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How long can Bush spin big lies into truth on Iraq war? (GREELEY ALERT)
Chicago Sun-Times ^ | May 6, 2005 | ANDREW GREELEY

Posted on 05/06/2005 10:06:57 AM PDT by Chi-townChief

As the criminal, sinful war in Iraq enters its third year, the president is in Europe to heal the wounds between the United States and its former allies, on his own terms, of course. The White House propaganda mill hails it as another victory for the president and ignores the fact that most Europeans still consider the war dangerous folly and the president a dangerous fool.

One hears new rationalizations for the war on this side of the Atlantic. After the hearings on Secretary Rice, a Republican senator, with all the self-righteous anger that characterizes many such, proclaimed, "The Democrats just have to understand that the president really believed there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq."

This justification is not unlike the one heard frequently at the White House, "The president believed the intelligence agencies of the world."

Would it not be much better to have a president who deliberately lied to the people because he thought a war was essential than to have one who was so dumb as to be taken in by intelligence agencies, especially those who told him what he wanted to hear?

It is also asserted that the election settled the matters of the war and the torture of prisoners. These are dead issues that no longer need be addressed.

But the president received only 51 percent of the vote and carried only one more state than the last time (picking up New Mexico and Iowa and losing New Hampshire). This is a validation of the war and of prisoner abuse? This is a mandate to do whatever he wants to do and whatever the leadership of the evangelical denominations want? A percentage point and a single state are a mandate for more war? Never before in American political history!

Finally, we are told that the Iraqi election confirms the Bush administration policy in Iraq. The president's supporters must be in deep trouble to reach so far for that one. All the election proves is that the Iraqis want to run their own country. It also raises the possibility that Shia clerics will deliver Iraq into the hands of the Iranians. Some kind of victory!

How do these kinds of arguments play in the precincts? The survey data suggest that war has become more unpopular. The majority of the American people now think it was a mistake, in a shift away from the 51 percent that endorsed it on Election Day. Admittedly this is only a small change in the population, from a majority to a minority. Nor do the changers earn grace for their new opinions. They still endorsed the war on Election Day and are still responsible for it.

How long can the administration get along with its policies of spinning big lies into truth -- as it has more recently done on Social Security?

Note the three most important Cabinet positions. Rice said that it was better to find the weapons of mass destruction than to see a mushroom cloud.

"Judge" Gonzales said the Geneva Convention was "quaint" and in effect legitimated the de facto policy of torture.

Rumsfeld repealed the "Powell Doctrine" -- only go to war when you have the massive force necessary to win decisively and quickly. Brilliant businessman that he is (like Robert McNamara of the Vietnam era), he thought he could win with 130,000 troops (unlike the at least 200,000 that the Army chief of staff insisted) and hence made the current "insurgency" inevitable.

The presence of these three towering giants in the administration certainly confirms that the president is confident that he is "right" on Iraq and that he has mandates from the American people and from God which confirm that he is "right."

Nothing, in other words, has changed in the last two years. The war is still the "right thing to do," it is still part of the "war against terrorism," it is still essential to keep Arabs from blowing up our skyscrapers.

You can still get away with the "big lie" as long as Karl Rove and his team of spinners keep providing persuasive rationalizations. The American public is still supine, uneasy about the war, but not willing yet to turn decisively against it. Will that still be the case next year when we "celebrate" the third anniversary of the war? Is the patience of the American people that long-suffering? Is there no outrage left in the country? How many people have to die before the public realizes that American foreign policy is a tissue of lies?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Illinois; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: andrewgreeley; greeley; hateamericafilth; hatingamerica
Once again, Greeley is concerned with what the decadent Euroscum think and is worried about our "earning grace." Meanwhile, he spins his own lies about the new pope:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1395270/posts

1 posted on 05/06/2005 10:07:07 AM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: Chi-townChief

...and the horse you rode in on, Greeley.


2 posted on 05/06/2005 10:08:07 AM PDT by RockinRight (Conservatism is common sense, liberalism is just senseless.)
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To: Chi-townChief

If they are "former allies" does that mean that they can now pay for their own defense?


3 posted on 05/06/2005 10:10:44 AM PDT by Sthitch
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To: Chi-townChief

What are the circluation numbers for the Chicago Sun-Times these days?


4 posted on 05/06/2005 10:10:55 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Andrew Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Chi-townChief

Hey Padre, go back to writing your cheap novels.


5 posted on 05/06/2005 10:12:12 AM PDT by Semper Paratus (-)
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To: Semper Paratus

Exactly.

How the Church lets him write such tripe and run off at the mouth is beyond me.


6 posted on 05/06/2005 10:13:09 AM PDT by clee1 (We use 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 2 to pull a trigger. I'm lazy and I'm tired of smiling.)
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To: Chi-townChief
Chicago Sun Times. Knough said.

BTW, I love the Cubs. Best place to watch baseball.
I was stuck in Skokie for a few years working and loved to skip out of work and take the L to the game. Even though I'm a Pittsburgh kind of guy, I could live in Chicago in a heart beat. There are no better people.

7 posted on 05/06/2005 10:13:40 AM PDT by AGreatPer
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To: Chi-townChief

The war is over idiot.


8 posted on 05/06/2005 10:14:13 AM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: Chi-townChief
Keep talkin' Greeley. Fake priest, fake prognosticator.

I really wonder why the Chi-Trib would print such a sophomoric editorial.

Whatever else this loser is, a good writer, he aint.

9 posted on 05/06/2005 10:14:43 AM PDT by keithtoo (Howard Dean's Democratic Party: Traitors, Haters, and Vacillators)
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To: Chi-townChief
Would it not be much better to have a president who deliberately lied to the people because he thought a war was essential than to have one who was so dumb as to be taken in by intelligence agencies, especially those who told him what he wanted to hear?

How about one who believe what the previous President had believed? The previous President, who was roundly regarded as one of the smartest Presidents we have ever had. He believed and has stated so recently, that Iraq had WMD. Heck, he made it a national policy to get rid of Saddam..

10 posted on 05/06/2005 10:14:44 AM PDT by Paradox ("It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."- Robert E. Lee)
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To: RockinRight
As the criminal, sinful war in Iraq enters its third year

I just LOVE the uninformed. After the 1st Gulf War,and the Articles of Surrender that was signed, had Saddam broken just ONE of them, the war could legally begin again as if it never stopped.

He broke, ultimately, 18 resolution. But, why let facvt get in the way of a liberal rant, hmm?

11 posted on 05/06/2005 10:15:04 AM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it.)
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To: keithtoo

Chi-Trib = Chi-SunTimes. Same diff.


12 posted on 05/06/2005 10:15:41 AM PDT by keithtoo (Howard Dean's Democratic Party: Traitors, Haters, and Vacillators)
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To: Chi-townChief

I love it that our effort in Iraq has made this guy's life miserable.


13 posted on 05/06/2005 10:16:43 AM PDT by Kenny Bunkport
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To: Chi-townChief

How long can the MSM pine for their beloved Saddam?


14 posted on 05/06/2005 10:17:42 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Chi-townChief

This idiot greeley wants us to think he knew everything that the President did.

I am so tired of hearing this nonsense.

If the terrorists had flown those planes into a financial landmark in Germany or England I wonder what the response would have been like and how long the eurocrats would have stood there looking at the US waiting for us to help them.

The EU hates America for its success and idiots like Greeley gladly sing their song.


15 posted on 05/06/2005 10:18:09 AM PDT by Pylot
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To: Chi-townChief
This is a validation of the war and of prisoner abuse? This is a mandate to do whatever he wants to do and whatever the leadership of the evangelical denominations want?

What an obnoxious sh-t. He must go to bed every night hoping the Iraq situation gets worse. An ungenerous creep.

16 posted on 05/06/2005 10:20:04 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Chi-townChief

The admistration's silence on Iraq is frustrating. We found artillery shells with mustard gas, and one with sarin. Doesn't that suggest that at one time Saddam did posess stockpiles of WMD's?
But let's look at what we did find. Enough uranium to build a couple of dirty bombs. I beleve enriched weapons grade uranium was also found. The British confirmed last July that Saddam was attempting to purchase uranium from Niger. Well the the U.N. for food fiasco, the Dilfer report, shows the world that Saddam was attempting to buy off sanctions. Once the sanctions were lifted he would be in postion to restart his WMD, nuclear, programs. He'd have a nuke today if we didn't take him out.
Saddam also had more than small little contacts with Al-Qaeda. He gave them safe harbor trained them in the use of chemical weapons at Salman Pak, If Saddam was a man of peace and inner beauty why the hell, as a sign of friendship, din't he hand over Al-Zarqarwi and the other Al-Qaeda thugs that were in Iraq before the war?
Putin said Russia had intell that Saddam was planning future attacks against us. Well, we certainly put a stop to that nonsense.


17 posted on 05/06/2005 10:22:44 AM PDT by jimfrommaine
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To: Chi-townChief

Andrew Greeley....wasn't he a featured nutter on 'Liberal Lunatic' here on FR?


18 posted on 05/06/2005 10:22:45 AM PDT by randog (What the....?!)
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To: Chi-townChief
The left will continue to paint the President as a liar and they would rather do that then allow that he is in fact a man whose cold resolve and earnest goodness have guided the US through what is possibly one if its worst times since the Civil War.

The President holds on to his own ideas and plans with a force of personality which will not bend to the hesitation, doubts or inertia of weaker men who always blather on about idealogical minutia or possible dangers when action is called for. This man has always taken the initiative and demonstrated vision. He thinks things out for himself. It positively KILLS the Liberals that this is such an obvious contrast with his predecessor. Billy boy always just let events evolve and then he would re act to what was happening.....not good enough for the most powerful leader in the universe.

At all times, in all things Bush has shown confidence and has never, EVER once spoken or behaved like a loser! How lucky we are!
19 posted on 05/06/2005 10:30:16 AM PDT by SMARTY
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To: Paleo Conservative
What are the circluation numbers for the Chicago Sun-Times these days?

It's not amoung the top 20, but you may find an clue or answer here.


Circulation of the Top 20 Newspapers

20 posted on 05/06/2005 10:30:43 AM PDT by Arrowhead1952 (TV News and the MSM - - - ROTFLMAO)
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To: Chi-townChief

This guy has either been asleep for the last 3 years or drugged out of his mind. I don't think you could get more details wrong if you tried.


21 posted on 05/06/2005 10:33:41 AM PDT by The Final Harvest (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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To: Chi-townChief
Would it not be much better to have a president who deliberately lied to the people because he thought a war was essential than to have one who was so dumb as to be taken in by intelligence agencies, especially those who told him what he wanted to hear?

Sounds like he is saying that the President shouldn't listen to intelligence agencies, at least not when they agree with him. How then should he make his decisions? Where would he get his information to make an informed policy decision? Of course the President should listen to the reports of the intelligence agencies! To ignore them would just be idiotic and irresponsible. Those that criticize him for taking crediance in those reports are "so dumb as to be taken in by..." their vial hatred of the President.

22 posted on 05/06/2005 10:36:52 AM PDT by usapatriot28
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To: Chi-townChief

"Would it not be much better to have a president who deliberately lied to the people because he thought a war was essential than to have one who was so dumb as to be taken in by intelligence agencies, especially those who told him what he wanted to hear?""

Yep, those French and Russian intel agencies who confirmed they thought the WMD existed were telling Bush what he wanted to hear. /sarcasm


23 posted on 05/06/2005 10:37:35 AM PDT by Shermy
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: Chi-townChief

"(GREELEY ALERT)"

Is Greeley a synonym for barf?


25 posted on 05/06/2005 10:44:53 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: rwa265

Absolutely.


26 posted on 05/06/2005 10:45:54 AM PDT by Chi-townChief
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: Chi-townChief
The war in Iraq seemed to be Bush's way of launching an offensive against terrorists, WMD's notwithstanding. Whether that was a good strategy, I don't know. However, in spite of the anti-American media nipping at his heels, Bush has stayed focused and now we're starting to hear reports of significant damage to the Al-Queda personnel and structure.

The Muslim terrorists started this war with 9/11. If it were up to the liberal-socialists, we'd probably all be getting Korans and rugs by now, as part of a politically-correct diversity, understanding and tolerance program. Thank God for leadership that doesn't fold under the incessant media sabotage.
28 posted on 05/06/2005 10:54:23 AM PDT by Jim 0216
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To: Chi-townChief
As the criminal, sinful war in Iraq...

Who is this nutcase?

29 posted on 05/06/2005 10:54:36 AM PDT by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
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To: Chi-townChief
"The White House propaganda mill hails it as another victory for the president and ignores the fact that most Europeans still consider the war dangerous folly"

If the Iraq War was so "unpopular," Blair wouldn't have been re-elected in Britain yesterday...and Chirac/Schroeder wouldn't be BEHIND in the polls for their own re-elections in France and Germany.

So clearly Greeley doesn't understand what Europeans think because he's got it all backwards...he can't explain the EU elections that clearly contradict his own mad ravings.

30 posted on 05/06/2005 10:58:14 AM PDT by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Chi-townChief

In other words, "Why won't you stupid voters realize that Iraq is Vietnam like we, your benevolent and superior masters on the Left, have been telling you."


31 posted on 05/06/2005 11:01:25 AM PDT by FlipWilson
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To: htwohtwon; Admin Moderator

Well, look, my apologies to all if this post is inappropriate. Moderator, feel free to remove my post if it is wholly inappropriate. I hope my posting history will show that I am not a constant proliferator of profanity...the use just seemed to fit this article; I ask for MY account to NOT be suspended.


32 posted on 05/06/2005 11:11:22 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: Recovering_Democrat

Ah, I see. It HAS been removed already. My apologies again to anyone offended. I'm done apologizing now.


33 posted on 05/06/2005 11:12:07 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (I'm so glad to no longer be associated with the Party of Dependence on Government!)
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To: rwa265
Is Greeley a synonym for barf?

"Dude, stop the car! I think I'm gonna Greeley!"

34 posted on 05/06/2005 11:20:35 AM PDT by Luddite Patent Counsel ("Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx)
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To: rwa265
Is Greeley a synonym for barf?

I think < Greeley > That I < greeley > drank to much < greeley > last night... yeah I think so....
35 posted on 05/06/2005 11:30:46 AM PDT by MikefromOhio
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To: Chi-townChief

I guess that liberals, like Greeley, are immune to War-by-Intelligence Failure since they never believe what the intelligence services are telling them -- even if the conclusions are unanimous. I guess they just get out the Ouija Board or hold a seance when they need "The Facts".


36 posted on 05/06/2005 1:32:26 PM PDT by Tallguy
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To: AGreatPer
I could live in Chicago in a heart beat. There are no better people.

Yes indeed!
37 posted on 05/06/2005 4:27:13 PM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges
Yes,Chicago is great. I walked into a bar there and felt like I was their long lost friend. Try that in many cities (Yes, Pittsburgh is the same) and they think you are strange.

Go Cubs and Pirates. No matter what your record is.

38 posted on 05/06/2005 5:19:09 PM PDT by AGreatPer
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To: AGreatPer

It's a big city with a small town feel.


39 posted on 05/06/2005 5:55:33 PM PDT by Borges
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To: Borges
I like talking about Chicago better than this Greeley writer. He is such a jerk. Why bother?

The place I stayed in Chicago was surrounded by Hesedic Jews (sp?). I mean, they were just wonderful.

You vant to eat at Gordons for steak, you vant pizza from Moms's. I mean, they were taking care of this outsider like their child. I can never say enough good about my experiences in Chicago.

40 posted on 05/06/2005 6:16:27 PM PDT by AGreatPer
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