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Illegals flow into Arizona like water through a broken dam
Manchester Union Leader ^ | May 7, 2005 | Renee Downing

Posted on 05/07/2005 5:09:05 AM PDT by billorites

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To: Dane

"You mean the vigor some on FR go after those "evil" businesses."

Sure, that would be sufficiently vigorous.


151 posted on 05/07/2005 7:22:34 PM PDT by mthom
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To: Dane

Thanks for the bump.


152 posted on 05/07/2005 7:22:40 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: the anti-liberal

Don't ask me why, but the open borders advocates are untouchable on FR. After inciting the most vicious race-baiting flame wars, at most they get a one week time out. Meanwhile, the patriots they goad into flame wars get the perma-ban. That's how, over time, FR tilts the "playing field" toward the open borders lobby.


153 posted on 05/07/2005 7:24:41 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: melancholy
We should just adopt and enforce Mexican immigration laws.

For example, if you are an illegal alien in Mexico you are deported if you are lucky. If you return after being deported, you get a ten year prison term.

154 posted on 05/07/2005 7:26:25 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Dane
The point is that America has survived and prospered with every wave of immigrants, be they the Irish, Itlaians, Jews, etc.etc.

That's just the point - they were waves - as in a one time shot. After a few generations, with no ongoing support, they assimilated and became Americans. Most of them wanted to anyways.

The current situation is not a wave but an ongoing and increasing flood. Instead of ghettos forming for a generation or two and then dissolving, they now get constant reinforcements and harden into Third World barrios. The fact that our government panders to them with native language ballots, etc. only insures that they not only take longer to assimilate, in many cases they never do.

The other difference is that a lot of these illegals don't want to become Americans, just live like them. Check out all the Mexican flags/decals on their uninsured heaps.

155 posted on 05/07/2005 7:26:33 PM PDT by Oatka
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To: Dane

No, I don't just "say" I do not hang out these threads, the fact is I don't, and you know it.

Nice try Dane. You can't bait me.

Were you not so woefully ignorant about the illegal invasion,
you wouldn't be posting such pathetic tripe.


156 posted on 05/07/2005 7:32:05 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: Dane; Travis McGee; onyx; mthom

>>Dane, are you there?

Apparently you are, any country other than the USA? Google won't help because such country doesn't exist.<<

Dane,

You don't have an answer to a very simple question, which puts your arguments in a very bad light.

The result is my new and improved tagline.


157 posted on 05/07/2005 7:32:20 PM PDT by melancholy (Quiz: Name one country, other than the USA, that doesn't control its borders?)
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To: Dane
No previous wave has been rewarded with taxpayer money for being poor Thanks to LBJ.

Viva la 'great society'..... That's where all of this madness started IMHO.........

158 posted on 05/07/2005 7:37:06 PM PDT by eeriegeno
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To: melancholy
Just keep this definition in mind:

Quisling: a synonym for "traitor", someone who collaborates with the invaders of his country.

159 posted on 05/07/2005 7:37:37 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: melancholy
Dane,

You don't have an answer to a very simple question, which puts your arguments in a very bad light.

The result is my new and improved tagline

To qualify, how do you mean control it's borders, do you mean like North Korea, where the people eat tree bark?


160 posted on 05/07/2005 7:39:50 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: eeriegeno
Viva la 'great society'..... That's where all of this madness started IMHO(with LBJ)........

Didn't you know this is all Bush's fault according to some on FR.

161 posted on 05/07/2005 7:42:01 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Travis McGee

I agree.

There would be dire consequences for illegal "entry" in some countries. In most countries, it's immediate deportation with no courts, back on the carrier on which you just arrived.


162 posted on 05/07/2005 7:42:25 PM PDT by melancholy (Quiz: Name one country, other than the USA, that doesn't control its borders?)
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To: Dane

North Koreas a bad example. The south koreans and US built that thing too. If youre going to use the wall thing to try to call people commies stick to Berlin.


163 posted on 05/07/2005 7:46:47 PM PDT by mthom
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To: Dane

>>To qualify, how do you mean control it's borders, do you mean like North Korea, where the people eat tree bark?<<

I thought so; you have nothing to say. You couldn't find a single, little, teenie weenie country that doesn't control its border.

I'm not gonna be baited by "eating tree bark", I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree! LOL


164 posted on 05/07/2005 7:50:15 PM PDT by melancholy (Quiz: Name one country, other than the USA, that doesn't control its borders?)
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To: billorites
This:
The United States, on the other hand, is rich and needs workers who will take jobs Americans don’t want, for lower wages than Americans will accept. (Try this thought experiment: Imagine suggesting that your teen-ager take a summer job picking melons for 12 hours a day in California.) If, by magic, the Minutemen’s dreams were granted overnight — if the border were sealed and the estimated 11 million people living in this country illegally were deported — America would most likely be unrecognizable, and not in a good way. Crops would rot in the fields, bathrooms would stay dirty, mothers of small children would be stuck at home. America is addicted to cheap labor, and withdrawal is beyond contemplation.
... is the most rank, murky and still fuming Bovine Excrement.

A total lie. A complete delusion.

The thought experiment suggests that there aren't American teenagers already working 12 hour days in hard jobs -- there are, there always have been, and will be. The awful propagandist's trick employed in such a bald lie of a suggestion is that many readers wouldn't themselves have their own children in such postion and are loathe to imagine it -- yet it is the case that American teenagers are as hard-working as any illegal!

Nor would fruit or produce rot in the field -- I remember nearly fifty years ago hearing the same argument for providing cheap farm labor. Back when we had far less illegals. In the ebb and flow since not one crop has so rotted. Farmers are quick to adjust and new technology is rarely adopted when labor is so cheap. We would likely improve our yields if we removed the incentive to not improve manual harvest techniques.

There are NO jobs Americans will not do.

165 posted on 05/07/2005 7:50:48 PM PDT by bvw
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To: mthom
North Koreas a bad example. The south koreans and US built that thing too. If youre going to use the wall thing to try to call people commies stick to Berlin

No problem, just for the irony. Arnold was born in Graz, Austria.

If he had been born 30 or 40 miles east in Hungary, he would have come upon this.

The iron curtain.

166 posted on 05/07/2005 7:54:07 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: mthom
Why debate false flag freepers, who argue that there is no difference between the Berlin Wall (to keep slaves in a communist prison nation) and a proper border fence, to enforce current American laws and defend American sovereignty from invasion?

U.S. Constitution Article 1 Section 8 Clause 15:

"The Congress shall have Power to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections

and repel Invasions;"


U.S. Constitution Article 4 Section 4:

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,

and shall protect each of them against Invasion;"


167 posted on 05/07/2005 7:54:33 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Dane

I dont see the irony but ok. Has he been advocating building a wall on the border?


168 posted on 05/07/2005 7:58:32 PM PDT by mthom
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To: Dane

>>Arnold was born in Graz, Austria.<<

I like apples, not oranges.


169 posted on 05/07/2005 7:59:29 PM PDT by melancholy (Quiz: Name one country, other than the USA, that doesn't control its borders?)
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To: melancholy
It's so ironic, that the Quislings and FOQNAs and FFFs compare America to Communist East Germany.

Yet their beloved Mexico throws second time illegal aliens into prison for ten years, and the OBLs don't say one word.

The bottom line is that the FFFs and FOQNA and Quislings are liars, who are out to destroy American sovereignty. They just use weasel words instead of admitting their ultimate agenda.

170 posted on 05/07/2005 8:00:55 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: the anti-liberal


You may well be a newbie, but you're one smart newbie.

Welcome to FR and don't take the bait or feed the trolls.

:)


171 posted on 05/07/2005 8:01:55 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: melancholy; Travis McGee; freedom2003; mthom

I have an early flight to catch, so I'm going to bed.

I'll be away one week, so hold the fort and watch my back...lol.


172 posted on 05/07/2005 8:03:46 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: Travis McGee
The bottom line is that the FFFs and FOQNA and Quislings are liars, who are out to destroy American sovereignty. They just use weasel words instead of admitting their ultimate agenda.

Muwahhhhhh, travis, that's right we want to see the death of America.(rolling eyes)

The above is sarcasm, before someone goes spam freepmailing

173 posted on 05/07/2005 8:08:33 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane

Thanks for the bump. I always appreciate it when you repeat my posts, for added emphasis.


174 posted on 05/07/2005 8:12:01 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: onyx

Enjoy yourseelf!


175 posted on 05/07/2005 8:12:38 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
Thanks for the bump. I always appreciate it when you repeat my posts, for added emphasis

and IMO, humor.

176 posted on 05/07/2005 8:13:44 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Travis McGee

I thought that FReepers always answer polite questions from fellow FReepers and acknowledge their mistakes.

Live and learn.


177 posted on 05/07/2005 8:14:34 PM PDT by melancholy (Quiz: Name one country, other than the USA, that doesn't control its borders?)
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To: onyx

Have a good and safe trip.


178 posted on 05/07/2005 8:15:53 PM PDT by melancholy (Quiz: Name one country, other than the USA, that doesn't control its borders?)
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To: gaspar
It is really quite simple: Business gets cheap labor, and Democrats get voters.

I would change that to:

Business gets cheap labor, business donates big money to both political parties, and both the Dems and the Repubs want the votes so they can retain their positions of power.

Who would want to change that?

Apparently not that many voters 'cause the bums are still in D.C.

179 posted on 05/07/2005 8:23:04 PM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: melancholy; Travis McGee; yall

OK, I;ll have a splendid trip.
Y;all just watch my back and hold the fort,

Need to go lie down now: doctor;s orders,
ooh-la-la. These orders are he kind I "like".

I am his favorite, faviorite patient. Guaranteed..

Nite everyobdy.


*smooth*


180 posted on 05/07/2005 8:45:45 PM PDT by onyx (Pope John Paul II - May 18, 1920 - April 2, 2005 = SANTO SUBITO!)
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To: bvw
This... [see below] ... is the most rank, murky and still fuming Bovine Excrement.
A total lie. A complete delusion.

It truly was. I'm printing out and saving that article in case I ever run out of toilet paper. I'm going to quote it below, so hide your eyes:

Barf Alert

"The United States, on the other hand, is rich and needs workers who will take jobs Americans don't want, for lower wages than Americans will accept. (Try this thought experiment: Imagine suggesting that your teen-ager take a summer job picking melons for 12 hours a day in California.) If, by magic, the Minutemen's dreams were granted overnight — if the border were sealed and the estimated 11 million people living in this country illegally were deported — America would most likely be unrecognizable, and not in a good way."

Barf Alert

"Crops would rot in the fields, bathrooms would stay dirty, mothers of small children would be stuck at home. America is addicted to cheap labor, and withdrawal is beyond contemplation."

</Barf Alert>

181 posted on 05/07/2005 9:02:23 PM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: Condor51

Post #9 - Sounds just like the Los Angeles, Mexifornia area.


182 posted on 05/07/2005 9:23:30 PM PDT by janetgreen (Minutman Project - American patriotism!)
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To: Dane
Not really, especillay when there are infinite posts about jailing and blowing up people who just want to do a job of dishwashing or picking vegetables on FR.

"Infinite posts"? What an outlandish exaggeration.

183 posted on 05/07/2005 9:26:54 PM PDT by judgeandjury
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To: Dane
JMO, if the minutemen had their perfect world, they would be shooting at people whose crime is to take a job as a dishwasher.

Got anything to back up your statement? Or is this just more BS from Dane the Agitator?

184 posted on 05/07/2005 9:30:34 PM PDT by judgeandjury
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To: IslamoCommieObserver
Good post, ICO.

It's a shame people get banned here for telling the truth and pi**ing off the OB crowd.

185 posted on 05/07/2005 9:35:21 PM PDT by janetgreen (Minutman Project - American patriotism!)
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To: Dane
race baiting ways of tom tancredo rhetoric

Shouldn't you, dane, stop playing the tom tancredo card? It's getting old.

186 posted on 05/07/2005 9:37:28 PM PDT by janetgreen (Minutman Project - American patriotism!)
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To: janetgreen
Shouldn't you, dane, stop playing the tom tancredo card? It's getting old

What, is he becoming an embarassment to you now, especially with his backstabbing towards Tom Delay.

187 posted on 05/08/2005 5:20:31 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: ProudVet77

Bush had done nothing, and a handful of Minutemen have now proven how easy it is to protect the borders.


188 posted on 05/08/2005 5:25:56 AM PDT by international american (Tagline now flameproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: Condor51

You just described California, only it is much more pervasive here.


189 posted on 05/08/2005 5:27:24 AM PDT by international american (Tagline now flameproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: billorites

http://newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/5/5/121134.shtml


Mexicans Still Think They Own the U.S.

Jim Meyers, NewsMax.com

Friday, May 6, 2005

Many Hispanic activists, Mexican citizens and perhaps even members of the Mexican government believe the American Southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico.

They refuse to accept the legality of the U.S. annexation of Texas in 1845, the 1848 Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo following the Mexican-American War, which gave large parts of Mexico to the U.S., or the 1852 Gadsden Purchase of Mexican territory now in Arizona and New Mexico. A Zogby poll found that 58 percent of Mexicans agreed with the statement, "The territory of the Southwest U.S. rightfully belongs to Mexico," and therefore they believe they don't need permission to enter.
In 1997, then-Mexican President Ernesto Zedillo told the National Council of La Raza in Chicago: "I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders."

And current President Vincente Fox "repeated this line during a 2001 visit to the U.S., when he called for open borders and endorsed Mexico's new dual citizenship law," according to Investor's Business Daily.

Activist Charles Trujillo, a professor at the University of New Mexico, predicts that a new Hispanic nation will be formed within this century, encompassing much of the American Southwest and part of northern Mexico.

He says U.S. states have the right to secede under our original Articles of Confederation, and this will occur in the future when several Southwest states have Hispanic majorities.

The Hispanic student activist group MECHa (a Spanish acronym for Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan) claims that Texas, California, Arizona, New Mexico and southern Colorado were stolen by the U.S. and should be returned to the people of Mexico, under the name "Nation of Aztlan."

Aztlan is the mythical original home of the Aztec people.

Some Californians seem to think that Los Angeles has already been "returned" to the Mexican people. As NewsMax.com reported in April, billboards touting a Spanish-language TV news program showed two newscasters in front of the L.A. skyline, with "Los Angeles, Mexico" printed above.

The billboards angered groups fighting illegal immigration. Stuart Fischoff, who teaches media psychology at California State-Los Angeles, told the L.A. Times: "The joke here is, ‘We're taking back California.' Underneath the joke is part of the truth."


190 posted on 05/08/2005 5:29:21 AM PDT by JarheadFromFlorida
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To: IslamoCommieObserver

And dumber than a brick wall. Don't bother posting to Lil D


191 posted on 05/08/2005 5:33:09 AM PDT by international american (Tagline now flameproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: Dane

[[America has always been a land of immigrants and has prospered for 229 years, despite the gloom and doom predictions.]]

Allow me to correct you. We are NOT a nation of immigrants. We are a nation of descendants of immigrants. 90% of Americans were born here but their families may have immigrated here generations ago.


192 posted on 05/08/2005 5:34:03 AM PDT by JarheadFromFlorida
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To: mercy
mercy writes:
This is just the way it is. As I've said many times before ... work at stoping all wellfare and build more prisons as we force these hispanics to become adapted honest Americans because keeping them out is not really an option.
Yes it's a crappy situation but reversing it is absolutely impossible.

Remember the old song by Peggy Lee:
Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
Well, if that's all there is,
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all...

I've come to the conclusion that there is almost nothing left that _can_ be done to save ourselves from the Immigration Bomb. Time is running out. We are fast approaching the point of "is that all there is?", and, as it will follow, the reality of "if that's all"...

Any talk of actually sending back the millions already here is met with guffaws. Who's going to send back 10 million? Yet each new arrival is (to paraphrase James Q. Wilson) "one more broken window" in our notion of borders, citizenship, and European-American culture. And each and every new arrival sends a signal to the millions more waiting to come in, that they can get away with it, so, go for it!

For the record, I'm for sending every illegal that can be identified and proven as such _back_. Every one. If that means I have to pay more taxes to get rid of them, so be it. I (and you) are certainly going to be paying far more to support them.

Any talk of building a security barrier to protect our Southern Border from the illegal onslaught is, too, met with guffaws. No one here doubts the effectiveness of the Israeli security fence as to protecting their own borders, in their case, against the infiltration of Palestinian terrorists. If a security fence around [nearly] the entire country of Israel can protect them against intrusion, why wouldn't a security barrier on our southern border protect _us_?

For the record, I advocated building a wall from the Pacific to the Gulf of Mexico back in the early 90's, before Pat Buchanan was even considering such notions. I've been to the Berlin wall (when it was in existence), seen it from _both_ sides, passed through Checkpoint Charlie. For what purpose it was intended, the Berlin Wall worked.

The lie that the border cannot be sealed and properly policed was laid to rest by the few hundred "Minutemen" patrolling in Arizona - for even in their small numbers, they seemed to produce a surprising effect!

But real deportations en masse aren't going to happen (I know that). And a security barrier isn't going to be built (I know that too). So what's left to be done?

Well, when you stop to think about it.... nothing. Because, nothing else is going to work at keeping the hordes of illegals out. We won't stop them from coming in, and once here, we won't send them back.

Thus, "is that all there is?"

So, better get used to it. Since no one will ever be willing to take the hard steps to STOP the illegal invasion, might as well fill your glass with whatever you like, hoist it high, and drink a hearty toast our fading civilization.

Because as the song says, "that's all"....

Cheers!
- John

193 posted on 05/08/2005 5:45:04 AM PDT by Fishrrman
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To: Fishrrman

"For the record, I'm for sending every illegal that can be identified and proven as such _back_. Every one. If that means I have to pay more taxes to get rid of them, so be it. I (and you) are certainly going to be paying far more to support them."

There are numerous simple and inexpensive ways to catch the illegals. Most have paid 250-300 dollars for a phony social security card and a drivers license.


194 posted on 05/08/2005 5:50:17 AM PDT by international american (Tagline now flameproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: Fishrrman
Who's going to send back 10 million? Yet each new arrival is (to paraphrase James Q. Wilson) "one more broken window" in our notion of borders, citizenship, and European-American culture

You mean the modern western European culture of abortion, euthanasia, socialism, homosexual marriage, etc.etc..

For what purpose it was intended, the Berlin Wall worked.

Yeah ask the hundreds of familes that had their loved ones wounded or killed trying to escape communism.

The Berlin wall worked really well for them.

195 posted on 05/08/2005 5:57:46 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Fishrrman

We are close to that point I agree, but I sense a profound backlash by Americans, as the minutemen have proven that it is easy to control the borders.


196 posted on 05/08/2005 6:06:48 AM PDT by international american (Tagline now flameproof....purchased from "Conspiracy Guy Custom Taglines"LLC)
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To: JarheadFromFlorida
Allow me to correct you. We are NOT a nation of immigrants. We are a nation of descendants of immigrants. 90% of Americans were born here but their families may have immigrated here generations ago.

Uh this nation was built by immigrants.

Oh yeah and if an immigrant, Andy Grove, founder of Intel, hadn't come to this country, we probably wouldn't be having this online conversation right now.

197 posted on 05/08/2005 6:09:06 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: janetgreen
It's all she's got.

Take it away, she's got nothing.

198 posted on 05/08/2005 7:26:27 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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There are sixty million Mexicans in Mexico. That means probably 20 million workers. Half of them are already here. I don't know but given the situation as we have it now ... the best way to deal with the problem, for now, is to absorb them.

So what if some of the radical hispanics think they can form a new world called Astlan. The South thought they could form a new nation once as well. If a civil war is what it takes to stamp out this crazy idea so be it. They won't win. It won't come to that. In a way we are already having a war with the gangs of the SW and they are losing. We just need to build more prisons. Work camps would be better.

Building a wall would cost dozens of billions and stopping them from tunneling under ... more billions. Industrializing Mexico would be cheaper. Might even make a profit. If China can industrialize ... Mexico can.

Twenty years from now we will wish we could get the Mexicans to come back as they will all be working in Mexico.

There aren't enough of them to overrun us. Yes they are causing problems, as they do our dirty work. Cutting off all wellfare and jailing the criminals would fix that problem.

The final necessity is to create an ironclad immigrant worker program and to shut down any American businesses that hire illegals that do not have a card.

American parents need to drastically raise their expectations for their kids. Nothing less than a B should be accepted. If your kid can't get Bs they need to go into a trade school. So many American parents think the school is going to raise their kids. This is a one way ticket to the penal system. There will be no economic freedom for those without higher education, strong work ethics or a skill in demand. There will be no factory jobs and the immigrants will have most of the unskilled AND many of the skilled trades jobs.


199 posted on 05/08/2005 11:50:02 AM PDT by mercy (never again a patsy for Bill Gates - spyware and viri free for over a year now)
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To: Dane
real immigration reform

If you can find a moment between your flame bytes, perhaps you could elucidate your immigration reform plan, that constitutes "real" reform. Just a thought.

200 posted on 05/08/2005 5:04:34 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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