Also, since the Boston area has a rash of unsolved rapes widely ignored
-check the FR threads- don't you think the rapists
and illegal aliens which includes terrorists
are a much bigger threat than 'snow castle builders'?
Posted on 05/08/2005 7:04:09 AM PDT by Nachum
FRAMINGHAM -- Two Framingham High seniors arrested in January after they were ordered off high school property because they were building a snow fort were found guilty yesterday of trespassing.
Jenna Schroeder and Jason Osorio, both 18, now face a maximum of 30 days in jail after the two-day trial in Framingham District Court. The jury of three men and three women deliberated for about three hours before they reached a verdict.
Judge Douglas Stoddart will sentence the pair May 16. Although punishable by a maximum of 30 days in jail, according to Massachusetts General Law, an offender can also face a fine less than $100 and probation.
Neither Schroeder nor Osorio commented after the trial. Schroeder's attorney, Michael J. Heineman, also declined to comment. Osorio's lawyer, Melvin Norris, was not present during the verdict due to a hearing in federal court in Boston.
The pair were arrested Jan. 25 when police ordered them to leave the high school grounds while they were building a fort in a large pile of snow. The school was closed for the day due to the weather.
The teens claimed they were about to leave when they were arrested. Police said the pair were uncooperative and refused to leave after repeated requests.
During closing statements, both defense attorneys tried to convince the jury the arrests stemmed from the arresting officer, James Smith, getting angry at the "smart ass" teens.
Prosecutor Deb Bercovitch argued it was a clear-cut case -- two people told to leave the property who did not, so they were arrested.
Heineman questioned Smith's truthfulness in his closing statement.
"His credibility is something I'm going to ask you to look closely at," said Heineman. "Officer Smith tells a story that doesn't add up -- that doesn't make sense."
Heineman said Smith originally put a third teen, Edwin Snead, in his cruiser, but never arrested him. The lawyer said Smith grew angry at Schroeder when she asked first why Snead was put in the cruiser, and then asked for his name and badge number.
"Officer Smith never gave a reason -- why didn't he give a reason?" said Heineman. "Because being a smart ass is not a good answer. The evidence shows that Officer Smith was trying to bully and scare these kids."
He said Schroeder, Osorio and Snead were just having a fun day, building a snow fort in the large pile of snow. He said Schroeder's questioning of Smith led to the arrest.
"I would suggest the only crime Jenna broke that day, if it's a crime, is she stood up and asked a police officer his name and badge number," said Heineman. "She didn't cower. She didn't flee. She stood up for a friend. I would suggest the world needs more people like Jenna."
Norris, representing Osorio, said Smith had no right to arrest his client.
"Jason is a student at Framingham High School. Jason was at the Framingham High School. Jason had every right to be at the Framingham High School," Norris said. "The teenagers in this case are telling the truth about the facts of the case.
"Why would an officer exaggerate what happened," Norris continued. "Like all of us, he has a job. Everyone wants to be promoted, wants to get ahead."
"Officer Smith was there on behalf of the town of Framingham and the ground department of the public schools," said Bercovitch. "He (Smith) told you he begged and pleaded for them to leave for 20 minutes. After 20 minutes, he was fed up. There's no argument, he was fed up, but is it reasonable to believe that it was just in the last minute he asked them to leave. I would suggest it was not."
Not only was Smith frustrated, Bercovitch said, but so were the defendants, who would not leave.
"That's all this case is about," she said. "Officer Smith has the authority to ask them to leave, he asked them to leave, they didn't leave, and he arrested them."
Also yesterday, both Schroeder and Osorio testified, while Smith was called as a rebuttal witness twice. Smith, Officer Benedetto Ottaviani, Torti and Snead were among those who testified Monday.
Schroeder testified that she was heading to her car when Smith arrested her. She said she even had her keys out ready to drive off.
"Officer Smith said, 'That's it,' and he threw me against the car," said Schroeder. "He yelled at me and said grow up."
Bercovitch asked Schroeder if she was mad when everything was happening, but she said she was more shocked and scared than angry. Bercovitch asked Schroeder why she did not call for help.
"You were scared? You didn't leave, did you? Did you call Edwin's mother? Did you call your mother? Did you call Jason's mother?" asked Bercovitch. "You were scared, but you went up to Officer Smith and questioned him?"
Schroeder said she was worried for Snead, who was later released from the cruiser and left before the arrests, and upset that Smith would not answer her questions.
At one point, Bercovitch looked at Schroeder's key chain and pointed out one that said "Property of Princess."
"Do you consider yourself a princess? Were you upset how he was treating you?" Bercovitch asked. The judge did not allow an answer to either question.
Later in the trial, Osorio said he was never told by anyone he should leave the snow fort before Smith came. He said he had heard someone had stopped and spoke to Snead, but he was not involved in the conversation.
Later, Osorio said he heard Smith berating Snead.
"I heard Officer Smith ask Edwin his name and where he lived," said Osorio. "I heard him ask if he (Snead) was a wise ass or trying to be smart by what he was doing at the snow mound."
Go ahead make my day.
I guess they've got no murderers, rapists, thieves, or stop sign runners in Framingham, so they go after the snow fort makers.
If they had raped a child, using a screwdriver as a threat, they would have 'walked' in Massachuetts.
If they had gang-raped children, passing them around the rapists,
they also would have 'walked' in Massachuetts.
Trespassing on another's property is a crime.
OTOH, taxpayers OWN public property.
Methinks the public servants here are forgetting that last minor point....
Another case where we now have law-enforcement instead of protect and serve.
Another case where we now have law-enforcement instead of protect and serve.
Are these kids paying taxes?
As well they should! These youngsters are not old enough to understand a crime like that. Illegal snow-forting, however, . . .
Also, since the Boston area has a rash of unsolved rapes widely ignored
-check the FR threads- don't you think the rapists
and illegal aliens which includes terrorists
are a much bigger threat than 'snow castle builders'?
Leave it to the home of the Kennedys - Taxachusetts!
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
At least Officer Smith didn't shoot them all.
So, if me and four buddies, as taxpayers, decided to go down to the local high school and start playing basketball in the gym, then school authorities would have to tell the basketball team to wait until we were done?
And you can substitute "and" for "instead".
Leni
Took pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to mention the aerial photography.
Their parents are.
If it was my kid, officer Smith would find himslef jacked up good. Officer Smith has no common sense. Too stupid to be a cop.
"Trespassing on another's property is a crime.
OTOH, taxpayers OWN public property.
Methinks the public servants here are forgetting that last minor point...."
Well, you can't use that argument and have kids walking around schools on weekends, or the courthouse, or the local government laboratory. In this particular case, the cop probably just wanted to stroke his own ego.
Yes.
whenever you purchase something, odds are, you will be paying taxes. Ok, its really a double taxation...the wages you received having already been taxed yet for some reason you must pay more tax when you use the money.
Personally, I believe taxes on food products (like tea) should never exceed 4% out of respect for Boston tea party.
Yes, the founders went to war because taxes were just to absurdly high... at 4%. Wonder what they would think of our current system (which would make King George proud)
This case, the teen in Ohio and kids pulling senior day pranks. The answer seems to be homeschool them, get them out from any other adult authority other than the parents. This to me is the greatest danger of homeschooling. Not that the children will have problems socializing with their peers, but that children will not be able to understand that they have to sometimes follow societies rules.
Enjoy your stay in jail. Seriously, you would "jack up" a cop because your darling little child decided to talk smack to him? I know what my dad's reaction would have been if I had been arrested for this.
How many kids in this country don't even know how much fun it is to build a snow fort because there is either no snow or no place on their property for a really neat one?
Not a good move to smart off to the officers, but the jig was up, their fun was ruined, and they won't have happy memories about snow forts to tell their grandchildren, if they ever get to that point.
OTOH, taxpayers OWN public property.
Methinks the public servants here are forgetting that last minor point....
Yes, but this is the people of the nation, for the nation, and by the nation.
I see nothing in this report indicating school functions were being interfered with by these children playing in the snow.
So, if me and my four buddies just want to sleep in the gym overnight- without disturbing school functions of course, then it's ok?
If your kids want to play in the snow, why shouldn't they? This was a case of a total lack of judgement by the police (assuming the report is accurate).
Framingham police make regular rounds of all town property at various times of every day. They likely saw these kids on school property on a snow day where the school was closed and decided to shoo them.
On the other hand...I grew up in that town. Framingham cops have always been like this. Lots of attitude and swagger. After all, one has reputation to uphold when you work for the largest town in America.
So it was one of those freak snowstorms where it just happened to snow only around the school?
Sounds like some hard heads got butted together and the cops won. They usually do. The kids should have moved on.
>>>>"Why would an officer exaggerate what happened," Norris continued. "Like all of us, he has a job. Everyone wants to be promoted, wants to get ahead." <<<<<
This one kind of bothered me, Do you get promoted in mass. By arresting kids building snow forts?
I am sure the tax payers want to keep these hardened criminals behind bars.
Cops usually exaggerate what happened. Many cops in rural areas have to create excitement, because many of these have not grown beyond the bully they were in school.
A snow fort???? Sounds like these youngsters were preparing for a rebellion. I say try them for sedition. And tell Deputy Fife to put his bullet away, and get back to filling out accidents reports. DF!
In this case, I see very little that indicates that the holder of authority was using it in a respectful way. I see another cop with a short man's complex, using authority in a way that deserves questioning.
If you want authority to be respected, you better entrust it to those deserving respect. Do you think that's the case here?
Based on what I perceive happened, if I were on this jury, there would have been a hung jury, at minimum
Time for this cop to be put on meter maid duty - without a gun. No judgment, no ability to influence a situation without wasting a lot peoples time and energy. Poor communication skills.
Restrict advancement opportunities and rate as poor performer.
Send a memo to all other cops - please do not arest any other kids playing in the snow.
Too bad the kids didn't paint a pink triangle on the fort -the media would be calling for the cop's head.
If I were a kid in Framingham I would have a hard time not treating this as an open invitation to give the cops some real crime and destruction to deal with. This totally deamages the cops and courts credibility. Since now anything is a crime, why not do anything?
Diva's Husband
Another country heard from WHO DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE about homeschooling.
Quit listening to the liberal propoganda, find a homeschool group, and talk to the parents about what they believe, and why they are homeschooling. Then find some people, 25 years old an above, who were homeschooled, and talk to them. Don't limit it to just one. Do a number of them. That way you know your results are accurate.
Then come talk to me about your lamea** comment.
But you weren't on the jury, and didn't hear all the information. When a policeman tells people they are trespassing and must leave the premises, well, the smart thing to do is say yes sir, sorry sir and leave. We didn't get all the facts from the story, and yes a lot of cops are power hungry Barnie Fifes. But, children need to be taught to respect authority.
"Not a good move to smart off to the officers,"
Now if asking a cop for his badge number is smarting off. Correct me if I'm wrong here but I believe a cop HAS to give his badge number when asked.
The other side of the story I don't believe we're hearing is that for some reason the jury trial did convict them.
That's a dumb over-the-top argument to make in a case like this. If you ever have me on a jury, don't start with a petty incident and claim that it has such overwhelming significance...it turns on the B.S. meter to everything said thereafter.
If the snowfort was simply on the public property and did not compromise the security of the building...the officer is a dolt.
Conversely, if the conversation went on more than a couple of minutes, the kids should have been gone. Surely there must be a dispatch record for the 20 minutes being roughly accurate, yes?
If this escalated because of a request for name and badge#, the local populace has a problem on its hands.
I remember going to the school yard for the snow BECAUSE the school was closed.
Either this jury is ILLITERATES or there is more to the story.
I am talking about the knee jerk reactions from many here on this forum who think that homeschooling is the be all and end all of all societies problems. The people who scream that any time a teacher tries to instill some discipline that teacher is a public school Nazi and my darling little child would never do such a thing, and how dare they yell at my kid.
Nonsense. Prison is for felons (those who have crimes punishable by more than a year of incarceration). Jail is for misdemeanants (and are usually county-oriented).
But this reporter is milking the sympathy factor for all he can get, and Freepers are falling for it. Of course they face 30 days -- and they will NEVER get that. Crimes have punishments, and the punishments have ranges. He's quoting the possible -- but absolutely unlikely -- to garner sympathy. This guy is playin' y'all like a violin.
That's because I look like this:
So you've ingnored the main point here, and are for enabling petty tyrants. Noted.
Now that I agree wholeheartedly with.
Sorry to come down on you a little too hard.
So let's get rid of all policemen. At 17 and 18 years old they should know better than to tick off the cops. I doubt that the cop would really arrest the kids unless they really were mouthing off.
She looks like a two-bit hooker...or a pop star. Same thing.
However, not all home schoolers are conservative. My cousin is a nut bag liberal, and her boys at 13 and 11 look like 9 year old girls. She allows them to study what they want, and doesn't seem to work too hard at teaching them about life (most likely because her parents were very forgiving about her actions). My best friends sister in law also home schools her kids. She weighs about 400 pounds, and I think she only home schools so she doesn't have to get up early in the morning to get the kids ready for school. The kids are dumb as posts and little tyrants who won't behave for anyone.
My point is most people are either not capable, or willing to put in the hard work necessary to ensure that home schooling works.
Also, from dealing with people at work, and listening to stories from my sister who teaches swimming lessons, if everyone home schooled this nation would be in big trouble. One woman was always complaining about the teachers who would get her monster child in trouble. How they would send him to the office for clowning around in class, and how he would get detentions for this or that. I heard her yelling at the principal about these punishments. She never disciplined him at home and now guess what, he dropped out of school and got his 15 year old girlfriend pregnant. He can't hold a job, despite his mom setting him up with friends and neighbors who own restaurants, shops lawn services etc. I doubt he would have done better with home schooling.
So god bless the people who can home school effectively, but I don't think that everyone can or should do it.
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