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To: ThePythonicCow
We need some lab or clinical trials on the usefulness of ordinary resveratrol supplements, not lab grade, nitrogen packed stuff

Good luck with that...I'm not sure, after the antioxidant exchange, if you're asking questions or if you have a broad knowledge base on supplements. I don't, as you must have guessed.

My guess is that resveratrol is less useful as a tnf-A or IL inhibitor than other supplements may be. For example, curcumin 95% standardized has been lab shown to have Cox inhibitor-like effects as far as inflammation is concerned, to have anti-inflammatory effects similar to the corticosteroids at some levels, and also to cause emptying of the gall bladder, so that people who have gall stones should probably not take it. Neither should pregnant or nursing women, because the effects at a high level on those populations aren't known. As far as toxicity, large doses apparently can be taken with no ill effects on the rest of the population who are not pregnant and have no gall stones.

But resveratrol, on the other hand, is found in high levels in, say, Pinot Noir wine, (or whatever wine) and rapidly degrades after the bottle is opened. In other words, (as you suggest) so far, it's unstable for practical use.

Let me go a little further and state that nobody here is prescribing. These are well-known substances that have had recent research showing that they MAY be helpful in case of various viral infection. No research has been done on any of them with H5N1 patients, to the best of my knowledge.

Some here have found what seems to possibly be helpful, through their own reading and use. I sincerely doubt that there is going to be a huge research effort anywhere in the world that is going to give us definitive answers on the use of supplements that possibly have antiviral action in an H5N1 pandemic.

What we are looking for is known supplements with antiviral action that are inexpensive and relatively easy to stock up for possible need. I bet very few care about the antioxidant levels, but I could be wrong.

And I DO apologize--I thought you were asking a question about antioxidants, and it's clear I was mistaken.

2,182 posted on 11/28/2005 9:54:52 AM PST by Judith Anne (Thank you St. Jude for favors granted.)
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To: Judith Anne
Heavens to mercy - no need to apologize. I DID ask a straightforward looking question about antioxidants. Unless you're some kind of mind reader, there was no way you could have guessed that I held some rather odd opinions on the subject.

Sorry I surprised you on that one. Take care and keep up the good work.

2,183 posted on 11/28/2005 11:57:11 AM PST by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: Judith Anne; ThePythonicCow; BearWash
Let me go a little further and state that nobody here is prescribing.

I couldn't agree more. None of us are physicians and the available literature is pretty sparse.

These are well-known substances that have had recent research showing that they MAY be helpful in case of various viral infection. No research has been done on any of them with H5N1 patients, to the best of my knowledge.

You are certainly correct: there is no direct, clinical tests with any of these substances. However, there is pretty good research in the open literature that makes a strong case. In particular, there are two sets of published results:

1. Studies that show that H5N1 produce a cytokine storm with at least 3 specific proteins: TNF-a, IP-10, and IL-6.
2. Studies that show, demonstrably and clinically, that these substances (with the exception of NAC and Sambucol) do reduce those specific cytokines.

However, I certainly acknowledge that there is a good deal of uncertainty with this. Which leads me to the clearly scientific conclusion:

I am going to shotgun this. These things are basically harmless in modest quantities. I will take them because they do no measureable harm. One or several of them may be helpful. Using several all at once is simple statistics: it improves the odds. Finally, since there are not too many other alternatives, this makes sense. I will of course pursue parallel strategies if necessary: isolation and Tamiflu prescription (if I can get it).

2,203 posted on 11/30/2005 7:18:50 PM PST by 2ndreconmarine (Horse feces (929 citations) vs ID (0 citations) and horse feces wins!!!!!)
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