Posted on 05/09/2005 10:18:08 AM PDT by Dog Gone
Some folks suggested that we begin a thread similar to the Marsburg Surveillance Project for monitoring developments regarding Avian Flu.
The purpose is to have an extended thread where those interested can post articles and comments as this story unfolds.
If we're lucky, the story and this thread will fade away.
Perhaps, however the Avian Influenza Bird Flu Information summary and the referenced ProMed articles indicate that Resveratrol in supplement form is more stable:
"Resveratrol supplements are relatively inexpensive, are more stable than wine and is available in liquid form for absorption in the mouth. No toxic effects noted. (Pubmed PMID 1583880, 12817628, 15985724) "
Indeed it is. It is also listed on the Summary. MOreover, there are ProMed articles supporting this. The problem that I had with Cat's Claw was one of the side effects, to wit:
"Children and pregnant women are to avoid. Has a potentially damaging effect on the DNA of proliferating cells (cancers, foetuses, growing children)"
My rationale is that there are several items that work here, I don't need each and every one. However, your idea is equally valid.
I couldn't agree more. None of us are physicians and the available literature is pretty sparse.
These are well-known substances that have had recent research showing that they MAY be helpful in case of various viral infection. No research has been done on any of them with H5N1 patients, to the best of my knowledge.
You are certainly correct: there is no direct, clinical tests with any of these substances. However, there is pretty good research in the open literature that makes a strong case. In particular, there are two sets of published results:
1. Studies that show that H5N1 produce a cytokine storm with at least 3 specific proteins: TNF-a, IP-10, and IL-6.
2. Studies that show, demonstrably and clinically, that these substances (with the exception of NAC and Sambucol) do reduce those specific cytokines.
However, I certainly acknowledge that there is a good deal of uncertainty with this. Which leads me to the clearly scientific conclusion:
I am going to shotgun this. These things are basically harmless in modest quantities. I will take them because they do no measureable harm. One or several of them may be helpful. Using several all at once is simple statistics: it improves the odds. Finally, since there are not too many other alternatives, this makes sense. I will of course pursue parallel strategies if necessary: isolation and Tamiflu prescription (if I can get it).
That's the only viable strategy I can see. Again, well done.
With many herbs, I have come to see that GI absorption is a real issue. One has to be careful when skimming the abstracts of research reports to ensure that the effect noted isn't solely an in vitro one. (I am not referring to any particular study mentioned in this thread.)
At the same time, when you improve absorption with a natural substance like piperine or a drug like probenecid, you have to be very careful not to inadvertently increase the absorption of other drugs taken concurrently.
Those are just some things I've been thinking about.
Thanks, Bear. Good points.
Weak Strain Of Bird Flu Found At Sun Valley Farm
(CBS) SUN VALLEY (California) Japanese quails suffering from a low pathogenic strain of bird flu were discovered in a Sun Valley quail farm.
The Bureau of Humane Law Enforcement, a non-governmental, nonprofit organization devoted to defending animals, began investigating conditions at the now-defunct L.A. Quail Farm earlier this year.
The agency served a warrant at the farm and discovered the quails living in unsanitary conditions with a multitude of illnesses.
All the animals were seized on Nov. 12 and were tested.
The bureau’s veterinarian determined many of the birds had a variety of diseases, fast-moving respiratory ailments, infections, injuries and lesions. Most disturbing was the diagnosis of a low pathogenic strain of avian influenza among the quails, which had been raised and kept at the facility.
The birds had been raised for human consumption
I can't recall if we've discussed it much on this thread or not, but they are using LPAI-H5N1 and HPAI-H5N1. These two stand for:
Low Pathogen Avian Influenza H5N1
High Pathogen Avian Influenza H5N1
Supposedly LP-H5N1 is a milder infection, and HP-H5N1 is the one that kills half the people who get it. I know little more about it than that, just that I have read about this differentiation. I have no idea what the implications are for vaccines--literally, I've just recently read about the split.
Anyway....
I just don't like hearing even the LPH5N1 is so near; California or B.C. Yikes.
Or is that the 2006 model?
Just to be on the safe side, no doubt....
You would think that if there really is such a differentiation (maybe there is, I haven't read enough to know) in two such similar viruses, that the LP version might offer some immunity against the HP version...if they're POSITIVE it's the LP version, why not just leave it alone?
I honestly know nothing about this; I can't help speculating, and it's worth exactly nothing. I'm going to see what information I can find.
Okay, here is a link to a Recombinomics article.
http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11190503/H5N1_LPAI_Manitoba.html
It's from November 19th. I am REALLY getting behind...
In the next day or two I'm going to put together information about herbs I am familiar with, for either strengthening the body's resistence to illness or dealing with symptoms. Most of the herbs I've taken; in fact, recently I got a flu-like illness, took a formula we put together, and my illness was very mild (which is not usual).
I'll post it on the Preparedness thread. I prefer whole, powdered herbs to any kind of extracts or concentrates. Nature includes all kinds of things in herbs that may not be considered "active ingredients" but they act together in concert, and help in ways that perhaps science hasn't bothered to figure out.
I've also noticed, with herbs, that taking a tiny bit once or twice doesn't do any good. They have to be taken consistently several times a day.
In the formulas we use (we put them together) we always include some catalyst herbs - to help digest the herbs themselves, speed their absorption. Spices usually. If anyone particularly wants to be pung when I post it, ping me!
Yes please, ROFL!
Okay, I'll pingify you!
Will do.
I'm posting some stuff we put together about immune system strengthening and symptom relief on the Avian Preparedness thread. If you read it (it's long) and have ?s just ping or freepmail me. Some of the herbs will no doubt be very unfamiliar.
Link to Preparedness thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1453571/posts?q=1&&page=201
I will discuss which are catalyst herbs on the Preparedness thread tomorrow. THe info I posted there is really not in a good form, too hard to understand. I'm planning on re-writing it tonight in a more "digestible" form and will note which are the herbs you asked about.
Daily Bird Flu News Updates:
VNECONOMY - 5th December 2005
Vietnam expands cattle breeding as poultry substitute
VIETNAM - Vietnam's cattle breeding sector is sharply developing as avian influenza ravages the poultry industry, according to the Ministry of Agriculture and Rural Development (MARD).
The country's cattle herds have reached 4.9 million head, up 4.1 percent over the last year. The number of buffalo also increased to 2.8 million. The breeding of goats and sheep is seeing the highest jump, over 20 percent, with about 1 million head.
"500,000 oseltamivir capsules" aka Tamiflu, if I'm not mistaken.
If anyone knows more about Tamiflu, post it up! There've been articles recently stating that Tamiflu is useless, and also one of the CFR transcripts says that Tamiflu shouldn't be given to people who are sick (may render the virus more virulent) but to people who get exposed. There is a cloudy mirk about the whole subject of Tamiflu. I'd like to know more about it.
Monday, December 05, 2005
No bird flu risk for consumers from properly cooked poultry and eggs, says UN
GLOBAL - Chicken and other poultry are safe to eat if cooked properly, according to a joint statement by FAO and the World Health Organization (WHO) issued to national food safety authorities. However, no birds from flocks with disease should enter the food chain.
FAO/WHO made the statement to clarify food safety issues in relation to the current bird flu crisis. The statement has been issued through the International Food Safety Authorities Network (INFOSAN) and is available in six languages.
In areas where there is no bird flu outbreak in poultry, there is no risk that consumers will be exposed to the virus via the handling or consumption of poultry and poultry products.
Cooking of poultry (e.g. chicken, ducks, geese, turkeys and guinea-fowl) at or above 70° Celsius throughout the product, so that absolutely no meat remains raw and red, is a safe measure to kill the H5N1 virus in areas with outbreaks in poultry, FAO/WHO said. This ensures that there is no active virus remaining if the live bird had been infected and had mistakenly entered the food chain. To date, there is no epidemiological evidence that people have become infected after eating contaminated poultry meat that has been properly cooked.
Poultry
From the information currently available, a large number of confirmed human cases acquired their infection during the home slaughtering and subsequent handling of diseased or dead birds prior to cooking. FAO and WHO emphasize that in the process of killing and preparing a live bird for food, slaughtering poses the greatest risk of passing the virus from infected or diseased birds to humans.
Most strains of avian influenza virus are mainly found in the respiratory and gastrointestinal tracts of infected birds, and not in meat. However, highly pathogenic viruses, such as the H5N1 strain, spread to virtually all parts of an infected bird, including meat. Proper cooking at temperature at or above 70°C in all parts of the product will inactivate the virus.
When a diseased bird is slaughtered, defeathered and eviscerated, virus from that bird can transfer to humans through direct contact. Infected poultry excrete virus in their secretions and faeces. Exposure might also occur when the virus is inhaled through dust and possibly through contact with surfaces contaminated with the virus.
In areas where marketing of live birds is common, the practices of home slaughtering, defeathering, and eviscerating increase the exposure to potentially contaminated parts of a chicken. These practices therefore result in a significant risk of infection in areas with outbreaks in poultry.
It is not always possible to differentiate infected and non-infected birds in outbreak areas. Some avian species, such as domestic ducks, may harbour the virus without displaying symptoms. Therefore, people need to be fully informed about preventive measures, including the use of protective equipment. The practice of slaughtering and eating of infected birds, whether diseased or already dead, must be stopped, FAO and WHO warn. These birds should also not be used for animal feed.
Even in areas or countries where outbreaks are currently occurring, the likelihood of infected poultry entering an industrialized slaughtering and processing chain, and eventually being marketed and handled by a consumer or a restaurant worker, is considered to be very low, FAO/WHO said. Good hygienic practices during preparation and cooking poultry at temperatures of 70°C or above will further contribute to the safety of cooked poultry meat.
Proper vaccination of domestic poultry is considered to be a useful tool as part of an overall integrated strategy for the control of HPAI. It must be implemented in accordance with existing standards and procedures for vaccination. With appropriate monitoring programs in place, vaccinated poultry can enter the food chain without particular risk for the consumer.
Eggs
Highly pathogenic avian influenza virus can be found inside and on the surface of eggs laid by infected birds. Although sick birds will normally stop producing eggs, eggs laid in the early phase of the disease could contain viruses in the egg-white and yolk as well as on the surface of the shell.
Proper cooking inactivates the virus present inside the eggs. Pasteurization used by industry for liquid egg products is also effective in inactivating the virus.
Eggs from areas with outbreaks in poultry should not be consumed raw or partially cooked (i.e., with runny yolk), FAO/WHO advise. To date, there is no epidemiological evidence to suggest that people have been infected with avian influenza by consumption of eggs or egg products.
Source: Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) - 5th December 2005
Am I allowed one teeny sentence from Rowters?
Hi ...Has anyone seen this and is it bad news?
Poor vaccines seen hampering bird flu efforts
Time is GMT + 8 hours
Posted: 09 December 2005 0526 hrs
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/health/view/182712/1/.html
LONDON : Efforts to control the spread of bird flu in poultry in Southeast Asia are being hampered by the use of ineffective and often fake agricultural vaccines, a British virologist said Thursday.
As a result, ineffective animal vaccines could be increasing the threat of the virus evolving and being able to pass to humans, triggering a potentially catastrophic pandemic, said animal flu specialist Robert Webster.
To combat the problem, Webster, director of the World Health Organisation's Collaborating Centre for Studies on the Ecology of Influenza in Animals and Birds, called for more rigorous minimum standards for agricultural vaccines.
"There are good vaccines and bad vaccines. Good vaccines reduce virus load; bad vaccines stop the signs of disease but the virus keeps replicating, spreading and evolving," he told reporters in London.
"The chickens look perfectly healthy but go on pumping out viruses for a long time. We have to ask the question, why are these animal influenza viruses showing so much antigenic drift?
"I would argue that contributing to this is the use of bad vaccines."
(excerpt)
Thanks very much, I will pass it along to people who may be thinking about Tamiflu.
(Dec. 10, 2005)
09 Dec 2005 15:52:03 GMT
OTTAWA - Chinese officials have concealed bird flu outbreaks in several provinces for many months this year, a leading virologist in Hong Kong told Canada's Globe and Mail newspaper in an interview published on Friday.
"I don't know if they are brave enough to admit that they have the virus in every corner of the country," said Guan Yi of the University of Hong Kong, who the Globe said had analyzed nearly 100,000 bird flu virus samples from across China.
"Quite honestly, some provinces have the virus and they still haven't announced any outbreak. I can show direct evidence, even though China is still trying very hard to block my research," the newspaper quoted him as saying.
China has so far reported more than 30 outbreaks of bird flu and five cases where the virus spread to humans.
Beijing has promised resources and openness in fighting bird flu after being widely criticized for an initial cover-up of the SARS virus in 2003.
The disease mostly affects birds, but scientists fear it could mutate into a form that can pass easily between people, leading to a human influenza pandemic.
The World Health Organization said this week that the virus might be going undetected or unreported in China, citing the case of a 10-year-old girl who fell ill with bird flu in a village that had not reported any poultry outbreaks.
Guan said he had evidence that bird flu had been circulating in the southwestern province of Yunnan many months before officials there confirmed an outbreak on Nov. 17.
"Why has this virus been burning for 10 years like a fire?" he asked the Globe and Mail.
"Ask the Chinese Ministry of Agriculture. They should not avoid the question. It's obvious that it's out of control in China. It started off in Guangdong province and now the whole of China has the virus."
The WHO and the Food and Agriculture Organization both say Beijing does a good job of quickly culling birds and disinfecting and quarantining affected areas.
http://www.peacehall.com/news/gb/english/2005/12/200512100209.shtml
Is it just me or do others see this train crash happening in slow motion too?
I'd say that is a fair assessment, unfortunately. Did you see the avian flu program (a new one) on National Geographic tonight? They didn't seem to cut any corners. I hope a lot of the sheeple watched it, might wake up a few.
Doubtful, the ones saying this will never happen will be the first ones on the rooftops yelling for help when this hits.
Flu fears as thousands of migratory birds die in Malawi
Fears that avian influenza may have reached Malawi are on the rise after thousands of migratory birds dropped dead in the centre of the southern African country.
"Police were alerted that scores of villagers were feasting on the mysterious 'mana from heaven'," said Wilfred Lipita, livestock and animal director in Malawi's agricultural ministry.
"We have cautioned them not to eat the dead birds since they may contain avian flu which has proved to be deadly to humans in other countries," Lipita told AFP on Friday.
The H5N1 bird virus has killed more than 70 people through Asia since 2003. World health bodies have warned that once the virus achieves the ability to transmit from human to human, millions of people could die.
Malawi has not reported any cases of avian flu, but Lipita said it was "unusual for birds to die in their thousands in a short time."
He said the birds called the Common Drongo (Dicrurus adsimilis) -- locally called the "Namzemze" -- started dropping dead early this week at a hill in Ntchisi district, some 200 kilometres (125 miles) east of the administrative capital Lilongwe.
Locals started collecting to eat the birds, which were believed to have migrated from Israel after one of them had a ring enscribed with the word "Israel" on it.
Malawi has sent blood and tissue samples to South Africa as it was the only southern African country with the capacity to test for bird flu, Lipita said. — AFP
Thanks for the creepy update...
Manna from heaven? Yikes!
Phnom Penh - Bird flu has yet to achieve human-to-human transmission, but subtle mutations in the virus are bringing the world closer to a pandemic, the UN's coordinator on avian influenza said on Friday.
"There are some subtle changes in the genetic makeup of H5N1 which suggest that it is making some of the mutations that would enable it to have a higher likelihood of being able to become a human-to-human transmitted virus," said David Nabarro.
"Virologists who study these things say do not get complacent. It is quite feasible that H5N1 could mutate. The fact that it has taken some years should not lead you to believe that we are through the worst."
Nabarro was speaking in Phnom Penh during a one-day visit to Cambodia, which has seen at least four human bird flu deaths.
Difficulties stockpiling anti-virals
He warned that there are difficulties stockpiling enough anti-viral medicines to combat the illness.
"We all would like there to be much more stock of anti-viral medicines. We are in a bit of difficulty because the production capacity, particularly of (Tamiflu), is quite restricted," he said, adding that the UN was in regular talks with drug manufacturers to build up stocks.
The bird flu virus has killed more than 70 people through Asia since 2003 and resulted in the culling of millions of birds, dealing a huge blow to regional poultry industries.
World health bodies have warned that once the virus achieves the ability to transmit from human to human, millions of people could die.
Nabarro, who will also visit Vietnam and Indonesia, commended Cambodia for its effort to combat the virus.
"Cambodia has to be prepared for a possible pandemic and my understanding is that is happening," he said.
"I don't say everything is fine because there is still much more to be done. One of the reasons I came to this country was because I believe there are lessons from Cambodia ... that need to be shared elsewhere."
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Bird_flu/0,,2-10-1959_1851798,00.html
POSTED: 2:33 am EST December 16, 2005
NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- A Connecticut food importer and its owner pleaded guilty Thursday to smuggling chicken feet from Thailand and selling them to specialty grocers around the country, a crime that investigators discovered this year while trying to prevent an outbreak of bird flu.
Chicken feet are an Asian delicacy but imports from Thailand are banned because of concerns about the deadly virus, which has killed at least 69 people in Asia since 2003. Amid concerns about the disease, health inspectors in Ohio searched several grocers in March and discovered chicken feet in stock.
Investigators traced them back to a West Haven company, Food King Inc. Between 2001 and 2005, prosecutors said, the company imported more than 920 cases -- or 27,600 pounds -- of chicken feet and sold them to stores in at least 11 states.
"I know that chicken feet from Thailand are not allowed in the U.S.," owner Vichittra Aramwatananont said in court Thursday.
There were no reports of health problems in connection to the imports, and health officials said the company cooperated with a voluntary recall.
Aramwatananont, who is known in the United States as "Vicki," faces up to six months in prison but is not expected to receive jail time when she is sentenced March 24. The company remains open and will pay $170,000 as part of a plea agreement.
Aramwatananont left court without comment Thursday and is free until sentencing.
Besides Connecticut, the product was shipped to Ohio, Georgia, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Tennessee and Wisconsin, prosecutors said.
Because the item was banned, Food King sold it, for cash, in packages labeled as jellyfish.
"All the stores knew it was, in fact, chicken feet," prosecutor Doug Morabito said.
http://www.wnbc.com/health/5549294/detail.html?rss=ny&psp=news
self ping to bookmark
Most of you have probably seen this, but it is worth inclusion on this thread as well.
Not much interest in news about H5N1 lately, but this is still one of the biggest potential threats facing humanity.
This remains the best and most complete FR thread on H5N1, and perhaps on the net. Personally, I would like to keep it at least somewhat up to date.
I continue to suspect we are seeing the "Herald Wave" this year, and next year will be the real thing. But if this flu season is going to be "it", then the news from Turkey is the kind of thing I would expect to see first.
Lord knows the world has enough trouble without H5N1 right now.
Thank you very much, EH. I agree, there is priceless information here.
The organization of the information is strictly chronological, which could be an important resource writing the history of the beginning of the next pandemic...
Red Alert for Bird Flu: Third Child Dies, Nine More Positive
The location of the outbreak is in Turkey, and the info covers much more than the title suggests.
ANKARA -- A third child from the same family has died of bird flu at a hospital in eastern Turkey.
About 25 people were being treated for possible bird flu symptoms early yesterday as health and agriculture authorities tried to manage more outbreaks across the east of Turkey.
Most of the sick came from the town of Dogubayazit, around 200km from Van, the last large town in Turkey before the Iranian border.
Hulya Kocyigit, 11, from Dogubayazit, died only a day after her 15-year-old sister, Fatma Kocyigit, succumbed to the disease on Thursday. Their brother Mehmet Ali Kocyigit, 14, died on Sunday.
Another 25 to 30 people had come in for blood tests and had received medical care and left; one was on life support, the hospital official said.
New bird flu cases were detected in five areas in eastern and southeastern Turkey, and authorities have culled 7000 fowl in those areas, Agriculture Minister Mehdi Eker said. "This is a serious problem," he added.
According to reports, the Kocyigit family took their fowl inside the house when temperatures fell at night and killed and ate the chickens when they got sick.
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,17747480%255E663,00.html
The religious holiday of Kurban Bayrami is celebrated in Turkey this year in just a few days, 10-11-12-13 January 2006. Bayrami is a four-day festival when sacrificial sheep are slaughtered and their meat distributed to the poor.
Info on Kurban Bayrami (from the link below):
Eid-ul-Adha, Kurban Bayrami in Turkish (the "Feast of Sacrifice") is the great festival of Islam. It is also known as Baqri-Eid (the "Cow Festival") because its most important feature is the sacrifice of an animal (cow, goat, sheep, or other appropriate beast) in commemoration of the ram sacrificed by Abraham in place of his son. In Muhammad's time a camel was usually the animal sacrificed. The command to perform sacrifices is given in Surah 22.36 and although no specific day is fixed in the Qur'an the sacrificing of animals was already practiced on the last day of the pilgrimage by the pre-Islamic Arabs and the institution was duly retained. A special prayer, similar to the Eid-ul-Fitr prayer, is also offered on this day before the animals are sacrificed.
Every Muslim home is obliged to offer a sacrifice on this day. The meat may be eaten by the family but a distribution of a generous share to the poor should also be made. As the two Eids (bayrams) are festive occasions, it is unlawful to fast on these days. Fasting on Eid-ul-Adha (Kurban Bayrami) would, in fact, defeat the whole object of the festival for food is to be eaten on this day with a cheerful heart in remembrance of God's bounty and provision for mankind.
FYI - here is the definitive Bird Flu thread, haven't seen it for a while since there hasn't been much in the news about the Bird Flu. But some updates have been added.
AP: WHO: Deaths in Turkey Were From H5N1 Flu
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060107/ap_on_he_me/bird_flu
"The Turkish victims' doctor said the three children
probably contracted the illness by playing with dead chickens."
No solid indications of human-to-human yet.
From what I have read, you can't deduce human to human transmission with the facts coming out of Turkey.
Looks like bird to human transmission going on here.
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