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(Stopping illegals)...& replicating success
The Pittsburgh Tribune Review ^ | 05/04/05 | Editorial staff

Posted on 05/03/2005 9:30:56 PM PDT by smoothsailing

(Stopping illegals) ... & replicating success

Wednesday, May 4, 2005

The lack of a shot heard 'round the world helped make the Minuteman Project successful in Arizona and inviting to California.

The Minuteman Project is a citizens' neighborhood watch spotlighting illegal immigration. It describes itself as "Americans doing the jobs our government won't do. Operating within the law to support enforcement of the law."

In April, roughly 1,000 volunteers kept a lookout for suspicious activity along a 23-mile sliver of sovereign soil bordering Mexico. It had been used by untold numbers of illegal aliens to sneak into America.

The citizen-patriots reported suspicious activity emanating from south of the border to the Border Patrol. And the absence of violence and the virtual elimination of illegal immigration during their watch impressed many Californians including Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

An organization of citizens in California now is planning to replicate the Minuteman Project in the Golden State in August.

President George W. Bush, who cannot find the will to police the Mexican border, still found the time to label them "vigilantes." But the average volunteer was age 40 and more likely to be armed with a lawn chair, a set of binoculars and his cell phone than a gun. Mr. Bush would have been more accurate to call his fellow Americans "irregulars."

Or, ideally, a thousand points of light.

Images and text copyright © 2004 by The Tribune-Review Publishing Co.

(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; buildawall; closetheborder; disease; endradicallatinlobby; fence; gangs; godblessamerica; gopdoyourjob; illegals; legalsonly; minutemanproject; mmp; ms13; nationalsecurity; nocowards; nofreebies; screwlaraza; screwmaldef; screwmecha; wot

1 posted on 05/03/2005 9:30:56 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: Spiff; HiJinx

Interesting....hmmm...


2 posted on 05/03/2005 9:41:33 PM PDT by AZHua87 (Insurgent BloggerVet!)
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To: smoothsailing
Thank you.

I have tried and tried in several replys to say the minute men were not truly minute men, nor were they vigilantes, they were a "neighborhood watch" group.

I believe we should refer to them as such.
3 posted on 05/03/2005 10:08:32 PM PDT by frannie ( Don't fear tommorrow, -- God is already there)
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To: frannie; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3rdcanyon; 4.1O dana super trac pak; ...
Click to see other threads related to illegal aliens in America
Click to FR-mail me for addition or removal

Well, somebody gets it!

4 posted on 05/03/2005 10:17:22 PM PDT by HiJinx (~ www.ProudPatriots.org ~ Operation 4th of July ~)
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To: HiJinx

If we could just explain to people in other states what it's like to live in ones that have been "invaded," America would be united behind stopping illegal immigration.


5 posted on 05/03/2005 10:19:58 PM PDT by risk
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To: frannie; HiJinx
My pleasure!

I really like the reference to "a thousand points of light".For folks too young to remember it was a term used often by the first President Bush to represent volunteer service to your community or your country.

A not too subtle way of reminding the current President Bush of what a "neighborhood watch" can accomplish.

6 posted on 05/03/2005 10:40:01 PM PDT by smoothsailing (Qui Nhon Turtle Co.)
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To: risk
If we could just explain to people in other states what it's like to live in ones that have been "invaded," America would be united behind stopping illegal immigration.

...and these are not just border states. I just saw a report about Danbury Conn. explaining how costs associated with crime and gov't dependency have skyrocketed due to illegal immigration. Here in the DC area, there are several enclaves wherein one is obliged to learn Spanish in order to function.

This is not a racial thing -- tengo la sangre -- it is a matter of controlling the numbers to allow for assimilation. Otherwise this country will increasingly resemble the places from whence these illegals came.

Massive illigale immigration also removes the incentive for Mexico to make itself a place where their nationals would prefer to stay.
7 posted on 05/03/2005 11:14:30 PM PDT by walford (http://utopia-unmasked.us)
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To: smoothsailing

...A thousand points of light on the border.....apparently we need a million to "get the point" across to the "missing in action" government......


8 posted on 05/03/2005 11:14:33 PM PDT by Route101
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To: smoothsailing
President George W. Bush, who cannot find the will to police the Mexican border,

It's not a matter of finding the will. It's a matter of finding the money and man power. Between 1990 and 2000, the U.S. increased the number of Border Patrol Agents from 3,600 to 10,000. During that same period illegal immigration rose by 5.5. million. The Minuteman Project appears to have been successful in thwarting illegal entry. The combination of citizen observers, media attention, and increased border agents (Dubya added border agents in April to deter MMP members from acting outside the law) has apparently been successful in reducing illegal entry in Arizona.

People like myself wonder what the motivations of the MMP members are, but if they can control themselves and assist in border apprehensions, motivations are a lesser concern.

9 posted on 05/03/2005 11:32:26 PM PDT by Once-Ler ("They call me 'The Pork King,' they don't know how much I enjoy it." - Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: Once-Ler
So let's see, You say stationing more agents on the borders doesn't work and people who are willing to take their own time and money to help do the job all those agents don't seem to be able to do have questionable motives.

How exactly (or approximately for that matter) would you suggest we stop what is for all intents and purposes an invasion of Germanic proportions?

There are those of us (about whose motivations you would no doubt wonder) who believe that a combination of still more border enforcement, north and south, as well as the conviction and imprisonment of the heads of certain large enterprises (say in the meat packing, poultry or construction industries) might just have the desired effect.
10 posted on 05/03/2005 11:52:52 PM PDT by InABunkerUnderSF (San Francisco - See It Before God Smites It.)
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Comment #11 Removed by Moderator

Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: InABunkerUnderSF
So let's see, You say stationing more agents on the borders doesn't work and people who are willing to take their own time and money to help do the job all those agents don't seem to be able to do have questionable motives.

I didn't write any such thing, and please don't respond to me until you learn to read. I made a statement of facts. If you have a problem with facts then either get used to Freepers treating you like a retard, or address the facts. I'll repeat the facts because I know you are not very bright...Between 1990 and 2000, the U.S. increased the number of Border Patrol Agents from 3,600 to 10,000. During that same period illegal immigration rose by 5.5. million. Have a nice day.

13 posted on 05/04/2005 12:09:15 AM PDT by Once-Ler ("They call me 'The Pork King,' they don't know how much I enjoy it." - Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: hellbilly

...copy muzzle flashes!....


14 posted on 05/04/2005 12:10:43 AM PDT by Route101
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To: Route101
...copy muzzle flashes!....

copy arrests and murder charges. Wouldn't that suck? Being charged with murder of non-citizens. That would make one a big fan of the La Nuestra Familia.

15 posted on 05/04/2005 12:25:26 AM PDT by Once-Ler ("They call me 'The Pork King,' they don't know how much I enjoy it." - Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: Once-Ler
It's not a matter of finding the will. It's a matter of finding the money and man power. Between 1990 and 2000, the U.S. increased the number of Border Patrol Agents from 3,600 to 10,000.

It most certainly is a matter of political will! You seem to think that 10,000 Border Patrol Agents is a lot? There are just short of 40,000 cops in New York City. I think our 6000 miles of border deserve a protective force of at least that size particularly since it is clear that the current force is woefully inadequate.

Since 9/11, the TSA went from 0 to 44,000 baggage screeners in 4 short years. In that same period, the Administration and Congress has managed to only grow the Border Patrol by maybe 1500 people. If it was possible to hire and train 44,000 baggage screeners then it should have been possible to do a little better with the Border Patrol. In a considerably shorter time period we have managed to train a 150,000 people for the Iraqi Army. Growing the Border Patrol is clearly a matter of will and we have not seen it.

I recently received a letter from my Senator saying that we only have the capability of training about 500 Border Patrol Agents per year. To me that is just a matter of will. We have military bases in mothballs; let's use them.

The President clearly lacks that will. Congress authorized 2000 agents next year and he budgeted a measly 210. You can say that is about money but he had no difficulty finding a billion dollars to send to Indonesia for the Tsunami. I don't mind helping the rest of the world but protecting America has to come first. If money is an issue how about eliminating the National Endowment for the Arts rather than increasing its budget?

16 posted on 05/04/2005 6:00:02 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: HiJinx
Not only should the invasion of our country be stopped, but illegal aliens should be deported.

I don't know if anyone saw yesterday's "Law & Order SVU." I stopped watching after ten minutes when the moaning and groaning started over the wonderful "undocumented" something or other. In the past, I've seen an offensive pro-illegal alien bias in several L&O shows. Perhaps in the end of this show they were deported - but I doubt it.

17 posted on 05/04/2005 6:38:18 AM PDT by Dante3
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To: frannie
I have tried and tried in several replys to say the minute men were not truly minute men, nor were they vigilantes, they were a "neighborhood watch" group.

I believe we should refer to them as such.

The "government" likes to refer to illegal aliens as "people coming across the border to do job that the American people wont do".

I think we should refer to the volunteer border patrol as "people going to the border to do jobs that the American government wont do"

18 posted on 05/04/2005 6:47:15 AM PDT by SwankyC (1st Bn 11th Marines Semper Fi)
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To: Once-Ler
Between 1990 and 2000, the U.S. increased the number of Border Patrol Agents from 3,600 to 10,000.

Do you have a source for that? It seems I heard something awhile ago that indicated there's nothing close to 10000 border patrol agents.

19 posted on 05/04/2005 6:50:47 AM PDT by SwankyC (1st Bn 11th Marines Semper Fi)
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To: HiJinx

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Be Ever Vigilant!

Minutemen Patriots ~ Bump!


20 posted on 05/04/2005 8:47:02 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: Once-Ler
"Dubya added border agents in April to deter MMP members from acting outside the law) "

At the same exact time as agents rounded up top ms-13 leaders. I don't think it was the MMP he was worried about stirring up trouble.

21 posted on 05/04/2005 9:38:07 AM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: smoothsailing

MMP bump.


22 posted on 05/04/2005 9:39:19 AM PDT by lodwick (Integrity has no need of rules. Albert Camus)
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To: SwankyC
Do you have a source for that?

Discovery Institute - News - Welcome to America

23 posted on 05/04/2005 9:00:39 PM PDT by Once-Ler ("They call me 'The Pork King,' they don't know how much I enjoy it." - Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: monkeywrench
At the same exact time as agents rounded up top ms-13 leaders. I don't think it was the MMP he was worried about stirring up trouble.

Perhaps then it was both groups. Good to hear one on your side admit something is being done to stop MS13. Probably an accident.

24 posted on 05/04/2005 9:04:22 PM PDT by Once-Ler ("They call me 'The Pork King,' they don't know how much I enjoy it." - Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: jackbenimble
The President clearly lacks that will. Congress authorized 2000 agents next year and he budgeted a measly 210.

I don't know what world you live in but in the real world The President doesn't authorize budgets. Congress does. try again.

If Dubya could get Congress to pay for more border agents it would be done. If your side could convince a majority of voters to defend the border it would be done. Do you ever question why pipsqueek congressmen like Tancredo are your only allies? Do you ever stop and question why if a majority of Americans want border control they keep on voting for the OBL Senators?

25 posted on 05/04/2005 9:14:03 PM PDT by Once-Ler ("They call me 'The Pork King,' they don't know how much I enjoy it." - Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: Once-Ler
I don't know what world you live in but in the real world The President doesn't authorize budgets. Congress does. try again.

In December of 2004, Congress passed the 911 Security Bill which authorized (but did not budget or appropriate which are the next steps in the process) the hiring of 10,000 new Border Patrol Agents in increments of 2000 per year for 5 years beginning in 2006. At the time President Bush praised that bill.

In February of 2005, barely two months after praising the previous bill, President Bush submitted his "proposed budget" (and, yes, Presidents do PROPOSE budgets in the real world) and he only requested funding for 210 of the authorized 2000 agents.

For this he has received bipartisan criticism in both the House and the Senate and both chambers have added back funding to the Budget for the full 2000 agents. These budgets have been passed and I believe a final Budget Resolution has been agreed to recently in Joint House Senate Conference which, despite Dubya's efforts to keep the border patrol weak includes funds for 2000 new agents in 2006.

Now that the budget has been set, the final step will be for Congress to actually appropriate funds. That will happen as part of the Appropriations process which typically takes place in late fall. Appropriations don't always match the budget but it appears that we are on the right track.

As a further stick in Dubya's eye regarding the Border Patrol funding issue, as part of the Iraq War Supplemental Funding Bill which has just been finalized in Joint House Senate Committee yesterday and which will likely be passed in final form by the House this week and the Senate next week, the Congress appropriated funds to hire about 500 new Border Patrol Agents and 150 new ICE Agents this year (2005). I think this amendment by Robert Byrd and its success took everybody who follows this issue by surprise. The President certainly did not request this increase in Border Patrol funding.

In light of the facts, your assertion that, "If Dubya could get Congress to pay for more border agents it would be done" does not stand up. Congress wants them; Dubya does not! Try again!

26 posted on 05/05/2005 8:56:46 AM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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To: Once-Ler

Well, considering it was the aclu, ms-13, vicente fox and friends making all the threats, I'd say the feds concluded that they were the threat.


27 posted on 05/05/2005 9:38:48 AM PDT by monkeywrench
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To: jackbenimble
Congress wants them; Dubya does not! Try again!

I'm not going to argue with you about who writes budgets. If you want to believe President Bush can submit a budget that Congress is incapable of altering then why should I bother to correct you.

I have proven your assertions false, but you are not required to be a man and admit your error.

28 posted on 05/05/2005 6:25:17 PM PDT by Once-Ler ("They call me 'The Pork King,' they don't know how much I enjoy it." - Sen. Robert Byrd)
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To: Once-Ler
I am well aware that the President's budget proposal is not binding on Congress and in my previous post I gave a perfect example. The President proposed funding only 210 new Border Patrol agents and Congress disregarded his inadequate proposal and increased the budget to 2000 new agents.

I have proven your assertions false, but you are not required to be a man and admit your error.

My original assertion was: The President clearly lacks that will. Congress authorized 2000 agents next year and he budgeted a measly 210.

You have not offered an iota of proof that in anyway refutes that assertion except this ridiculous statement: If Dubya could get Congress to pay for more border agents it would be done

In my last post I shredded that argument with the actual facts about the interaction between President Bush and Congress and it is Bush that is asking for less and Congress that is demanding more border patrol agents.

29 posted on 05/05/2005 7:02:13 PM PDT by jackbenimble (Import the third world, become the third world)
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