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Illegals flow into Arizona like water through a broken dam
Manchester Union Leader ^ | May 7, 2005 | Renee Downing

Posted on 05/07/2005 5:09:05 AM PDT by billorites

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To: Torie
If you can find a moment between your flame bytes, perhaps you could elucidate your immigration reform plan, that constitutes "real" reform. Just a thought

Sure, have stated it a many of times. A documented guest worker program where the non-citizen is not eligible for either welfare or voting benefits.

If they wish to become a citizen they go to the back of the line.

201 posted on 05/08/2005 5:07:51 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane

Thanks. In the Dane plan, can anybody get documented who is not a felon, or just some, can those here get documented, or do they have to decamp, and when documented, can they stay until they die, or is the term somewhat less than a life estate?


202 posted on 05/08/2005 5:16:17 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie
Thanks. In the Dane plan, can anybody get documented who is not a felon, or just some, can those here get documented, or do they have to decamp, and when documented, can they stay until they die, or is the term somewhat less than a life estate?

Basically it is an outline, and to answer the last question first, no they can't stay until they die. Also any person here who does not have the documentation is immediately deported, yes people already here can apply, but that is carrot and stick approach to weed out the generally honest people who want to do honest work, from thos who are here for more nefarious reasons.

203 posted on 05/08/2005 5:24:58 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane

Splendid. We are making progress. Now how long can they stay, and when must they leave? As you know, where the rubber meets the road in this debate, is allowing existing illegals to get documented, and then stay forever, with the natural momentum of course in time leading to citizenship. Also, I am still not sure what the filter is on who gets documented in the Dane plan. Is it anybody who applies who has a job offer and is not a felon (here or not already), or is it more selective?


204 posted on 05/08/2005 5:31:27 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie
Generally say for 3 years. Like I said they would not be entitiled to welfare or voting rights and if they want to apply for permanent residency/citizenship they must go back to their home country and get in the back of the line.

JMO, it brings sanity to a system that has been out of whack since LBJ dismantled the bracero program 40 years ago.

205 posted on 05/08/2005 5:36:46 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Torie

Also those already here would have to a pay a fine.


206 posted on 05/08/2005 5:39:42 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane

Well I think we generally agree on much in theory on a program. Where we disagree, is what I think existing illegals should decamp to cleanse their illegality to get papers. It is also essential that the jobs they take are offered at the prevailing wage. Otherwise, the wage pressure on unskilled jobs will continue apace, leading to more social problems, and more agitation of income supplements. What do you think about the Torie "friendly" amendments to the Dane proposal?


207 posted on 05/08/2005 5:42:02 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie
There already here, weed out those who really want to do honest work and make themn pay a fine, as for your prevailing wage thingy. I'm not a big fan of any govt. interference in the market, be they price controls, floors, ceilings, etc.etc.

Honest and good business is what makes American prosper, not intrusive govt. economic regulations.

208 posted on 05/08/2005 5:50:35 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane

Well that is the Achilles heel in the Dane plan. Some jobs will be forced down to the minimum wage, and of course the kids need to be educated, the family medicated, and so it goes. I won't be hurt. I'm a lawyer. We protect ourselves. But the Walmart shoppers demographic will be.


209 posted on 05/08/2005 5:56:10 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie
I won't be hurt. I'm a lawyer. We protect ourselves

Not if real tort reform ever gets through, which I'm all for.

Also a growing economy rises all boats, intrusive govt. regulations sinks them.

210 posted on 05/08/2005 6:00:01 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Oatka
The current situation is not a wave but an ongoing and increasing flood. Instead of ghettos forming for a generation or two and then dissolving, they now get constant reinforcements and harden into Third World barrios.

And unlike the previous waves of Irish and Italians who stayed in inner city ghettos, these Mexican immigrants are spreading their ghettos and ghetto crime to every corner of the country, even rural small towns way out in the country.

211 posted on 05/08/2005 6:18:43 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (Life is like a cow pasture, it's hard to get through without stepping in some mess.)
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To: Inyo-Mono

Do you live in Inyo or Mono Counties? I ask because my brother lives almost on the county line.


212 posted on 05/08/2005 6:20:22 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie

Does he live in Chalfant Valley or Swall Meadows? I live just south of the line in Inyo County.


213 posted on 05/08/2005 6:23:51 PM PDT by Inyo-Mono (Life is like a cow pasture, it's hard to get through without stepping in some mess.)
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To: Inyo-Mono
Rovana.
214 posted on 05/08/2005 6:40:11 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: billorites

I suggest we start buying one way tickets for Washington DC and handing them out as the people cross the border.


215 posted on 05/08/2005 6:59:07 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: Dane
Now, THAT'S a good post! I'd be surprised if Dane has anything substantive to say in reply

Oh you mean like ICO's reply #62

No, not like that. So far, you're bearing out my prediciton.

216 posted on 05/09/2005 8:12:35 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Dane
this nation was built by immigrants.

LEGAL immigrants who did NOT suck at the welfare state teat.

217 posted on 05/09/2005 8:37:38 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Dane
The iron curtain.

Can you not see the difference between a wall that keeps citizens in and a wall that keeps noncitizens out?

218 posted on 05/09/2005 8:41:07 AM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Know your rights
LEGAL immigrants who did NOT suck at the welfare state teat.

And you can thank LBJ for the current situation.

219 posted on 05/09/2005 8:42:59 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Know your rights
Can you not see the difference between a wall that keeps citizens in and a wall that keeps noncitizens out?

Yeah walls with mines and sharpshooters are great aren't they. Ask those who suffered under the iron curtain and the North Koreans who think that maple bark is a treat for dinner.

220 posted on 05/09/2005 8:46:19 AM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: VOX9
As long as people believe this bullcrap, illegal immigration will continue and current illegals will not be deported. In reality, as the cheap labor market shrinks, pay will go up and the unemployed LEGAL workers will take the jobs and benefit from the increased pay.

Or the farmers will go out of business -- which is the real answer. Many can't afford to pay "unemployed LEGAL workers." An ugly fact of life.

The main cause of illegal immigration is not that these people cross the border, but that there are Americans who hire them.

221 posted on 05/09/2005 8:53:40 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: blueberry12

Approximately 28% of all all prisoners in our prison systems are illegals.

To state that having illegals here actually helps our economy is concret evidence that you have what is commonly called "Head up Arse" syndrome.


222 posted on 05/09/2005 9:06:47 AM PDT by ohioman
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To: Dane
LEGAL immigrants who did NOT suck at the welfare state teat.

And you can thank LBJ for the current situation.

You keep digging up that bit of history. I'm more concerned with who I'll thank for ending the current situation, and what we'll do about immigration in the meantime.

223 posted on 05/10/2005 1:58:21 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: Dane
Can you not see the difference between a wall that keeps citizens in and a wall that keeps noncitizens out?

Yeah walls with mines and sharpshooters are great aren't they.

Is that a "no, I can't see the difference"?

224 posted on 05/10/2005 1:59:27 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: r9etb
Or the farmers will go out of business -- which is the real answer. Many can't afford to pay "unemployed LEGAL workers."

So let them find another line of work. Bad enough they get billions in taxpayer subsidies, without steering our country toward Third-World-toilethood so they can stay in business.

225 posted on 05/10/2005 2:35:13 PM PDT by Know your rights (The modern enlightened liberal doesn't care what you believe as long as you don't really believe it.)
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To: GABaptist
Get ready to rumble!

It ain't just Mexicans now!

Al Qaeda Tours and Travel

Details here ~~~

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

226 posted on 05/10/2005 2:37:43 PM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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