Posted on 05/04/2005 3:40:19 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
"When the Soviets invaded the Baltic States, the decision for many male Latvians, Estonians, and Lithuanians was a simple one---be once again under Russian control or join the Germany army and fight alongside them against Stalin and his troops.===
But what was german army on thier territories? If ther wasn't soviet army then german army will be same occupators.
DO you know that those latvians, estonians and lithvinians fought in rows of soviet army against german occupation of baltic states.
Surprised isn't it? BUT it is FACT that number of baltrics in rows of csoviet army was bigger then in german SS.
Interesting how do you think about SS troops? ARE they new "good guys" for you?"
Hey Ivan. Quit reinventing history and quit putting words in my mouth. The Germans must have made a wrong turn after agreeing with Stalin to split Poland with Russia. Is that in your new history books?
Let me rephrase what I said...The Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians of the WWII-era hated the Russians-pure and simple. The enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of approach. Today, however, after feeding off the teats of the Soviet, the new generation is infected with the same old communist mentality that still permeates Russia, East Germany, and unfortunately, the Baltic States.
The Baltic citizenry who immigrated to the U.S. after WWII think the new generation coming over is lazy. My in-laws are all DPs. My father-in-law was in the German army. They still hate Russians.
Lizol--this hymn is a creation of Sergei Mikhalkov--favorite poet of Stalin. You definitely can't separate the history of Russia from the History of Soviet Union--it's a sheer absurd to do so.
"I just asked you and other to be not overhelmed by these and think what would happen if soviet armies stooped on western border of USSR. "
From a strategic standpoint of completely defeating Nazi Germany, it would be inconceivable to stop at the Western Border of USSR and let Hitler to regroup. My point is to look at what happened at the Soviet Zone of Occupation at the end and after World War II. One Russian Journalist (don't remember her name) said very well--"liberators were turned into oppressors" by Stalin policies in the region. Let's not mix the Strategic significance of the Soviet Westward advance to Berlin, with the policies of Stalin regime in the Eastern Europe.
"Wrong. It is a joke, and you're crazy"
I should have expressed myself more clearly. For a few years after WWII the US had a great advantage over USSR and they could use it in exerting pressure on Stalin to abide by the Yalta agreements. According to them Russian were to allow free democratic elections in Poland, Czechoslovakia and other countries of Eastern Europe. Instead they rigged eletions in Poland, made a coup in Czechoslovakia, smothered patriotic underground in those countries and turned them into Russian property. Americans could have used their nukes as a threat and an argument in "discussion" with Stalin. A few years later it was too late because Stalin got hold of nukes too.
I shoudn't have written that the US would have done good just to nuke Russia. My fault, sorry. But yes, I am a bit crazy.
The Hymn of the Soviet Union
Unbreakable Union of freeborn Republics,
Great Russia has welded forever to stand.===
Soviet Hymn is deceptive as soviet. Sergei Mikhalkov was creator so maybe he wanted or better to say asked to make desgise.
This thing is same kind as capital of USSR was Moscow. Right it was Moscow. Even the residence of Partriach the Moscow Kremlin was chosen as resindence of Soviet Goverment.
Anyway it was SOVIET UNION but not russian union or Russia. Same time there was Polish People Republic. DOn't you see difference in aproach?
"Anyway it was SOVIET UNION but not russian union or Russia. Same time there was Polish People Republic. DOn't you see difference in aproach?"
No difference. Soviet Union was created by Russians, and People's Republic of Poland was created by Russians too.
Americans could have used their nukes as a threat and an argument in "discussion" with Stalin. A few years later it was too late because Stalin got hold of nukes too.
I shoudn't have written that the US would have done good just to nuke Russia. ==
OK I understand. It is fair play to threaten but not use.
Accually americans did you say when during Podsdam Conference. Stalin got message.
He knew about nuclier development from 1942. At same time soveit nuclier program began. In 1945 Soviet Union already has active nuclier reactor and few facilities to enrich uranium.
AS temporary solution until workable device there were designs of "dirty bomb" created.
SO this anvantage of United States wasn't very big. And were very temporary.
Soviet Union was created by Russians, ==
This is the root of your mistakes.
Soviet Union was created by international communists. Poland was created by polish communists with support of uSSR of cause.
"It is fair play to threaten but not use. "
If you threat you must be ready to use when things come to a head. Otherwise the threat makes no sense.
Well, I don't know. Let's apply this logic to other examples: It was not Germans who killed 6 million Jews, but forces of international fascism? It was not Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbour, but forces of international militarism? You may say so, but it stinks. If you want to be proud of your country's achievements, you must also take responsibity for the evil that it did. We may of course pretend that such things as "nations" don't exist, but unfortunately they do.
It was not Germans who killed 6 million Jews, but forces of international fascism? It was not Japanese who bombed Pearl Harbour, but forces of international militarism? You may say so, but it stinks. If you want to be proud of your country's achievements, you must also take responsibity for the evil that it did.===
It was germans and japanese since it was thier goverment, army and people.
SOviet Goverment wasn't russian goverment even by name! This goverment wasn't elected by russians and was headed by ethnically nonrussian people.
It is like if Britain was headed by indian and called Comonwealth of english speaking people. But you still called in Britain. You might but I'm sure that britons would be loudly against it. Same as I.
"SOviet Goverment wasn't russian goverment even by name! This goverment wasn't elected by russians and was headed by ethnically nonrussian people.
It is like if Britain was headed by indian and called Comonwealth of english speaking people. But you still called in Britain. You might but I'm sure that britons would be loudly against it. Same as I."
Oh really? So tell me please why so many people in Russia support cummunists, Zhirinovsky an the like, and democratically elected President of your country (ethnic Russian I hope) says that collapse of USSR was the biggest disaster of the XXth century? I appreciate your attempts to save Russia's good name, but they are tragically misguided.
So tell me please why so many people in Russia support cummunists, Zhirinovsky an the like, and democratically elected President of your country (ethnic Russian I hope) says that collapse of USSR was the biggest disaster of the XXth century? ==
Hoiw many? As fa as I checked. For Zhirik was about 5%. For commies which in reallity are nothing very different of laborists of Britain and other socialists was about 15%.
Far from majority.
About Putin's phrase it was distorted by jornalists.
He said that "the fall of USSR was biggest GEOPOLITICAL CATASTROPHY of XX century". What wrong with that?
USSR was big and it was fall with many dusts and even few local wars. Isn't it catastrophy?
Was tsunami in Indean Ocean in January catastrohy too?
Was World War 2 a geopolitical catastrophe? or World War I? the Russian Revolution?
Was World War 2 a geopolitical catastrophe? or World War I? the Russian Revolution?==
I think yes. Probably even bigger.
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