust or wrong, change should come through the system. I believe that you can oppose a law and break it if you choose, but you must be subject to the penalties mandated by the electorate. If you disagree with laws, it is your right, your duty as a citizen to work to change it, not to just cherry-pick what you will obey and not obey.

Your view is anarchy, my view is representative democracy.


113 posted on 05/04/2005 9:47:02 PM PDT by rlmorel
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To: bvw
When you or I signed those papers we gave up that Liberty, the system constrained us -- in some ways proper, but in more I come to see --- more ways a ruination.

I don't recall having a gun pointed at my head when I signed the papers.

114 posted on 05/05/2005 5:53:20 AM PDT by jackbill
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To: rlmorel
We all act in our daily lifes according to laws and regulation. It is necessary.

Yet we do not check our brains, our consciense, our morality and even our self-interest at the door in so doing.

E Pluribus Unum. Out of many one.

The Union -- the United States, or and decent governemnt, is best when acheived by means of individuals acting as individuals, yet in accord to the good. To the common good, to the ideals of the land.

It is harmed and degraded towards tyrannmy, towards despotism, towards corruption and poverty and ineffectualism when the individuals permit too much of their Liberty of action, association and property to be hamstrung, to be cut-off, or to be denied in favor of some purported national interest as put forth by yet other individuals.

John Paul Jones, Daniel Boone, Daniel Webster and other individuals acted freely in their own interests -- in today's monolithic federal bureaucracy -- including the DOD and the security classifications and process -- such powerful and potent individuals would not be found, they would be rejected or arrested. What for? For disagreeing with the monolith god of Process, and it's step-sister goddess of Loyalty to Present Prevailing Opinion.

Our security and inteliigence systems are incmopetent because they so reject the individual and make Process and Group-think king.

115 posted on 05/05/2005 6:41:05 AM PDT by bvw (Grow some balls.)
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To: jackbill

Drama queen.


116 posted on 05/05/2005 6:41:41 AM PDT by bvw (Grow some balls.)
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To: IsraelBeach
The time to release Pollard is now...

No. End of discussion.

117 posted on 05/05/2005 6:44:20 AM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: bvw
Go read our Constitution. Treason is defined in it and Pollard's acts were not Treason.,/i>

Pollard was guilty of espionage and he may have been guilty of treason if some of the information was sold to the Soviets.

Constitutional treason consists of four elements: (1) an intent to betray; (2) by means of an ovet act; (3)testified to by two witnesses; and (4) giving aid and comfort to the enemy. The Pollard case meets the first three. I guess the only real question is whether Israel can be defined as an enemy, for the purposes of treason.

118 posted on 05/05/2005 7:03:30 AM PDT by kabar
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To: IsraelBeach

and we're not giving up Michael J. Pollard either...
http://www.thecollectorzone.com/images/products/1692_s.jpg

;o)


119 posted on 05/05/2005 7:07:35 AM PDT by Liberty Valance (If you must filibuster, let the Constitution do the talkin')
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To: bvw

This is a waste of time. You see nothing wrong with your rationale, even though it is completely at odds with the foundations of our republic.

You fail to see that you CANNOT have it both ways. You set up a straw man by saying: "We all act in our daily lifes according to laws and regulation. It is necessary.
Yet we do not check our brains, our consciense, our morality and even our self-interest at the door in so doing." and implying that those who do not think as you do just that.

We are a republic of laws, or we are not. You seem to think you can make your own laws. You can, but if they are at odds with what the representative legistlature has determined to be the law, then you do so at your own peril, and rightly so.

If you own a house, how would you like it if someone brought a backhoe into your backyard and began digging it up and building a shack to live in? What would you say to that person? That there are laws against digging up someone elses yard and building a shack on it?

In your world, that person would have every right to say "Not my laws. I am allowed to do this. I don't recognize the right of you to keep me off of this land." And you would have no recourse but to violence.

You may think you can, BUT YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

Your views are NOT what the founders of this country had in mind.


120 posted on 05/05/2005 8:38:23 AM PDT by rlmorel
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