Skip to comments.Israel And Freedom For Jonathan Pollard
Posted on 04/28/2005 1:50:07 PM PDT by IsraelBeach
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This is misinformation at its very best.
Pollard had money.
He had a good salary and if he needed any further assistance, his family was there for him.
What his Israeli handlers did do, from what I have read in the media, was to reinforce his Zionism and covert activities with a "thank you" paid vacation to Europe.
There was no salary.
Nothing less than what your local travel agent gets. It's called a "junket".
When you say that Pollard did it for the money, please tell us all how much money did Pollard receive? ;>
You can't substantiate these charges.
But perhaps you are baiting others to offer more to this thread.
Yes, loose lips sink ships ... and Pollard has paid his price.
So has Israel.
And we are still here :>
I am glad Israel is still there... and hope it continues to be.
Your post intrigues me. I have to wonder how one whose opinion is formed by inside information can be so condemning and vituperative towards those questioning that opinion without the benefit of said inside information? What's the old saying about pounding facts when they favor you, and pounding the table when they don't?
Furthermore, to me it seems rather doctrinaire to tell defendants at nuremburg "those orders were illegitimate, and you should have known better," and then expect Pollard to sit on his hands while his branch goes "rogue."
One can prattle on about how "he did it for the money," but that is an unprovable assertion: therefore not relevant.
I can distinguish no functional difference between the quality of arguments used against Pollard, and that which *would be* used by supremely arrogant bureaucrats, with a pronounced streak of jew-hatred, punishing an underling who had the audacity to circumvent their pronouncements from on high.
I for one, do not know what to think about the Pollard case, but I do know I have been negatively impacted by the questionable reasoning of those who would like nothing better than to stand Pollard up against a wall.
Hey, "professional", Iraq/Alqueda attacked us -- despite your pension. If not for Pollard when they did they would have used nukes. Pollard pulled YOUR fat out of the fire. And all you can do is spit on him.
Enjoy your pension, "professional"!
Is it now?
You missed your Information Super Highway Exit. You should have gotten off at the Israel hating Democratic Underground.
I don't have a pension.
I am a citizen of the USA, and a military veteran of the USA.
What I do have, and you lack, is experience and knowledge on a subject you "feel free" to fabricate facts and express ignorant and ludicrous opinions about.
What nationality are you?
But have a nice day!
Its not hard to understand.
Unless one has such a naive,fanatic or ignorant worldview that one thinks handing over your own governments classified intellgence information,that you swore to protect, including sources and methods, to a foreign country is a good thing for non-elected and incredibly arrogant and traitorous intelligence workers to do.
It seems you think it was just fine and dandy!
Tell me, is it still fine and dandy when done for Islamic "higher moral " reasons?
What if done for stictly "Christian" reasons?
Or is it your contention that only those who support Israel, even against their sworn oath to their own country, should be forgiven their treason?
Dare I even say it-
Jews can be virulently anti-USA, and not be called anti-Christian, even when they are.
But none must ever question anything related to Israel,or Judaism, lest they be called anti-semetic.
Islam is closer in practice to Judaism than it is to Christianity.
Pollard will die in prison not because he is Jewish, but because he became a paid spy for Israel, against the USA.
Actually, I suggested the opposite.
But it is not surprising, coming from you, that you would imply I did.
Pollard gave his word of honor that he would not betray classified information to persons not allowed to receive it. He broke that word.
Also, Israel was the SECOND country he approached about becoming a spy. He sold out his loyalty to the high bidder.
Finally, he refuses (to this day) to assist in a damage assessment.
American. Same kind of folks who owned the Mayflower, maybe related. Pre-1666, dear.
"If not for Pollard when they did they would have used nukes."
What DID Pollard do, exactly?
Still what you ask for from him says something. That's you know he's honest.
Ask the Walkers or Hanson for an assessment? Every word a lie. Even the true ones.
"Seven years of solitary. What kind of damage assessment do you think he can still give?"
The one he refused to give back in 1985, which was a condition of his proposed plea bargain.
"Still what you ask for from him says something. That's you know he's honest."
No, it means that I know he promised to give a damage assessment, and then reneged on doing so. That is not a working definition of "honest."
Oh I am so impressed...not.
America consists of two rather large, semi-contiguous continents.
The USA is a separate,disinct and sovereign nation in North America.
BTW, my ancestors greeted the Mayflower, along with all the other many ships that arrived centuries before on their shores.
Israel knocked out Iraqs nukes. We didn't have to. Pollard should have been released the day Gulf War One ended. Or the Day we occupied Bagdad.
Can't say that. There's reasons why an honest man in his shoes might have had to reconsider. You or I we are not in his shoes.
Apparently, his cellmate is the son of David Keene, the head of the American Conservative Union (ACU).
"Pollard served more than his time. That's what he did. As the article says "Never has a spy in the employ of a friendly country received such a sentence. On average,
spies working for countries considered US allies receive between 4-7 years in jail.""
That's because, among other things, they complied with the terms of their plea bargains. Pollard did not. He REFUSED to give any information on what he gave to Israel, or who specifically received it.
By the way, did you know that Pollard's case officer was arrested by the Israelis for selling stuff to the Russians?
"Israel knocked out Iraqs nukes. We didn't have to."
Israel bombed the Osirak reactor about three years before they got anything from Pollard. So Pollard does not get any credit for this deed.
So how did Pollard save us from getting nuked on 9/11?
"Pollard should have been released the day Gulf War One ended. Or the Day we occupied Bagdad."
Why? He made promises and broke them repeatedly. Dishonorable scumbags belong in jail, not walking around free.
"Can't say that. There's reasons why an honest man in his shoes might have had to reconsider. You or I we are not in his shoes."
It's a contract. The price tag for breach of contract is that one is no longer entitled to the consideration on the other side of the contract.
I admit to not checking google as to when the Osirak reactor was bombed and when Pollard did his spying. If that's not right it is a misconception I've had, but there is some reason for that kind of thing or something similar.
Oh! I remember now. It was BECAUSE some parts of the US intelligence community decided to punish Israel for it's hubris in bombing Osirak! It exposed methodologies or somesuch.
So Pollard decided to make up for that dishonorable action. Dishonorable because Israel did us then a great favor, and got punched down by these super-secret super-intelligentalists because of it. And of course that mighty brain thrust missed 9/11, and all the other attacks -- WTC I, Cole, Khobar, etc. etc. So focused on the mighty mighty Russkies!
But the Russkies were all a-tatters, falling apart internally, fighting over mines, banks and assets.
Pollard's acts -- who knows -- maybe they were the most effective of all in those times in assuring our US security. I'll put that forth as a tenable proposition.
"Israel knocked out the nukes, Israel wants Pollard. There's a debt of honor, eh?"
Israel sells advanced weapons technology developed here to countries such as China. Please do not speak of a "debt of honor."
If I steal technology and information from your company, but then proceed to whack the local firebug around so that he doesn't (hypothetically) burn your business down, and I resell that stolen information to one of your competitors...I should get a pass for the hypothetical good deed I did for you.
Have I accurately stated your position?
Without that missing piece, it just looks like someone wants to put a dog to sleep, because it tried to bite them when they kicked it.
One need not be religious in the least to recognize the inherent immorality of a bureaucrat unilaterally taking it upon himself to "punish" the Israelis for bombing Osirak. The agreement to share intelligence with the Israelis was made way above Inman's pay grade, yet he chose to jeopardize a vital ally in a fit of pique over the way they handle their foreign affairs.
You can spout platitudes till you're blue, but nothing you've said so far provides sufficient reason for your over-the-top animosity toward this guy. There may indeed be mitigating circumstances I am unaware of, but if there are not, I can only be thankful you've retired if you are a typical example of our analytical talent.
Can any Pollard / Israel basher here please tell us "how much" money Pollard received from the "highest bidder?"
Again, this is not about Jonathan Pollard, not after serving 20 years. This is about keeping Israel in prison, for Pollard represents the image of Israeli security in the US. Something for which the US is and should be jealous of.
We must all remember that the Pollard Affair took place 20 years ago, before 9/11. Pollard represents division between the US and Israel - something we do not in these days of Islamic terrorism.
In the name of justice and humanity, release this symbol of Jerusalem and let's focus on our real enemies - Syria, Iran and Saudi Arabia.
If Pollard is not released in the immediate future, I would suggest to the Israeli government to start "detaining" CIA / NSA and Mil Intel operatives who are now spying on Israel's military and hi-tech infrastructure. Subsequent threats of depriving Israel of military and economic aid would be impotent as US defense contractors would have to cancel some golf outings ;>
I am neither ignorant, nor foolish, and I'm firmly committed to the belief that Pollard should be turned over to Israel. As an aside, it's always the people who should have the humblest of opinions who never do.
You win the cigar. A man who actually reads the constitution, a rarity in this thread.
Pollard is not an Israeli citizen.
He just got paid to spy for Israel against his country and his own voluntarily sworn oathes.
Why should I pretend to fasely have a "humble opinion" of his deserved fate?
Spare ME your willfull ignorance.
The facts you claim you "are unaware of" is not a concern of mine.
Nor do I care what you label my stated opinions.
"Breathless hyperbole" seems to be your forte, not mine.
Pollard will rightfully die in prison, serving out his extraordinarily lenient sentence to its full completion.
He should have been executed years ago.
Because it's time. There comes a point, where punisment is no longer just. There comes a point, where punishment just becomes cruelty. We've passed that point. That's the simplest explanation I can give, and I know in advance that you not only disagree, but will take great umbrage that I even hold an opinion so markedly different from your own.
You are unhinged. You've passed the point of rational argument, and taken to gainsaying and petulant contradiction.
Vote for Hillary.
He did not commit his crimes for the sake of Israel.
No, but if he is an Israeli hero then surely Israel will seek his release.
He was not charged, much less convicted, of treason or a comparable crime that brings the death penalty.
He is an Israeli citizen.
Israel considers Pollard to be expendable and that it is better for the State if one man die.
Like Daniel Boone, Pollard was a pioneer. Many arrows in his back.
Isn't Sandy Berger also of the Jewish persuasion? Hmmmmmm!
Pardon my "tense" error.
When Pollard committed his crimes, he was not an Israeli citizen.
In order for Pollard to have attained access to the highly classified information he sold to Israel, he would have to have sworn to renounce any dual-citizenship status to any other nation he may have been entitled to claim.
Security requirements for DOD members were and remain, much more stringent than those for elected government officials.
He was not a hero of
Rome the United States.
He was serving Israeli interests while breaking American laws.
Being Jewish has (or should have) nothing to do with it. The focal point is who was he serving while breaking the law. Sandy Berger was ostensibly serving Bill Clinton and the Democrat wing of the United States Congress while Jonathan Pollard was working for Israel.
Good lord, what horsepuckey. I don't care how PURE his motives were for being a spy in our intelligence agency. He did it. I wouldn't care if another inmate smashed his head against a toilet.
Look, I know we need to keep this discussion civil, but your charge that Pollard is in jail because he is Jewish is just, plain, BS. Period.
He is in jail because he is an unrepentant spy who is keeping hs mouth shut.
If you want to be taken seriously here, please leave the charges of anti-semitism at the door.
Rome's greatest leaders (in its empire stage) were often drawn from amoung those it had been at war with.
In the war we are now in Israel is on our side with no doubt at all -- Pollard's instincts were ahead of his time.
Pollard, like Benedict Arnold, went outside his chain of command to do it his way.
All the punctuation in the world and then some would not support your postulate, unfortunately.
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