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Home Schoolers Take Community College Classes - get AA degree while getting high school diploma
Tampa Tribune ^ | May 1, 2005 | RONNIE BLAIR rblair@tampatrib.com

Posted on 05/01/2005 3:51:49 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

NEW PORT RICHEY - When Sarah Cheney began excelling in her home school lessons, her parents decided it was time for some accelerated learning at the next level. So they joined what has become a growing trend for home schooled high school students.

The Cheneys signed up their daughter for dual-enrollment courses at Pasco-Hernando Community College, an option once reserved for students in public schools.

``She's done well,'' said Richard Cheney, her father. ``She's gotten all A's, except one B.''

Dual enrollment allows teenagers to take college courses while they are still in high school. The credits earned are counted toward both a high school diploma and a college degree.

Students pay no tuition, but home school students pay for their textbooks. School districts typically pay for textbooks for their dual-enrollment students.

At one time, dual enrollment was strictly for public high school students. Then the program was made available to students in private schools. In 1996, the Legislature expanded the program to include home school students.

``It's an equity issue to be sure we are fair,'' said Paul Szuch, vice president of educational services for PHCC. ``It makes sure all students, whether they are in public school, private school or home school, have access to the program.''

Initially, PHCC didn't see many home school students. That began to change about three or four years ago as what had been one or two students quickly grew, Szuch said. Today, PHCC has 47 dual-enrollment agreements with home school families.

Colleges report that dual enrollment, in general, is growing. But Szuch said the home school portion appears to be increasing at a faster rate at PHCC.

Szuch anticipates there could be as many as 60 home- school students in the PHCC program when the fall semester begins in August.

``It wasn't too long ago we didn't have any,'' Szuch said.

Hillsborough Community College, meanwhile, reported 83 home schooled dual-enrollment students for this academic year. That's down from 91 in 2003-04, but well above the 56 the college reported in 2002-03.

``As with the balance of the enrollment, the highest numbers are in the fall,'' said John Huerta, spokesman for HCC.

St. Petersburg College reported about 200 home school students this academic year, said David Moore, director of the college's dual-credit program.

That's up from 117 students in the fall of 2001, the first year St. Petersburg College tracked home school numbers separately from private-school numbers, Moore said.

The University of South Florida serves far fewer dual- enrollment students than the community colleges. This spring, USF reported six home-school students, up from three in spring 2003 but down from nine last spring.

LaWanda Sutherland of Plant City, who is District 5 director of the Florida Parent- Educator Association, said dual enrollment is popular among home school families.

``Home schoolers love it,'' Sutherland said. ``It's an opportunity for them to get their AA [associate's] degree while they are getting their high school diploma.''

Sutherland's daughter Jenny, 17, was in dual enrollment at Hillsborough Community College last year, earning 14 credit hours, said Sutherland, who began home schooling her children 12 years ago.

She also has a son, Britt, 14, and another daughter, Erin, 12.

The Florida Parent-Educator Association district that Sutherland represents consists of Pasco, Hillsborough, Pinellas, Hernando and Citrus counties. The association doesn't push dual enrollment, but it does make sure its members are familiar with it.

Each year, the association holds a graduation ceremony for home school students. Several of the students already have earned an associate's degree by the time they accept their high school diplomas, she said.

That may not be surprising, considering trends Moore has observed at St. Petersburg College.

``These students take more courses than students in public and private schools because they have more time,'' Moore said.

Students in public and private schools have a structured schedule during the day to work around, while the home school students don't, he said.

Strongest And Weakest

Moore said he sees more extremes in the quality of the students when it comes to those who are home schooled.

``Some of the best are home schoolers and some of the weakest are home schoolers,'' he said.

The performance to a large extent depends on the parents, Moore said.

Students who maintain less than a 3.0 grade-point average are told they can no longer stay in the program if they don't raise their scores within a specific time, he said. That happens more often with home school students than their private- and public-school peers, Moore said.

``They are more exposed,'' he said. ``They are taking more courses. They also don't have a high school counselor to say, `I think you should take this class or not take this class.' ''

Some students who have been home schooled since kindergarten simply are overwhelmed when placed in a college setting, where the testing and work demands are different from what they are used to, he said.

Szuch said one point PHCC sometimes must stress to home school parents is that dual enrollment isn't a substitute for a high school curriculum. This is not a way for home school families to let the college do their work for them, he said.

Home school students must demonstrate they have excelled in high school level work and are ready for an accelerated program, just as the dual- enrollment students from public and private school are, Szuch said.

``This is not English in place of nine-through-12 English or math in place of nine-through- 12 math,'' he said. ``They have to be at that level already. We're expecting students who come are the same caliber as those coming out of public or private schools.''

Richard and Beverly Cheney began home schooling their daughter, Sarah, 19, in their New Port Richey home after she finished sixth grade in public schools.

Gains Made At Home

``She was only doing fair, a little below average on achievement tests,'' Richard Cheney said. ``Since then, she's several grades ahead on most of it.''

The Cheneys make use of a computer program designed with home school students in mind.

When Sarah was 16, the Cheneys learned about the dual-enrollment option and decided she had progressed well enough to take on the more challenging courses at PHCC.

Sarah has taken college courses in such subjects as marketing, English and psychology.

Sarah said as a young girl in public school, she had been a shy loner. During her years of home schooling, though, she developed into an outgoing teenager. Moving back into a classroom setting with other students at PHCC wasn't that difficult a transition, she said.

``I really enjoyed it,'' she said. ``I opened up more and liked to interact more with people after I was home schooled awhile.''

Reporter Ronnie Blair can be reached at (813) 948-4218.


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: communitycollege; dualhomeschool; education; highereducation; homeschool; homeschoolers; homeschooling

1 posted on 05/01/2005 3:51:50 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: All

***....``These students take more courses than students in public and private schools because they have more time,'' Moore said.

Students in public and private schools have a structured schedule during the day to work around, while the home school students don't, he said. ...***


2 posted on 05/01/2005 3:55:13 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

My home-schooled daughter will soon be starting 7th grade material. She will be doing her school work via correspondence through Brigham Young University. By the time she meets high school graduation requirements she will have amassed a ton of college credits. We'll probably mix that with classes from the local community college, where again she'll be earning college credits. It is our hope that she'll be able to get her high school diploma and her associates degree right about the same time.


3 posted on 05/01/2005 3:55:22 AM PDT by Spiff (Don't believe everything you think.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

bttt


4 posted on 05/01/2005 3:56:08 AM PDT by tutstar ( <{{--->< Impeach Judge Greer http://www.petitiononline.com/ijg520/petition.html)
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To: Spiff

Bump!


5 posted on 05/01/2005 3:58:16 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Spiff

That's good to know that BYU has correspondence. Right now I'm building up my math with Singapore math (they were tops in the worldwide mathematics contests). It's pretty close to what my mom taught me when I was at home for one year.


6 posted on 05/01/2005 4:00:17 AM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; All

Yes, the vast amounts of time wasted getting to and from school, and the learning-free administrative overhead time eaters that kick in once you get there, are missing from the home schooled student's daily activities. Therefore, they have more time to spend in productive learning activities.

Funny how that works out. LOL


7 posted on 05/01/2005 4:01:22 AM PDT by Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

My kids in this program.

He's entering his senior year of high school next fall (technically), so he's been in the program for 2 years, and he has 57 college credits (needs three more to finish his AA reqs) and a 3.7 GPA.

These programs are the best, IMHO.

Here's the main problems:

First year in the program, he wasn't old enough to drive. So there was a lot of driving him back and forth to campus. Once he turned 16 and had his license, it got a lot easier, especially this year when his math classes started being 5 credit hours and he has to be on campus everyday.

Secondly, we have to decide before next semester what his major will be, because once he has in the 3 more hours to get his AA, all his other courses that are transferable can count toward his major, i.e. if he's going toward a chem eng. degree, he has to take more chemistry.

But it's not a bad problem to have, especially seeing we've gotten this far and only paid for books.

He has dozens of friends that are homeschooled and use the same program.


8 posted on 05/01/2005 4:16:57 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: dawn53

It sounds like a great program.


9 posted on 05/01/2005 4:21:08 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

20 homeschoolers will be graduating this month at the local community college - with both H.S. diploma and A.A. With many of those going on to 4-year private schools, those parents have saved thousands of dollars in tuition already.


10 posted on 05/01/2005 4:28:05 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun

It's a partial payback for not being allowed to use your own tax dollars on an education of your choice.


11 posted on 05/01/2005 4:29:50 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

HSer bump


12 posted on 05/01/2005 4:34:08 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer (the real enemy seeks to devour what is good)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

Yes, though I wonder how long before the government-financed colleges will "get wise" to this method and find ways to "disqualify" homeschoolers......


13 posted on 05/01/2005 4:36:32 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun
Most of the Private Schools in TX are growing rapidly and are hungry for students, so I don't think HSers will have a problem. I know TCU is trying to get to 14,500 students by I think 2008. They are around 9,000 I think.

I wish programs like these were around when I was in public school. Or at the very least parents that would of pushed harder and maybe paid for summer school. I really think 12 years of public school and 4 years(like who spends that little amount of time in college now days) is way to much time to be spent sitting in a classroom. Structural learning should be done at 18 by the very least. IMHO.
14 posted on 05/01/2005 4:46:36 AM PDT by neb52
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To: anniegetyourgun

They already "discriminate" a little.

If you're a public schooled kid, your books are free.

Homeschoolers have to pay for their books (about 400-500) per semester for us.

In our state, my kid's already qualified for the 100 percent tuition state scholarship to a state school (depends on their SAT/ACT score and GPA), so I'm not complaining.

But here's the ironic part. My 17 year old will have enough credits for his AA, but he won't be able to get his AA until he shows proof of High School Equivalency (take into account he's already passed the college level placement to get into the program, they won't let you in unless you qualify as post high school). But he'll have to take a GED in order to get his AA, sort of funny, but you've got to play by the rules.


15 posted on 05/01/2005 4:48:40 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: kinsman redeemer
When did it become possible (at least in certain states) for people in high school to take college courses? Back in the mid 60's I was so far ahead in the regular HS curriculum (being essentially self-taught in everything years ahead) that I asked whether it would be possible to take something, anything at the community college to alleviate the absolute boredom. Back then, the answer was that it was not possible, since there was no such thing.

So I just skipped 12th grade and went to an out-of-state college that allowed such a thing (MIT). The funny thing is they were so mad at me at the high school they refused to let me graduate in 11th grade (since it was literally impossible to take 12th grade English before 12th grade), and even told me that after I flunked out of college I'd have to come back. Needless to say, that didn't happen.

16 posted on 05/01/2005 4:55:12 AM PDT by wildandcrazyrussian
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To: dawn53

Can't you sign an affidavit that says he has "graduated" from your homeschool program?


17 posted on 05/01/2005 5:15:42 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun

Well, that's what we thought, but evidently not. It's really not a big deal, he'll just have to go take the test and he'll do fine. It's just sort of ironic.

I spoke with the academic advisor at the college he's transferring to and they'll be happy with just the AA, they don't need the diploma.

But he did mention that in the future it will make it easier when he's filling out job applications if he has a GED because then he'll have something to put on the line where it says "diploma", LOL, (guess he'd never heard of a homeschool diploma.)


18 posted on 05/01/2005 5:21:56 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; All

What's the best insurance against your kid knocking at your door in the middle of the night at the age of 35, because they don't have a job, etc??? (Every parent's nightmare?)??

Homeschool'em and get them a degree BEFORE they leave your house and before they take off for college (or whatever).. They'll rarely have to move back in...


19 posted on 05/01/2005 6:01:19 AM PDT by 1stFreedom (1)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

I wonder what computer program they used?


20 posted on 05/01/2005 6:01:28 AM PDT by I_dmc
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To: Spiff

Good for you and her!


21 posted on 05/01/2005 6:14:32 AM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
My homeschooled eldest is taking advantage of a similar program at my local community college, where you can take your senior year at the college. You take a full credit load which simultaneously satisfies your HS senior year requirements, and college freshman requirements. The comm college also has an arrangement with many local 4-year colleges where the credits are fully transferable

For parents of gifted children, Stanford has an internet-course program called Education Program for Gifted Youth, which allows you to take accelerated courses at the high-school and college level, with the college-level courses being accepted by Stanford (and thus most likely by everybody else)

22 posted on 05/01/2005 6:29:32 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (What does the wolf care how many sheep there be?)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian

I remember kids taking college courses while in high school during the mid-70s, in NY.


23 posted on 05/01/2005 6:30:53 AM PDT by ViLaLuz
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To: dawn53
But he did mention that in the future it will make it easier when he's filling out job applications if he has a GED because then he'll have something to put on the line where it says "diploma",

In Pennsylvania, we have a number of homeschool "private schools" which will give you a nice looking HS diploma under their name

24 posted on 05/01/2005 6:32:07 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (What does the wolf care how many sheep there be?)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
Realisticly, the last couple of years of high-school can be a waste. The kids smart enough to do well in college are already starting to take AP courses. You take your bio, chem, and physics HS courses, and then go over the same material in somewhat more depth in your first two years of college.

It would make more sense to have people do two years of high school, then have people either move on to trade school or to community college. People going the college route could then shave at least a year off the sequence by taking courses that merge the late-HS with the college-101 requirements

25 posted on 05/01/2005 7:12:05 AM PDT by SauronOfMordor (What does the wolf care how many sheep there be?)
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To: Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek

Yes, the vast amounts of time wasted getting to and from school, and the learning-free administrative overhead time eaters that kick in once you get there, are missing from the home schooled student's daily activities. Therefore, they have more time to spend in productive learning activities."

Not to mention the classes themselves. Dumbed down for the common denominator, makng them boring/repetitive to most, and chock-full-of non-educational indoctrination material.

Probably less than 1 hour of real education in a single school day.


26 posted on 05/01/2005 8:39:56 AM PDT by WOSG (Liberating Iraq - http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Almost exactly the same program exists in Ohio. Any 11th or 12th-grader can attend college for free. The school district must pay their tuition, fees, and books. Think about it - two free years of college. You don't have to be homeschooled - any enrolled student is eligible.

It's called PSEOP - Google around if you're interested, because the school districts sure aren't interested in giving out information about it...

27 posted on 05/01/2005 9:19:51 AM PDT by SedVictaCatoni (<><)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian; dawn53
I can say that I took college night classes while in public H.S. exactly 11 years ago, in N.J. I also had some difficulty getting the college credits transfered to my H.S. diploma. Apparently, learning C+ at a college level didn't equal a Intro to C.S./web design course my h.s. had. Yet a friend and myself were doing 90% of the I.T. maintenance in the h.s. to stave off the boredom.

If I could do it again, only time I would have been in h.s. was for intervarsity sports.

Dawn, is this program statewide in Florida? Are all CC's mandated to open their doors to high schoolers?

28 posted on 05/01/2005 11:04:12 AM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
So I just skipped 12th grade and went to an out-of-state college that allowed such a thing (MIT). The funny thing is they were so mad at me at the high school they refused to let me graduate in 11th grade (since it was literally impossible to take 12th grade English before 12th grade), and even told me that after I flunked out of college I'd have to come back. Needless to say, that didn't happen.

Back in high school, we had a student one year behind me that had an urge to apply to college early. He got accepted, dropped out of our high school and entered Pre-Med at the same time as I did.

In Pre-Med, he did the same thing. He was accepted to Med School early, never finished his B.S. degree and was now one year ahead of me. As a senior medical student, he was my Intern on one rotation.

The only diploma he every got in his life was an M.D. :-)

29 posted on 05/01/2005 11:14:53 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: JerseyHighlander

CC's and universities. You notice the article mentions University of South Florida which is a state university. In fact the school my son is attending, SPC, was a community college, but now offers many four year degrees.

He, however, will transfer to USF because they don't offer a degree he wants at SPC.

Here's a link to our program.

http://www.spcollege.edu/ac/dc/

and a link to the 4 year tuition free program
available for state residents at state universities.

http://www.firn.edu/doe/bin00072/fasrequire.htm


30 posted on 05/01/2005 12:12:57 PM PDT by dawn53
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To: All
Speaking of links... Everyone who is home schooling or thinking about home schooling should go here:

Home School Legal Defense Association.

31 posted on 05/01/2005 2:10:54 PM PDT by kinsman redeemer (the real enemy seeks to devour what is good)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

BTTT


32 posted on 05/01/2005 4:34:49 PM PDT by davidosborne (www.davidosborne.net)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

***....``These students take more courses than students in public and private schools because they have more time,'' Moore said.

Students in public and private schools have a structured schedule during the day to work around, while the home school students don't, he said. ...***........

so in FL the kids in public schools have to attend classes in their high school to recieve credits toward graduation? in addition to taking college courses?

Just wondering, since i have two kids who recieved their AA degrees a few weeks before their high school graduation, and they chose not to attend any classes at their high school. (their colledge credits were used in place of the high school credits)

This is in MN, where the program is called the Post Secondary Option Program (or PSOP) so the rules for participating are probably different then in FL, but they are making it harder for the kids if they are making them double their work load by taking both at the same time.


33 posted on 05/01/2005 8:39:56 PM PDT by tickles
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To: Cincinatus' Wife

We don't get it paid for by the state, but so far my sibs and I have all started taking classes at the local CC as soon as we're ready. For me, that was 15. I had my AA at 18, my BS at 21, and I'm on course for my MS at 23 - took so long to get my BS because I was working full time and going part time.

I recommend a similar plan to all the homeschoolers I know. It's really great. Wonderfully cheap way to get the first two years, the local colleges almost always transfer everything (I had one database class they wouldn't take) and nobody cares where you started once you get your BS.


34 posted on 05/01/2005 8:45:53 PM PDT by JenB (Brain the size of a planet, and they have me opening doors...)
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To: wildandcrazyrussian

I believe in MN the post secondary option became available in the late 1980's. I know a mom who's son was one of the first kids to use it and believe that would have been late 80s. Having said that they are now required to take all college level courses (back when it first started here you could take remedial math or english). I believe that change came about around 95 or so.

Oh and they do have to take kids who have an IEP. (sped) In that case they student would probably have to fulfil his/her schools requirments for english and math, which might mean they have to return to their high school daily or it's possible an IEP student might get to take the remedial classes that 'normal' hs students can't...as part of the IEP accomodation.

This option also covers vocational programs, tho when you enroll in a vocational program if it fills up with actual paying students you will get bumped....which I have never heard of happening in college level courses.


35 posted on 05/01/2005 8:50:34 PM PDT by tickles
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