Skip to comments.Avian Flu Surveillance Project
Posted on 05/09/2005 10:18:08 AM PDT by Dog Gone
click here to read article
Flu halted on B.C. duck farms, officials say
By PETTI FONG
Saturday, November 26, 2005 Page A10
VANCOUVER -- One week after a duck at a Chilliwack farmtested positive for avian flu, health officials say they are cautiously optimistic that the virus has stopped spreading.
Canadian Food Inspection Agency veterinarian Con Kiley said yesterday that 4,500 birds from nearly 90 per cent of all farms in the surrounding area have been tested since last week.
"One week after the initial detection, we are cautiously optimistic," he said. "It remains contained and not extended to the more susceptible chicken and turkey populations."
Daily Bird Flu News Updates:
CP - 26th November 2005
Wild ducks tested positive for H5 avian flu viruses in Canada
HALIFAX - Officials confirmed Friday that 35 wild birds sampled in the Maritimes tested positive for H5 avian influenza viruses, but said they did not believe any were carrying the virulent strain of H5N1 avain flu responsible for widespread poultry outbreaks in Southeast Asia.
The infected birds, mostly black ducks and mallards, were found largely in an area around the Tantramar marshes near the Nova Scotia-New Brunswick border. One positive case was found in Prince Edward Island. All of the birds were said to be in good health, leading scientists to believe they were not carrying the strain that has killed at least 68 people overseas.
"I don't call it a concern whatsoever," Dr. Pierre-Yves Daoust of the Atlantic Veterinary College in Charlottetown said Friday. "These are still preliminary results, but 35 of them were positive."
But further tests need to be done to fully identify the viruses and conclusively rule out any link to the Asian virus. That testing, which will be done at the National Centre for Foreign Animal Disease in Winnipeg, will include comparing the genetic sequences of the viruses to the Asian H5N1.
bump for excellence.
Thanks for the update.
Yeah, I would hate for it to be sold short. Many times, in close brush with death cases, very little makes the difference between life and death. You can see this in ICUs. Tamiflu doesn't have to be a "King Kong" against viruses, it only needs to interfere with replication enough to make the difference.
I know there are quite a few casual readers of this thread and I'd hate to see them write it off, along with curcumin, NAC and other things that have their own pros and cons.
The article on herbal Tamiflu alternatives was a pretty good article because it gave PubMed references for most of the suggestions. I decided to loop up those references and learn a little more.
One of the best was: Proinflammatory cytokine responses induced by influenza A (H5N1) viruses in primary human alveolar and bronchial epithelial cells., which discussed the "cytokine storm" and the possible mechanism for the lethality of H5N1, namely the overstimulation of the immune cytokine system. This article had also been referenced in the Avian Influenza Bird Flu Information summary.
What I found particularly interesting about this particular article is that it cited the specific cytokines that were associated with the immune response. Those were: TNF-a, IL-6, and IP-10. Significantly, the Avian Influenza Bird Flue Information Summary also cited: "Below is a list of foods that are said to contain substances that are natural antivirals, immune boosters or they decrease cytokines TNF-a and IL-6." Therefore, the summary of anti-virals and cytokine suppressants discussed in the summary only included TNF-a and IL-6. IP-10, which was prominently mentioned in the ProMed article was absent from the summary. So, I decided to look more closely in the Promed database for IP-10 suppressants. I found one article: Ginger extract components suppress induction of chemokine expression in human synoviocytes.
Significantly, the only reference I could find on the suppression of IP-10 was Ginger. Moreover, this research was done at the renown Johns Hopkins Medical School.
In our previous discussions, we had come up with a tentative list from those discussions. My variant of this list was (in rough order of importance):
Sambucol (this is somewhat controversial)
St. Johns Wort
I have eliminated other candidates because the results were not well-substantiated or there were significant side effects.
To this list we must now add:
Outstanding post. It should be added to the Avian Flu Prep thread, if and when you get a chance...
I am presently using Cinnamon and Turmeric for other reasons, primarily these:
Cinnamon is good for insulin response and blood sugar levels, also benefits triglycerides and good cholesterol. Turmeric is an anti-inflammatory and has a shown detectable improvement in my RA.
I also take my elderberry "potion" on days I go out in public, just before and just after.
Ginger is an excellent addition. Thanks for the information.
Thanks for posting your research. Excellent info 2ndreconmarine.
Thanks! - Bump.
Also, for new readers, curcumin is the active ingredient from turmeric. Turmeric used as spice has far too little to be useful. It should be in a concentrated form (about 95% standardized). And curcumin in any form has to be supplemented by an absorption facilitator (i.e. piperine), or it is not absorbed effectively. The usual cautions about piperine over-facilitating absorption of prescription medications applies and should be observed.
My son came down with this year's flu (not bird flu, obviously) this last weekend. He got it full-bore. I immediately gave him Sambucol in large doses. The fever broke in 36 hours and all symptoms (nausea, fever, headaches, bodyaches, coughing) were gone in 3.5 days. This stuff is great.
Thank you for this addition. Also, thank you for the reference. We now have peer-reviewed journal articles for every single item.
The location where I buy Turmeric has it as a supplement, not a spice. It is standardized to 95% curcuminoids.
Thank you all for your responses.
BTW, all of the items we have discussed I have purchased very inexpensively at: Swanson Vitamins, and no I don't own stock or anything. The entire list can be had in reasonable quantity for under $100.
The revised list is then:
Sambucol (this is somewhat controversial, but I like it)
Turmeric (standardized to 95% curcuminoids)
St. Johns Wort
By the way, an interesting observation I have made about all of this. Most of these items are listed as antioxidants in the nutritional catalogs, in fact, all of them are antioxidants except Sambucol, St. Johns Wort, and maybe Cinnamon.
When I went through my lists and purchased OTC products, I first ordered two of each. Then I went back and ordered four of each. Now I'm going to order another four (I'll order the NAC-Sustain this time). With a product like NAC, if you have a few people in the family and take it twice a day, a bottle doesn't last long!
Same with Elderberry extract. I did choose the Planetary Formulas brand because it had twice the potency per volume, but it has since gone up twice in price!
Actually, regular turmeric has enough curcuminoids to be effective for easing symptoms of RA, in doses of approximately 1/4 teaspoon twice a day. I know much larger or more concentrated amounts are safe (except for people with gall stones, who should not take turmeric at all). I imagine effective doses vary. I wouldn't hesitate to use the 95% curcumin (which I haven't found except online, just not available in my rural area) in case of a bad case of flu, just emphasizing that smaller doses can be effective as well.
Again, the turmeric is effective for ME. Others may want or need curcumin 95%.
But for cytokine suppression? I know there is one guy on TB2K who uses a less concentrated dose with good results for RA as well.
"Antioxidants" has become a strong marketing word in vitamin/nutrition sales. Perhaps someday someone can explain it to me in a way that I find persuasive. For now, that word triggers my hype-sensor more than it satisfies my understanding.
But elsewhere, I saw speculation that the claims of the uselessness of most resveratrol supplements was a ploy by the big pharmaceuticals to reduce the impact that that supplement risked having on their drug sales.
Do a Google search for Longevinex for more details.
As best as I can tell, the jury is still out.
We need some lab or clinical trials on the usefulness of ordinary resveratrol supplements, not lab grade, nitrogen packed stuff.
Ordinary everyday metabolic processes produce a certain number of free radicals--unstable molecules that can interfere with the functions of body cells in important ways. Some interference can be with cell reproduction, replacing healthy cells with daughter cells that have DNA damage from the free radicals. Free radicals can also interfere with cell functions, such as the manufacture of enzymes, etc.
Antioxidants join with free radicals in the body to render them harmless. There is only a limited supply of antioxidants, they are supplied mainly by diet. A number of foods, INCLUDING FRESH COFFEE, have a high level of antioxidant chemicals in them which help prevent degenerative changes caused by the free radicals.
Antioxidants are real, and they are a GOOD thing--help you stay physiologically young and healthy. Not hype. ;-D
(Simplified very basic explanation, hope it helps.)
I'm adding Cat's Claw to my collection.
The "story" behind antioxidants you relate quite clearly. I have no doubt of the chemistry you describe.
It strikes me that this simple chemical bonding mechanism is applicable to a wide variety of reactions, chemicals and nutrients. It is almost like saying "wet is good", referring to the body's need for water.
There are too many nutrients with antioxidant properties for that attribute to provide much guidance. The studies I've seen (though I have not seriously researched this) show that various good foods and nutrients which are among those with antioxidant properties have various healthy affects, but it is seldom clear that it is exactly the antioxidant property that is responsible for the healthy affect, and too often supplementation with the specific antioxidant chemical (vitamin, mineral, ...) is less successful in demonstrating healthy affects. While such clinical trials seem to be inconclusive, it is patently clear from the labeling and marketing of nutritional supplements that the word "antioxidant" has become a sales driver, rather like the word "sale" for women's clothing.
The end result is that I have not found the label of "antioxidant" a useful guide in selecting nutritional supplements.
My intuition is that specific remedies for specific ailments, such as tumeric for arthritis, aren't simply a case of "antioxidants are good", but rather have more specific affects, caused by specific compounds, on the particulars of the ailment.
Good reading this morning. Thanks for all the information regarding suppliments. I'll look into them all and make sure they won't be interfering with anything I am currently taking.
How much Cinnamon, Tumeric and Ginger is recommeded daily to improve immunity?
Cinnamon, Turmeric and Ginger are spices, foods, and to the best of my knowledge, there is no recommended daily amount.
If you buy them as supplements, bottled and in gelcaps, the bottle will have a recommended amount to take, on it.
Good luck with that...I'm not sure, after the antioxidant exchange, if you're asking questions or if you have a broad knowledge base on supplements. I don't, as you must have guessed.
My guess is that resveratrol is less useful as a tnf-A or IL inhibitor than other supplements may be. For example, curcumin 95% standardized has been lab shown to have Cox inhibitor-like effects as far as inflammation is concerned, to have anti-inflammatory effects similar to the corticosteroids at some levels, and also to cause emptying of the gall bladder, so that people who have gall stones should probably not take it. Neither should pregnant or nursing women, because the effects at a high level on those populations aren't known. As far as toxicity, large doses apparently can be taken with no ill effects on the rest of the population who are not pregnant and have no gall stones.
But resveratrol, on the other hand, is found in high levels in, say, Pinot Noir wine, (or whatever wine) and rapidly degrades after the bottle is opened. In other words, (as you suggest) so far, it's unstable for practical use.
Let me go a little further and state that nobody here is prescribing. These are well-known substances that have had recent research showing that they MAY be helpful in case of various viral infection. No research has been done on any of them with H5N1 patients, to the best of my knowledge.
Some here have found what seems to possibly be helpful, through their own reading and use. I sincerely doubt that there is going to be a huge research effort anywhere in the world that is going to give us definitive answers on the use of supplements that possibly have antiviral action in an H5N1 pandemic.
What we are looking for is known supplements with antiviral action that are inexpensive and relatively easy to stock up for possible need. I bet very few care about the antioxidant levels, but I could be wrong.
And I DO apologize--I thought you were asking a question about antioxidants, and it's clear I was mistaken.
Sorry I surprised you on that one. Take care and keep up the good work.
Then all is well. Thanks. ;-D
Appreciate the clarification. I hope that warning is on the supplement bottle. I've never seen one, but it should be.
There is a long history of proprietary herbal formulas that claim to render all the competitors obsolete, for one reason or another. I am skeptical and would like to see the results of independent testing as well. I remember in the 80s a friend of mine was selling a vitamin supplement that was "1000% more active" than the others. I don't believe the company is still in business.
I am especially skeptical of health websites that start out with a Flash presentation and ones where the president of the company writes the research reports.
Having said that, I guess the oxidation and liver metabolism issues are something to keep in mind.
In any case, I wouldn't wait until I had the avian flu (H5N1) before taking these remedies. They seem to take days, if not weeks, to build up affect in some cases, and H5N1 can take you down in hours, by the worse case scenarios.
Here's where we have a -big- advantage over previous pandemics. Something like FreeRepublic.com can provide us better early warning, so we can start to take measures before it likely gets to us personally.
Why would they note in vivo if it was essentially impossible to get free resveratrol into the bloodstream?
Yes, we have started the regimen ahead of time also but the curcumin incident today left us a little dazed...
Without the details of this curcumin incident, it is difficult to know what level of risk it presented, even in this one case. Anecdotal evidence, even with the details, is difficult to base judgements on.
Even though very small amounts of free resveratrol are measured in the blood circulation and living tissues of humans following oral consumption of resveratrol
There are numerous quotes of the above sort on the Longevintex web site. When they talk about "very small amounts" they are talking about billionths of a gram. I would say the point they are making is it is "essentially impossible to get resveratrol into the blood" from oral administration. I don't know if it is true or not, in real-world conditions, but that is what they are saying.
All curcumin supplements do or should come with the blood thinning warning. Our incident just confirmed the well-known fact. It isn't exactly the first reported incident.
Just a minor <grin> difference ...
China reports two more bird flu outbreaks
Updated: 8:48 p.m. ET Nov. 28, 2005
BEIJING - China has confirmed two new bird flu outbreaks in poultry in the northwestern region of Xinjiang and in central Hunan province. (excerpt)
Corn, Soybeans May Fall on Concern Bird Flu Will Erode Feed Use
Nov. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Corn and soybean prices may fall in Chicago for a third straight week as a deadly bird virus in Asia and Europe threatens to reduce poultry production and demand for animal feed, a Bloomberg survey shows. (excerpt)
Interesting map posted by AlaskaDenise on this Current Events thread "New Russian Recombinant from Tula", post #2.
"Yunnan to Mongolia to Novosibirsk to Tula"
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