Posted on 05/04/2005 4:50:17 AM PDT by Cornpone
KARMAH, Iraq — Lance Cpl. Erin Libby doesn’t want to be treated the same as her male Marine Corps counterparts. But she does want to be treated as an equal — even in combat.
In a way, she got her chance last weekend when Marines from the 3rd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment led a raid into the city of Karmah in search of high-value targets and hidden weapons.
“We’re out here, and we’re rocking on the front line,” said Libby, a 21-year-old from Niceville, Fla., who pinned on the rank of lance corporal during a break in the mission.
In all, 14 women from Combat Logistics Battalion 8 were called away from their usual jobs of supplying ammunition, food, water, fuel and mail for the three-day offensive that kicked off in the pre-dawn hours Saturday about 15 miles northeast of Fallujah.
Cultural sensitivities precluded male Marines from searching women, so the female Marines were meant to deflate fears of Iraqi men and women, said the battalion executive officer, Maj. Larry Miller. It was a first in Iraq to have female Marines embedded at the lowest levels of infantry companies and working alongside their male counterparts, said Chief Warrant Officer 2 Jill St. John, 39, an embark officer with CLB-8.
“This is history. This is huge for us,” St. John said. “I’ve been in the Marine Corps for 18 years, and this is my first opportunity to be out with an infantry company. Even five years ago, the Marine Corps wouldn’t be doing this. This is a major change in how we think women can be used in the military.”
While female Marines were used in similar fashion during missions in Afghanistan, they were not fully integrated with line companies, St. John said.
“It wasn’t quite as dynamic as this. They’d wait at a camp in the rear and were called in when needed, often called in for resupply,” such as bringing in food and water.
“I’m so sick of hearing females can’t do this and females can’t do that. Blah, blah, blah,” said Cpl. Rachel Bergstrong, 20, of Cumming, Ga. “We’re in it as much as the grunts, and we love it.”
The battalion’s Lima and India companies absorbed the women into their ranks, giving them the primary mission to search women and children suspected of hiding anything. But the female Marines’ presence was not intended to show a softer side of the Marine Corps, said Capt. Mark Liston, commander of India Company.
“They’re still a fighting force for us,” he said. “With them, we can grab a wife [of a suspected insurgent], for example, put the screws to her, and find out where the husband might be hiding. And while it hasn’t been used here, [the insurgency has] been known to use female suicide bombers,” Liston said.
But there were times in which the softer side appeared in both the male and female Marines. When they weren’t raiding homes and businesses, the Marines were on humanitarian missions, handing out food, water and toys, especially to the hordes of children who flocked to the streets when the Humvees rolled in.
“Whenever I read about these humanitarian missions, I always thought it was so cheesy,” Libby said after tossing out handfuls of stuffed animals. “Now I’m the one sounding cheesy, but I like this. It makes you feel good inside.”
They’re often referred to as the WMs, or women Marines. They hate it, and the crass distortions of the acronym some say they’ve heard.
“We’re Marines, bottom line,” said Cpl. Dawn Lansberry, 31.
“I’m out here to prove a point,” Libby said. “A lot of males think females are weak. It’s time to shine, and I’m going to leave here golden.”
There are women who are cut out for front line battle. Not me. I'm a strictly behind the scenes person.
Ping...
No one is more lethal than a woman with PMS.
Just dont get one captured.
Why? Do you think what would happen to them would be any worse than what would happen to a man? Don't forget that because of the repressed sexual politics of the Muslim culture a full 20 percent of these heathens are homosexuals or perverts that express themselves through beastiality. It ain't going to be any worse for a woman than a man.
Maybe from her point of view...but what do you think an al-jazeera tape of 20-30 arabs gang-raping a pretty US female soldier would do to troop morale and support for the war at home?
Our enemies have shown that they know how to use the media to their advantage. Sooner or later, it will happen.
Get your ass from behind that keyboard and join up. The reason so many women are creeping toward the front lines is because there aren't enough men to take their places.
Young christian and animist boys report being raped by muslim militants in Sudan and Uganda. I can easily see a man getting raped by another man because it's degredation. That's why it's done in prisons.
So Male soldiers risk getting raped by 20 percent of their captors.
The females risk getting raped by 100 percent of their captors, probably multiple times.
Thanks, I'll take my chances as a male.
We could supply you with an armored HumVee, 3,000-watt speakers and woofers and the Greatest of the '80s CD collection from Time-Life. You'd be fine.
get 'em outta my squad.
They've already been captured.
As for troop morale I would imagine it would make it a little difficult to keep them from killing every raghead they see on the street. As for the folks back home? Know your enemy for what it is and destroy it.
I'll consider your statement to be true when there are no more male REMFs.
Until then, you're full of it.
LOL!!! See? Actually I hear our guys and gals still do listen to 80s music in Iraq which makes me happy :-)
There's no way the rampant leftism in our military and in the press would allow our troops to kill random ragheads. Same for average Americans "knowing their enemy and destroying it."
Our leftists simply will not let us fight in the proper way.
hi5
There's more to being in the infantry than carrying a gun and I want my brother by my side not my sister. It's war!!
Well, we could start by eliminating the reduced physical fitness, height and weight standards. The promotion and selection quota's probably ought to go as well.
Resume the Draft, as we've done in all of our other wars, and it won't be necessary...
I think the standards should be the same. I had a female training instructor that trained women according to male standards. She was one tough b*tch too OMG.
Darn few if any female grunts could haul an M-249 and 300 rounds around all day.
But then again, not every guy is man enough to handle the SAW ;-)
It seems the Marines need all the help they can get and now they're happy to be getting it from their WMs.
We used to call them BAMs (but only out of hearing)
To form an opinion all one has to do is watch the currently running Marine training film airing on Military channel.
URRRRAAAAH BABY.
One thing though. I think after an IED ambush, some of our ladys might do a fine job of interrogating those male scumbags. It would do wonders for their arab male mindset to see a woman yelling and kicking their ass.
This social engineering of the armed forces is ruining it. Women do not belong in combat, period, end of story.
I googled up BAM easy enough. I still can't find the alternate meaning for WM. What is it?
I can't figure out why the media can't abbreviate state names correctly:
"Niceville, Fla."
WTF is Fla.? Florida? FL? F.L. F.L.O.R?
The same is true in Afghanistan where "bad guys" hide under burkas. Females troops are definitely a critical element to search the women.
That's right sweetheart.. being a Marine is all about you....
I believe as a platoon sergeant who has had the honor of taking my troops overseas, living in a desert, and returning all of them safely home, I have at least a little authority on the subject.
KEEP FEMALES OUT OF COMBAT!
I was always better with my M16A1 & A2 and finally my M4. However, I liked having the SAW firepower near me as we didn't have M60's my last 6 years or so.
Of course rocking and rolling with the M2 and MK19 was jolly fun but thankfully we didn't have to carry those.
And NO, a women should NOT be in combat.
Someone needs to discuss some basic physiology with her. Women are physically weaker than men, and Marine infantry-style combat is a physically demanding work of the highest order. A Marine unit fights as a unit, and forging weak links into that chain weakens the entire chain, and places the lives of all in greater danger.
Social experimenters will protest that even an all-male unit has its weakest male member. And they might even try to argue that there are some women who are stronger than some weak men. Although they would be right in both cases in a narrow and limited sense, they would be dangerously wrong in a larger sense. The exceptions do not disprove the general rule, and they do not form a persuasive reason for changing the policy that keeps women out of front-line combat.
A more insidious effect of allowing women to serve in front-line combat is that it serves further to dilute traditional gender roles thereby further weakens the traditional family (we have diluted those roles so much already that I am confident that my even raising the point in warning will generate sneer of derision from some conservatives, not just liberals). When women are viewed simply as smaller men, we have a disaster in the making vis a vis the families of America.
It would really piss off our troops, and the terrorists had better watch out. I'm not too sure about this assumption of rape anyway, as the women captured in the initial war, and in the Gulf War, were treated well -- better than the men. That is part of their religion.
Most soldiers wouldn't be able to do that. However, I knew a woman soldier who could.
Maybe an old timer. That used to be FL's abbreviatation back in the day before they shortened all states to just 2 letter abbreviations. But you're right it's long out of date.
Hillary is a great person to look at for an examination of strength and weaknesses and she would have to admit that she has more weaknesses.....and then she should take into account that without Bubba, she would likely be a nobody at this point in time. Heard she still hates to be called Mrs. Clinton....but that is who she is.
You know one woman who could do this? This is your justification for changing the policy that keeps women out of comabt?
One can prove many an inane theory by cherry-picking one exceptional case to buttress his argument. Implementing inane theories in a combat setting has disastrous consequences.
Baloney!
Baloney!
Did you see the spoof MadTV did on women on submarines called "Crimson Tide"? It was hilarious and clearly showed why........
I better stop.
Tell that to an old girlfriend of mine who was an Army sergeant. She looked fairly normal physique-wise, but she could run any man in her company into the ground, and most likely could have easily kicked my ass. Glad I never pissed her off. There was a female in another company who was built like a tank, and was the best deuce-and-a-half driver I've ever seen (if you've driven them, you know the upper body strength it takes). She was also our M-60 gunner.
Granted, such women are the exception rather than the rule. But in an military where you're supposed to excel, why hold these exceptional women back? Let them prove themselves. Let them take the male PT test, let them hump it with the rest. If they can hack it during exercises then let them fight, if not, well, buh-bye!
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