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Illegals flow into Arizona like water through a broken dam
Manchester Union Leader ^ | May 7, 2005 | Renee Downing

Posted on 05/07/2005 5:09:05 AM PDT by billorites

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1 posted on 05/07/2005 5:09:06 AM PDT by billorites
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To: billorites
Most people east of the Mississippi have no idea what is going west of it. Where are all of the major media outlets? East of the Mississippi. A truly representative main stream media.
2 posted on 05/07/2005 5:15:59 AM PDT by ProudVet77 (Warning: Frequent sarcastic posts)
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To: ProudVet77

Never has been.


3 posted on 05/07/2005 5:20:42 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: billorites; ProudVet77
The only thing I can conclude is that there is either some deal 'cut' with the Mexican government that nobody in Washington wants written down on paper or that Washington is acquiescing to some specific THREAT made by the Mexican government like, "We'll cut off all oil deliveries".

There is something going on here because the situtation is out of control and detrimental to the future health of this country.

~A Former Southern Californian

5 posted on 05/07/2005 5:23:36 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: billorites; All
Crosslinked:

For "Thunder on the Border," click this picture:


6 posted on 05/07/2005 5:28:30 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: DoctorMichael

Your conclusion has merit.
But I tend to think that the MSM drives most of what gets attention. M. Jackson gets more air time that the influx of aliens from Mexico. What does that say?
Most of what happens in DC is driven by the MSM, even in the Bush administration. He does what he can, and is reshaping the military and some other things very skillfully, but aliens on the Arizona border are not even on the radar scope. You can only fight so many battles at once.
BTW - I used to live in NM.


7 posted on 05/07/2005 5:33:35 AM PDT by ProudVet77 (Warning: Frequent sarcastic posts)
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To: Professional Engineer

ping


8 posted on 05/07/2005 5:35:23 AM PDT by Peanut Gallery
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To: ProudVet77
*** Most people east of the Mississippi have no idea what is going west of it. ***

Oh yes we do. Chicago has turned into Chicano.
In fact in Chicago, oops Chicano, ILLEGALS are now allowed to VOTE for the local school councils as there aren't enough CITIZENS in most neighborhoods. And Cook County is an illegal alien cesspool haven.

And in the 'collar counties' of DuPage, Will, Lake and Kane most of the violent CRIME is now committed by ILLEGALS. And these same ILEGALS have now managed to somehow scam the government to qualify for Section 8 Housing and as such are ruining the quality of life in towns and villages throughout the metro area.

And in IL in general the highways and streets after midnight aren't safe to drive do to all the drunken ILLEGALS killing innocent families on the roads. It's a safe bet that when you hear of a deadly accident at 2:00 am, an "undocumented Juan" is involved.

9 posted on 05/07/2005 5:42:52 AM PDT by Condor51 (Leftists are moral and intellectual parasites - Standing Wolf)
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To: ProudVet77

We know what's going on, and we are pretty upset. In Virginia they are trying to pass a law that would allow illegals IN-STATE TUITION! That's right, Mateo who lives up the road in Maryland and is here legally pays at a higher rate than Javier who is here illegally and breaking the laws of this country.

Fanfreakingtastic.


10 posted on 05/07/2005 5:43:58 AM PDT by Tulane
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To: DoctorMichael
There is something going on here because the situtation is out of control and detrimental to the future health of this country.

I have been pondering this situation myself. I think it has to do more with arrogance. Bush, Clinton, McCain, the WSJ, and the myraid other open borders/free trade crowd simnply just can't envision the destruction of our culture and the erosion of our society. They believe the power and strength of the U.S. is immutable. It's just not possible for them to believe that their actions and decisions will be ever be detrimental to the U.S.

The republicans see themselves as both benevolent to immigrants and providing a source of labor for industry (such as it is these days). The left, of course, is only advocating illegal immigration to create a class of people who feel beholden to them so they can return to power.

In any case, neither side can look into the future far enough to imagine a U.S. that has been ruined. Both have evolved into political parties that believe that they are not bound by the history of human societal evolution: They each believe their way will be the first in the histoyr of man to triumph.

Our "leaders", both political and corporate, today are so insulated from the world of the common man that they think their insulation extends to the rest of us. They have enough wealth and power to protect themselves from any societal destruction that they simply cannot imagine it happening at any level of U.S. society.

There is historical precedent to show that when the top of society becomes to heavy it becomes unbalanced and is that much easier to topple. The U.S. is becoming more and more top heavy every year. Soon, external and internal forces will cause it to topple. Unless something is done to change the direction our "leaders" are taking us.

11 posted on 05/07/2005 5:44:14 AM PDT by raybbr
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To: billorites

I think it was designed to be this way.

This supply of cheap laborers helps to keep the inflation down which we need desperately, because heavy gov spending encourages inflation. If these illegals were all professionals and trained people pouring into the US, then they would encourage inflation, but the fact that they are not makes the whole situation different. They actually help our economy (as long as they DO NOT CAUSE more gov spending).


12 posted on 05/07/2005 5:49:23 AM PDT by blueberry12
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To: raybbr

I agree...it is arrogance...and reliance on 1) cheap labor for campaign contributors and 2) the political consequences of being branded a racist or xenophobe for doing anything that remotely tightens the flow.

We just need to make our voices heard and change the calculus from making it political suicide to oppose illegal immigration to political suicide not to oppose it.


13 posted on 05/07/2005 5:51:07 AM PDT by Tulane
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To: billorites
"...If, by magic, the Minutemen’s dreams were granted overnight — if the border were sealed and the estimated 11 million people living in this country illegally were deported — America would most likely be unrecognizable, and not in a good way. Crops would rot in the fields, bathrooms would stay dirty, mothers of small children would be stuck at home. America is addicted to cheap labor, and withdrawal is beyond contemplation...."

As long as people believe this bullcrap, illegal immigration will continue and current illegals will not be deported. In reality, as the cheap labor market shrinks, pay will go up and the unemployed LEGAL workers will take the jobs and benefit from the increased pay. When we no longer have to pay for free medical care, education and incarceration of illegals, our expenses (and crime) will go down. What doesn't wash we can handle, and our borders will be protected.
14 posted on 05/07/2005 5:52:41 AM PDT by VOX9 (Stolen History & Stolen Heritage - Closed Records for Adult Adoptees!)
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To: Tulane; Condor51
Great. But go on the offensive. Tell DC that you've had enough. The people in MA think that Chicago is west of the Mississippi. Take the country back. We can't do it in places like NY or MA, which is why I send my money to candidates in other states which effect change. The only connection between Kerry/Kennedy and another ethnic group is via their servants.
I'm trying as hard as I can in MA to alert people to these hypocrites. The wind generator they are putting up on rt 93 is a great example. The beautiful people don't want it near their 2 month a year summer homes. (The good news this time is the unions are on the offensive!)
15 posted on 05/07/2005 5:53:32 AM PDT by ProudVet77 (Warning: Frequent sarcastic posts)
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To: ProudVet77

Agree...illegal immigration needs to be the type of issue that drives campaigns (like abortion, taxes, "values," etc.). Until the politicos know that their election swings in the balance, they will continue to do nothing.

No doubt it will be an uphill fight. The very fact that our opponents are ready, willing and able to drop the race card every step of the way will make it tough. We have to make people understand that this has nothing to do with RACE or ethnicity and everything to do with security, jobs and wages for the middle class. We'll take immigrants...let's just not take the ones who flaunt the laws of this country. We need to control our borders.


16 posted on 05/07/2005 5:58:48 AM PDT by Tulane
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To: raybbr
I usually hate to engage in any conspiracy theories here at FR so please forgive the 2 points in my previous post. However, there IS something going on here that I have yet to get a satisfactory answer to, either from our Gub-mint or the MSM.

"....Our "leaders", both political and corporate, today are so insulated from the world of the common man that they think their insulation extends to the rest of us......"

I agree! The explanation could be as simple as yours (ie. right in front of us).

17 posted on 05/07/2005 6:00:21 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
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To: raybbr
In any case, neither side can look into the future far enough to imagine a U.S. that has been ruined. Both have evolved into political parties that believe that they are not bound by the history of human societal evolution: They each believe their way will be the first in the histoyr of man to triumph

Huh I guess the same can be said of the Founding Fathers, then. Weren't they also arrogant ones who thought they could triumph?

Basically you are a fatalist, and so are most on the anti-immigrant, anti-business column.

18 posted on 05/07/2005 6:00:48 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: DoctorMichael

It is really quite simple: Business gets cheap labor, and Democrats get voters. Who would want to change that? Easterners will not wake up until the Arizona state flag is changed to depict a plastic sack hanging on a saguaro.


19 posted on 05/07/2005 6:03:51 AM PDT by gaspar
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To: Dane

To clairfy, I think most of us are not anti-immigrant, per se. It just drives us crazy that the government will do nothing to stop the illegal flow of people coming into this country...just legalize it or enforce the laws.

The is no question that the system now is broken and out of control. Yes, wages being driven through the floor is not necessarily a bad thing if the price of goods and services comes down as well. But the current system is completely out of control, and that is unacceptable to many.


20 posted on 05/07/2005 6:09:12 AM PDT by Tulane
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To: Tulane
The is no question that the system now is broken and out of control. Yes, wages being driven through the floor is not necessarily a bad thing if the price of goods and services comes down as well. But the current system is completely out of control, and that is unacceptable to many

It's unacceptable to me also, but what I support(a documented guest wroker program) gets shouted down with insults, because it doesn't include a new 2,000 mile Berlin like wall and such.

And most of the rhetoric I see from the other side almost borders on the doomsday cultish. America has always been a land of immigrants and has prospered for 229 years, despite the gloom and doom predictions.

21 posted on 05/07/2005 6:15:58 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane
America has always been a land of immigrants and has prospered for 229 years, despite the gloom and doom predictions.

Has America been a land of illegal immigrants for 229 years?

22 posted on 05/07/2005 6:29:39 AM PDT by Gigantor (USA: Greatest, wealthiest, most generous, benevolent, & powerful nation in the history of mankind.)
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To: All
"The United States is rich and needs workers who will take jobs Americans don’t want"

Not true!!!

Actually many unemployed Americans would welcome the chance to work for the wages some of these illegal immigrants are getting.

Plus, low-wage jobs can often be stepping stones to better jobs - both for Americans and illegal immigrants.

And illegal immigration effects all workers. Because there are so many more people chasing so few jobs, the massive influx of cheap labor depresses wages generally - even for jobs which could not be filled by illegal immigrants.

23 posted on 05/07/2005 6:34:52 AM PDT by dano1
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To: Dane
"I support a documented guest worker program."

I agree, assuming the program were well run.

24 posted on 05/07/2005 6:41:49 AM PDT by dano1
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To: Gigantor
Has America been a land of illegal immigrants for 229 years?

A semantic point. The point is that America has survived and prospered with every wave of immigrants, be they the Irish, Itlaians, Jews, etc.etc.

And there have always been the doomsdayers, look up the Know Nothings.

The only ones I would worry about are the ones the Europeans have to prop their bloated welfare states with, the islamofascists.

25 posted on 05/07/2005 6:45:17 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: raybbr

I have been pondering this situation myself. I think it has to do more with arrogance.


I agree with the arrogance part - we will, because we can - sort of thing. HOWEVER, the "Elite" who make the decisions for the rest of us do not have to come in contact with what we do on a daily basis.

THEY are not the ones who have to deal with the illegals in their daily lives. THEY are not in positions to have illegals commit crimes against them. THEY don't have to worry about hospitals being closed and not being able to get medical care. THEY don't send their children to government schools where you have to fight to get classes taught in English. President Bush will not have to see HIS land in Texas destroyed by illegals. As for the American taxpayer? Why, we are just supposed keep paying and shut up.


26 posted on 05/07/2005 6:53:28 AM PDT by ImpotentRage
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To: Dane

You have to admit the rhetoric on both sides is over the top. It's the doomsdayers vs. race baiters.

The US should be able to decide who comes in and who doesn't. The current system pits an impotent government vs the good, the bad and the ugly. The problem being we have no way of documenting anyone, good, bad or ugly. It drives peole like me nuts to see illegal aliens, convicted of violent crimes NOT DEPORTED, only to commit more crime down the road. Granted, if the current system is not "fixed" I doubt it will mean the end of our country as we know it...but that is hardly a reason not to fix it.


27 posted on 05/07/2005 7:57:57 AM PDT by Tulane
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To: ImpotentRage
I agree with the arrogance part - we will, because we can - sort of thing. HOWEVER, the "Elite" who make the decisions for the rest of us do not have to come in contact with what we do on a daily basis.

I agree: "Our "leaders", both political and corporate, today are so insulated from the world of the common man that they think their insulation extends to the rest of us. They have enough wealth and power to protect themselves from any societal destruction that they simply cannot imagine it happening at any level of U.S. society."

28 posted on 05/07/2005 7:58:08 AM PDT by raybbr
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To: Tulane
It drives peole like me nuts to see illegal aliens, convicted of violent crimes NOT DEPORTED, only to commit more crime down the road.

That also makes me mad to see, and that is why the "judge wars" are so important.

And you know what else I can't stand is when I see people on FR say that these liberal judges are Bush's fault.

29 posted on 05/07/2005 8:08:30 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: billorites
Crops would rot in the fields, bathrooms would stay dirty, mothers of small children would be stuck at home.

Oh dear. Another gloom and doomer.

So we enforce the rule of law and catastrophe is surely right around the corner?

I think I'm gonna hurl.

30 posted on 05/07/2005 8:28:02 AM PDT by primeval patriot (Let me off on Archer, and I'll walk down to Greenwood)
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To: raybbr
I agree: "Our "leaders", both political and corporate, today are so insulated from the world of the common man that they think their insulation extends to the rest of us. They have enough wealth and power to protect themselves from any societal destruction that they simply cannot imagine it happening at any level of U.S. society."

huey long(populist/marxist) is applauding.

31 posted on 05/07/2005 8:30:11 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane
America has survived and prospered with every wave of immigrants

No previous wave has been rewarded with taxpayer money for being poor.

32 posted on 05/07/2005 8:30:48 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: VOX9
In reality, as the cheap labor market shrinks, pay will go up and the unemployed LEGAL workers will take the jobs and benefit from the increased pay.

But some upper-class soccer moms may have to clean their own toilets, and their husbands mow their own lawns. (Or vice versa ... I'm nothing if not openminded.)

33 posted on 05/07/2005 8:34:04 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Know your rights
No previous wave has been rewarded with taxpayer money for being poor

Thanks to LBJ.

34 posted on 05/07/2005 8:40:10 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Condor51

Thanks for posting to all of you. I never realized how bad the situation is. I blame the MSM for not coveering this...even Foxx or CNN doesn't cover these stories much.
It all seems so overhwelming. Where do we start?


35 posted on 05/07/2005 8:47:41 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (GET REAL: Prosecute employers who hire illegals=end of problem.)
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To: Dane
LBJ helped create the problem ... and until it's fixed, unskilled immigration will be a drain on our society.
36 posted on 05/07/2005 8:48:25 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
Where do we start?

The Democrats won't fix it ... but neither will the Republicans unless we hold their feet to the fire.

37 posted on 05/07/2005 8:49:28 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
I blame the MSM for not coveering this...even Foxx or CNN doesn't cover these stories much

Oh come on. O'Reilly has been covering this every night and his ratings are swishing down like a toilet flush, and Hannity has also.

38 posted on 05/07/2005 8:52:25 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: IslamoCommieObserver
Per your reply #39, this is getting good.

It's always nice to see a meltdown of those who can't fathom common sense, be it harry reid or yourself and your huey long comrades on FR.

40 posted on 05/07/2005 9:56:22 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: IslamoCommieObserver
I see you are the Free Republic, anti-American token clown.

Sincerely,
ICO

So be it, the DUmmies say the same thing about GW Bush.

42 posted on 05/07/2005 10:05:08 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: IslamoCommieObserver
Do you hang out at DU?

Do you mean post?

No I don't, but sometimes one has to see what drives the liberal mainstream media and the lunacy they promote.

As for you, IMO, you probably are a gold star member over there.

44 posted on 05/07/2005 10:10:28 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: IslamoCommieObserver
Thanks for being you.

Sincerely,
ICO

And thank you for being the DUmmie you are.

46 posted on 05/07/2005 10:12:55 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: IslamoCommieObserver
If you and your anti-American ideas have a following at Free Republic, then this forum has lower standards than I thought. Quit hanging out at DU, it's ruining your fragile mind.

Sincerely,
ICO

Dude maybe, you should look over the replies before you shoot off your DUmmie mouth.

See reply #46.

48 posted on 05/07/2005 10:15:44 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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Comment #49 Removed by Moderator

Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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