Skip to comments.Israel And Freedom For Jonathan Pollard
Posted on 04/28/2005 1:50:07 PM PDT by IsraelBeach
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Don't presume to "babe" me.
I spent a great deal of my best and most productive years dedicated to thwarting the enemies of the USA.
Pollard is less than pondscum, IMHO.
You may feel some kind of sick thrill by proclaiming him a "Jewish hero".Enjoy.
Along with the "Free Mumia" crowd types, you exhibit an inredible degree of willfull ignorance.
He is a worthless traitor to the USA.
I dont care what his religeous beliefs were.
Are you actually saying that an individual who belives in Judaism is not subject to the same laws and consequences as every other individual who volunteered for USA DOD service under the UCMJ?
Are you really that ignorant?
Then you didn't know what you were doing because every one of the dozens of Pollard threads has done just that. There was one Freeper that specialized in regularly posting Pollard threads until he was banned as an anti-semite.
Thank you for the thread and thanks to all who contributed to give us some semblance of understanding on this subject.
Thanks for the ping, and FR posting history should teach us that Pollard threads are a lose-lose situation. Both sides are polarized, there is no middle ground (and won't be), and bad feelings are the inevitable result. Makes you wonder why anyone ever posts them anyway.....
Are you wearing a tinfoil hat near area 51??
Pollard broke the law and more than paid his price. Does the punishment here fit the crime? Not quite.
Was Pollard truly guilty of treason?
Not according to the US Constitution!
Yet some of you are asking for Pollard to be hanged, gassed or electrocuted. You say "bury the guy."
I think a living hell - 20 years of rotting away in a small cement cage is a much more severe sentence for helping a friend. But you really continue to seek more blood from an ally. Why?
I believe the crimes of a few US Presidents (i.e. - Nixon authorizing Watergate) were much more severe. Screwing their own country with unlimited power and not spending one day in prison. Nixon had a pardon, but a Jew who supports Israel? No way!
Pollard was wrong. But the United States and Israel were far worse for having and continuing to use Pollard as a symbol of US arrogance. Keeping Pollard in prison beyond any jail sentence that any real foreign enemy may have committed is not justice; it's an aberration of politics between friends. It's despicable.
When I wear an Israel Defense Forces uniform and watch my comrades bleed, we bleed for the citizens of Israel and all who believe in democracy, liberty and justice. We fight on the front line of Islamic terrorism against those who would destroy our homes and families in Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, New York and Washington.
Pollard never took aim at the US but rather did what negligent US intel guys failed to do - help a friend.
If your parents or children live in Chicago, Seattle or Dallas and you were working abroad for another government and had information that nuclear tipped missiles were being readied to vaporize those cities, to murder your children, family and friends - what would you do?
It is we - here in Israel who face a second holocaust if we fail to protect ourselves against thousands of missiles from Syria and Iran with payloads of toxic chemicals awaiting to be released. We don't see Canada or Mexico aiming at the US. Our situation here in the Middle East, protecting US oil interests, is a little bit more severe.
You are not keeping Pollard in prison - you are keeping Israel in prison.
Its all about control.
And you never "control" a friend.
What the US is doing to Pollard by going beyound any reasonable and just punishment is called alienation.
Ok, sure, Israel gets 3 billion dollars a year but most of that money goes right back into the bank accounts of US corporations. It's called Pentagon Capitalism.
And the US threats continue: "if you don't dance exactly to our step, we will take away that money."
Let me remind all in this forum - Israel was created without the assistance of the United States. Not one bullet, not one US troop came over to fight - just a few verbal words of support from Truman - who braved to say what many would never dream of articulating in 1948. Why make enemies with your Arab oil buddies...
But the picture is a whole lot different today after September 11th 2001. Those Arab oil friends took the most lethal hit at the US since US ally Great Britan burned down the White House in 1812. And Rudy never took the bribe at Ground Zero from Saudi Arabia.
It's reality check time.
Stop screwing your friends.
Today the IDF and the US armed forces are one.
Let's keep it that way, but please remember - Israel was alone in 1948 and was alone when Pollard passed on information to Israel to protect my family here from Scud missiles carrying clouds of chemicals.
Where was US Intel in 1984? Where is "with liberty and justice for all?"
The US and Israeli governments should be ashamed of themselves for contining this travesty of justice.
Does the CIA spy on Israel?
Does Israel know of these activities?
Should Israel take action?
Can we please separate spy games from justice. It's time we end this depressing chapter of "friendly fire."
I wonder what Pollard will eat for lunch today in his small cage?
But then again for many in this room, why even think of it when you can go to Killington and Stowe and take in some good skiing, Hilton Head for golf and take the kids to Disneyworld.
It's easier to forget Pollard.
We in Israel will not.
Are you suggesting the U.S. attack Israel? Not surprising coming form you.
Pollard's information aided the Soviet Union's efforts to destroy the U.S., not to mention destroy Israel. He also did it for the money, not for anything else.
This is misinformation at its very best.
Pollard had money.
He had a good salary and if he needed any further assistance, his family was there for him.
What his Israeli handlers did do, from what I have read in the media, was to reinforce his Zionism and covert activities with a "thank you" paid vacation to Europe.
There was no salary.
Nothing less than what your local travel agent gets. It's called a "junket".
When you say that Pollard did it for the money, please tell us all how much money did Pollard receive? ;>
You can't substantiate these charges.
But perhaps you are baiting others to offer more to this thread.
Yes, loose lips sink ships ... and Pollard has paid his price.
So has Israel.
And we are still here :>
I am glad Israel is still there... and hope it continues to be.
Your post intrigues me. I have to wonder how one whose opinion is formed by inside information can be so condemning and vituperative towards those questioning that opinion without the benefit of said inside information? What's the old saying about pounding facts when they favor you, and pounding the table when they don't?
Furthermore, to me it seems rather doctrinaire to tell defendants at nuremburg "those orders were illegitimate, and you should have known better," and then expect Pollard to sit on his hands while his branch goes "rogue."
One can prattle on about how "he did it for the money," but that is an unprovable assertion: therefore not relevant.
I can distinguish no functional difference between the quality of arguments used against Pollard, and that which *would be* used by supremely arrogant bureaucrats, with a pronounced streak of jew-hatred, punishing an underling who had the audacity to circumvent their pronouncements from on high.
I for one, do not know what to think about the Pollard case, but I do know I have been negatively impacted by the questionable reasoning of those who would like nothing better than to stand Pollard up against a wall.
Hey, "professional", Iraq/Alqueda attacked us -- despite your pension. If not for Pollard when they did they would have used nukes. Pollard pulled YOUR fat out of the fire. And all you can do is spit on him.
Enjoy your pension, "professional"!
Is it now?
You missed your Information Super Highway Exit. You should have gotten off at the Israel hating Democratic Underground.
I don't have a pension.
I am a citizen of the USA, and a military veteran of the USA.
What I do have, and you lack, is experience and knowledge on a subject you "feel free" to fabricate facts and express ignorant and ludicrous opinions about.
What nationality are you?
But have a nice day!
Its not hard to understand.
Unless one has such a naive,fanatic or ignorant worldview that one thinks handing over your own governments classified intellgence information,that you swore to protect, including sources and methods, to a foreign country is a good thing for non-elected and incredibly arrogant and traitorous intelligence workers to do.
It seems you think it was just fine and dandy!
Tell me, is it still fine and dandy when done for Islamic "higher moral " reasons?
What if done for stictly "Christian" reasons?
Or is it your contention that only those who support Israel, even against their sworn oath to their own country, should be forgiven their treason?
Dare I even say it-
Jews can be virulently anti-USA, and not be called anti-Christian, even when they are.
But none must ever question anything related to Israel,or Judaism, lest they be called anti-semetic.
Islam is closer in practice to Judaism than it is to Christianity.
Pollard will die in prison not because he is Jewish, but because he became a paid spy for Israel, against the USA.
Actually, I suggested the opposite.
But it is not surprising, coming from you, that you would imply I did.
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