Your own employees in the federal government just declared you a farm animal. Bend over, here it comes again.
Posted on 05/08/2005 7:17:16 PM PDT by nextthunder
FAQ: How Real ID will affect you
What's all the fuss with the Real ID Act about? President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act--on Thursday.
What does that mean for me? Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards.
News.context
What's new: The House of Representatives has approved an $82 billion military spending bill with an attachment that would mandate electronically readable ID cards for Americans. President Bush is expected to sign the bill. Bottom line: The Real ID Act would establish what amounts to a national identity card. State drivers' licenses and other such documents would have to meet federal ID standards established by the Department of Homeland Security.
More stories on this topic The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.
How will I get one of these new ID cards? You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous.
For instance, you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa.
State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration.
What's going to be stored on this ID card? At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."
Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.
Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill? Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.
The House already approved a standalone version of the Real ID (continued from previous page)
Act in February, but by a relatively close margin of 261-161. It was expected to run into some trouble in the Senate. Now that it's part of an Iraq spending bill, senators won't want to vote against it.
What's the justification for this legislation anyway? Its supporters say that the Real ID Act is necessary to hinder terrorists, and to follow the ID card recommendations that the 9/11 Commission made last year.
It will "hamper the ability of terrorist and criminal aliens to move freely throughout our society by requiring that all states require proof of lawful presence in the U.S. for their drivers' licenses to be accepted as identification for federal purposes such as boarding a commercial airplane, entering a federal building, or a nuclear power plant," Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican, said during the debate Thursday.
You said the ID card will be electronically readable. What does that mean? The Real ID Act says federally accepted ID cards must be "machine readable," and lets Homeland Security determine the details. That could end up being a magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips.
In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders. The agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state.
Will state DMVs share this information? Yes. In exchange for federal cash, states must agree to link up their databases. Specifically, the Real ID Act says it hopes to "provide electronic access by a state to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other states."
Is this legislation a done deal? Pretty much. The House of Representatives approved the package on Thursday by a vote of 368-58. Only three of the "nay" votes were Republicans; the rest were Democrats. The Senate is scheduled to vote on it next week and is expected to approve it as well.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan has told reporters "the president supports" the standalone Real ID Act, and the Bush administration has come out with an official endorsement. As far back as July 2002, the Bush administration has been talking about assisting
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"the states in crafting solutions to curtail the future abuse of drivers' licenses by terrorist organizations."
Who were the three Republicans who voted against it? Reps. Howard Coble of North Carolina, John Duncan of Tennessee, and Ron Paul of Texas.
Paul has warned that the Real ID Act "establishes a national ID card" and "gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit."
Is this a national ID card? It depends on whom you ask. Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program, says: "It's going to result in everyone, from the 7-Eleven store to the bank and airlines, demanding to see the ID card. They're going to scan it in. They're going to have all the data on it from the front of the card...It's going to be not just a national ID card but a national database."
At the moment, state driver's licenses aren't easy for bars, banks, airlines and so on to swipe through card readers because they're not uniform; some may have barcodes but no magnetic stripes, for instance, and some may lack both. Steinhardt predicts the federalized IDs will be a gold mine for government agencies and marketers. Also, he notes that the Supreme Court ruled last year that police can demand to see ID from law-abiding U.S. citizens.
Will it be challenged in court? Maybe. "We're exploring whether there are any litigation possibilities here," says the ACLU's Steinhardt.
One possible legal argument would challenge any requirement for a photograph on the ID card as a violation of religious freedom. A second would argue that the legislation imposes costs on states without properly reimbursing them.
When does it take effect? The Real ID Act takes effect "three years after the date of the enactment" of the legislation. So if the Senate and Bush give it the thumbs-up this month, its effective date would be sometime in May 2008.
Your own employees in the federal government just declared you a farm animal. Bend over, here it comes again.
What if you live and work here illegally?
I think you are full of it. What ever it is, but your eye's are starting to turn brown.
If our esteemed government runs this program the way that they run border security we have nothing to worry about.
They will blow it!
I wish I had some confidence that the federal bureaucracy would use this "real ID" program to identify illegal aliens, terrorists, and identity thieves. But what are the chances that it will actually work, or that law enforcement officers will actually DO anything about illegals, or that ordinary citizens will be able to get their driver's licenses upgraded without going through incredible hassels?
This won't do a bit of good unless government resolves to actually do something about illegals. And what are the chances of that, when they are letting them loose right now as a matter of policy, and even giving them better tuition breaks than US citizens?
In addition to that perhaps we will have to pay extra license and document ID fees both to the state of our residency and to Uncle Sam's Piggy Bank.
"Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program, says: "It's going to result in everyone, from the 7-Eleven store to the bank and airlines, demanding to see the ID card. They're going to scan it in. They're going to have all the data on it from the front of the card...It's going to be not just a national ID card but a national database."
This is real simple to fix. Here in Texas our licenses have a magnetic strip on them with a lot of data. However, only Government entities are allowed to scan it. It is against the law for any business to scan it.
I never got a draft card, I just registered at the post office for Selective Service. Then I figured I would just volunteer before I got drafted. :)
If 7/11 does scan it, it won't be a national data base but a series of private ones.
To the OP, in the short run, I don't think there will be much effect for law abiding citizens... over time, mistakes in identity like happen now at airports may occur in a variety of situations and there is a risk as to what future governments will do.... it will not be hard, for example, to flag gun owners.
Opps... sorry I must have gotten it too close to that magnet.
You're right; that was easy to fix. RFID's? How'd my DL get into the microwave?
I love how our republican majority just shoved more government intrusion up our asses. I wonder how much the federal government has grown in the last 5 years compared to the first 5 of the idiot Clinton. I guess I shouldn't complain, it is for our own good. Sarcasm
Looks like the last step in conditioning to excepting the final form of ID.
Revelations 13:16-18 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to recieve in thier right hand , or in thier foreheads.(17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (18) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man; and his number is 666.
Digital Angel corporation out of south Florida already has, and is already using an implantable microchip for accomplishing just this. Mexico is using this technology in thier federal employees. If you don't think that this is the next logical step to the I.D. scenario, think again.
For those of you who say "Ya right, Whatever" I say to you.
2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after there own lusts. (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the begining of creation (5) For thisthey willingly are ignorant of..............
You sure about that? I have seen stores scan them when taking a check.
This article certainly sounds more like hysterical conjecture than an accurate report of a news story. Can anybody here verify this?
AND are we going to use these new ID's for voting??????????????
Declan McCullagh is usually a reliable source.
>>AND are we going to use these new ID's for voting??????????????<<
I don't see why that would be a problem but I know from experience here in Georgia that any ID for voting will meet strong resistance.
This is freaking nuts. So the plan now is to have our Mexican border totally open letting most who try in, whether or not they are carrying a backpack filled with drugs. But we'll use RealID tracking technology, crystal balls, and computers figure out who inside the US are terrorists.
Keep up the good work GOP.
I'll be the first to say it: the Mark of the Beast.
It's firmly established precedent. Unless you want to go to war over it, it's a done deal.
First example: instead of raising the consequences of driving without insurance, millions are forced to pay for uninsured driver insurance, at the cost of hundreds of millions.
Second example, criminals use bullets. Instead of keeping criminals (who steal weapons and bullets) in jail, they want to put numbers on ammunition at the cost of "only" a penny per bullet. Billions of bullets used by law abiding citizens will have to be marked at the cost of tens of millions of dollars in the insane hope of catching the handful of criminals dumb enough to buy and use bullets they've purchased themselves.
Third example: Instead of keeping out all casual visitors from islamic countries permanently (or until they deal with the problems of mindless killers among them) we are forced to waste hundreds of thousands of hours and become subject to asinine limitations on when and how we must travel.
Persecuting the innocent is a lot easier than concentrating on the criminals, and it keeps funding coming and continues the illusion that something useful is being done.
Good luck to all of us!
Why does it matter anyway? The Bill of Rights has been gutted, property rights are a joke, you need a permit to do anything, the government can search your car with no suspicion and demand you show ID at any time. There are so many laws that most people break them without even knowing. If each of us here was prosecuted for "crimes" that we didn't get caught for and probably didn't even know was a crime, the fines would be outlandish, and a lot of us would be in jail. I want the Constitution restored, or at least for people to stop talking about how free we are all of the time. We are one of the most legislated societies the world has ever seen. The only difference is that the laws are loosely enforced. That's not freedom.
document your birth date and address,
driver's license, again
and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be
What? That crappy little piece insecure of paper with a number stamped on it? yah, right. What OTHER SS# verification can One provide besides that (most easily counterfeitable of all) document?
Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders
What's Bushy gonna do? Leave big bins of 'em scattered along the fences with "SIN COSTE - TOMA UNA" signs on 'em?
"It's going to result in everyone, from the 7-Eleven store to the bank and airlines, demanding to see the ID card...."
Airlines? Okay - it's a FedLaw that I identify myself. Banks? I'd hope to hell that they would WANT to make sure I'm who I am! (even though it's the credit union office inside the building in which I work, and we see each other through the day anyway) The 7-11? Apu's got NO f'ing reason to see my card - and I'll cheerfully, maledictively, remind him of that.
...the Supreme Court ruled last year that police can demand to see ID from law-abiding U.S. citizens.
Already had that happen: I was being walked by my Dog <smile> - leash & license obviously visible to even the dumbest doughnut-muncher - and the DD-M didn't even bother asking who/where/etc. just "I need to see your license". Told him I didn't have it on me - if I drive, I carry it; if I don't, I don't. Said he needed to see a picture ID. Told him he was more'n welcome to follow us home and I'd show it to him there.
DD-M drove away without even asking my name: must not have been too-important a reason for ID-ing me... (I got his name, badge #, car #, and time of incident anyway)
That fine. You won't be boarding your flight today. Go get a new id with an RFID that works and book your flight for another day. People who fly won't make this mistake more than once.
Looks like Fedgov is backing off the RFID in passports, which is a good thing. With any luck, they'll not require it for the national ID card. Even if they do, there are always ways to overload the things and make them non-functional. Kinda like the way I currently make sure to deguass my drivers license when I get a new one.
Also, as a means for throwing a monkey wrench into things, I'd really like to be able to buy John Dillenger's thumbprint for use at the DMV.
This will make it more difficult for Terrorists to blend into society...
but like all well-intentioned government programs, this act will 'evolve' into something never intended or even contemplated.
Believe it or not, there are other ways to combat terrorism than to brand each and every American. But combatting terrorism is an opening for a larger goal.
Those in government and those that feed off of government have always dreamed of a means of absolute knowledge about their 'constituents' or 'base population'. And there are some very strange people in high places that relish with glee the notion of complete and absolute control over whoever.
They have now won the battle.
Are you a homophobe?
Have you ever protested too passionately?
Have you voted against certain candidates or for others, or against issues or for others?
This list can easily number in the hundreds with very little effort. Is this just paranoia? It could be. But for sure it could be recorded as such and permanently stored as the rantings of a paranoid fill-in-the-blanks categorization.
I mean could one ever see how we vote? Of course not! Right?
It's interesting to see the original Congressional record of debate over the federal income tax early last century. Proponents claimed it preposterous the hysterical notion that the income tax would ever be more than 8%. Claimed it would never happen.
Like leaking water, tyranny will always find a pathway to penetrate through barriers put up before it.
Do you own a gun?
Have you ever threatened anyone?
Do you have a history of family mental illness?
Have you ever been divorced?
Is your child homeschooled?
Do you get letters from the state of New York claiming you owe them taxes? How about California?
Do you have outstanding parking tickets? What if some agency says you do?
Everything you do, every place you go, everything you access, your behavior as judged by others will be recordable, to document and store permanently.
But that's Ok right? I mean it's no big deal about such permanent records right? Until a mistake is made. But then surely everyone will understand it's just an error right?
The former Soviet Union (ah yes, bring that old monster into the debate) had an efficient system of tracking people. Everyone was required to have a passport and in that passport everything about you was known. You couldn't travel unless you were permitted, and if you were permitted you weren't allowed to stay outside your 'assigned' area for more than two weeks without registering.
We're almost there.
I think you are full of it. What ever it is, but your eye's are starting to turn brown.
Well, I think you're a knuckledragging, feces eating, mongoloid. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Really if you don't want anyone to know who you are and to be anonymous I'd start by throwing that computer in the trash.
If you learned to spell and use "their" properly, your arguments from Scripture would be meaningful -- and not be embarassments to the rest of us...
"I think you are full of it. What ever it is, but your eye's are starting to turn brown."
Go back to DU you Soviet.
"The former Soviet Union [...]"
Exactly.
The RealID act is an affront to liberty and to States' rights. Frankly, I am less worried about a couple of guys sneaking across the border to pick lettuce then I am worried about an omnipresent federal government. I really wish Republican legislators would subject legislation like this to the "Reno test"; that is, would you be ok giving this power to AG Janet Reno?
That's the dirty little secret that doesn't get mentioned. This will eliminate a lot of voter fraud and negate the bad effects of motor voter even though the count every vote crowd fights against requiring ID to vote. It will also permit tightening up voter rolls which are full of errors.
That will be the last thing we will use them for. If using the cards to vote ever happens, all those dead people, convicts and illegals won't get to vote. The democrats will complain about not all votes being counted and not everyone THEY want to vote will be able to.
Awww...come on...SENATOR Hillary doesn't have enough information to play with in her FBI files... Don't you want HER to be able to track us all?
I take it you missed the discressionary powers for the DoHS part. How long before the department makes it mandatory for all financial transactions? Not very long since God knows we need to track all of those to keep us safe from the terrorists...
I think you people are nuts. You scream and yell that you want the illegal immigration stopped, but you refuse to even think about how complicated it would be to find and deport 10 million people. You don't think the government already knows lot about you. Just call the Social Security 800 number in the phone book and see how quickly they can pull your record up, or walk into an unemployment office. our work record pops right up there too. However false Social Securiy cards and lax rules for drivers licenses create lots of problems. Coperate to get this problem under control, we won't need gated communitiers anymore.
Maybe they have, and they just don't see any problem with using it to more efficiently burn women and children alive and killing innocent people in a standoff...
I don't entertain trolls. Go away.
The place to deal with illegal aliens is at the border and the ports of entry. Whining that we should "do something!" like you are is akin to teachers asking for more money because they're incompentent and turning out incompetent students. Why doesn't the federal government just tattoo serial numbers on our arms and get it over with. That would solve your problem wouldn't it?
"I think you people are nuts. You scream and yell that you want the illegal immigration stopped, but you refuse to even think about how complicated it would be to find and deport 10 million people."
Yeah. Except I support the Bush guest worker program. Moreover the best way to stop illegal immigration is to turn off the public benefits gravy train.
"You don't think the government already knows lot about you. Just call the Social Security 800 number in the phone book and see how quickly they can pull your record up, or walk into an unemployment office. our work record pops right up there too."
You commit a logical fallacy. The best solution to the abuse of Social Security numbers is to end that abuse - not to pile on more abuse.
"However false Social Securiy cards and lax rules for drivers licenses create lots of problems."
Yes, and you have the opportunity to vote for legislators at the State level to address the driver's licence issue - which is essentially a State problem.
"Coperate to get this problem under control, we won't need gated communitiers anymore."
I don't need a gated community now. But the thing about gated communities is that people voluntarily submit themselves to that security and pay for it out of their own pockets. Hmmm, that sounds like a fully internalized transaction - which is a good thing.
As for "cooperate to get this problem under control," have you ever noticed that programs like this never really go away once the problem is under control. I think I'll just go ahead and suffer some of those illegal migrant farmworkers instead.
I concur
What if you are a military retiree (with an already proved government i.d. card) and you live overseas?
Check here.
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/data/docmodel/78r/billtext/pdf/SB01445F.PDF
Effective 9/1/2003 it is illegal for anyone except government officers and financial institutions (with your written permission) to scan your Texas Drivers License.
Ho-Hum.
Apparently who wrote that was never in the military. Nice to have more checks on our less patriotic and illegal factions of society.
Last I checked, joining the military is voluntary, and rights are granted by our Creator, not the guvmint.
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