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'Kingdom of Heaven' Truth in Limbo - (tour de force review!)
NEWSMAX.COM ^ | MAY 9, 2005 | JAMES HIRSEN

Posted on 05/09/2005 4:47:54 PM PDT by CHARLITE

These days it seems that whenever Hollywood meets history, history gets the squeeze.

Last year "King Arthur," "Troy" and "Alexander" were put through the revisionist wringer. Today it's the factually challenged movie "Kingdom of Heaven" whose historical content appears to have been schmushed.

"Kingdom of Heaven"'s director Ridley Scott recently took a cue from Cecil B. DeMille and chose the Crusades as the subject of his latest epic. This is the same fellow who brought us "Gladiator" and "Blade Runner," which makes me wonder: How did a talented filmmaker like Scott get stuck with an incoherent script like this? It's understandable that a film dealing with the ancient battles that took place between European Christians and followers of Islam might seek to make some modern-day comparisons. But is it really necessary to stuff the screen with the kind of pseudo-humanistic claptrap that could make a knight dump his armor on eBay?

As is typical of today's Tinseltown chronicling, fiction is fused with fact, much to the chagrin of the more informed filmgoer.

The movie takes place in 1184, sometime between the Second and Third Crusade. At the top of the film the audience is introduced to a young blacksmith named Balian (played by Orlando Bloom). Balian receives a visit from Godfrey of Ibelin (played by Liam Neeson), who claims to have fathered him and is seeking forgiveness for having done so illegitimately.

After a few conversations with Godfrey, Balian switches out of his horse-shoeing duds and opts for Crusader couture instead. In a Middle Age minute, the guy transforms himself into the most formidable knight in town. He also starts stealing a page from MoveOn.org and some guidance counseling tips from Dr. Phil.

While on his deathbed, Godfrey knights Balian and instructs him to pursue the vision of a "kingdom of heaven," where Christians, Muslims and Jews can peacefully party together. Balian eventually finds himself as a stand-in for the king of Jerusalem and in a position to surrender the city to the Muslim army. But this doesn't happen until he's killed a creepy priest, given up on organized religion, tossed his faith out the door and joined the ranks of the "can't we all just get along" crowd.

The film has a certain cinematic allure for some. If you like lots of head-splitting, side-piercing, gut-wrenching, limb-flying battling between foes, then this flick is for you. If you like a hefty dose of accuracy with your historically based entertainment, then it's not. In part, here's why.

The film depicts Muslim leader Saladin's conquest of Jerusalem, with his forces breaking through the wall of the city during the final battle. But the actual battle was outside the city in a place known as Hattin. That's why it's called the Battle of Hattin.

On another note, in order to provoke Saladin, the knights knock off his sister. The truth is she was held up but never snuffed out.

But to me, the real problem with the movie's authenticity is the way it interjects sappy messages into the story line. Exceedingly clear is who the heroes are, and likewise who the villains are. Saladin (who, in one scene, respectfully cradles a fallen cross) is portrayed as a wise, seasoned and noble leader.

In contrast, Guy de Lusignan, crony Sir Reynald, and the Knights Templar are shown as bloodthirsty, empty-headed warmongers. And as you might have predicted, the Christian clergy are cast as cowardly hypocrites who want to kill "infidels."

Many who see the "Kingdom of Heaven" may not realize that the Crusades were actually defensive in nature. Christians didn't act until the Muslims had conquered two-thirds of the Western World, and the Crusaders believed that they were restoring formerly Christian territories to their rightful status.

In the film the only Christian good guys are Balian, leper-King of Jerusalem Baldwin IV and his minister Tiberius. But unlike other Christians in the flick, these folks aren't motivated by religious faith. Instead they spout a form of modernist egalitarian drivel that sounds like it was written by Dennis Kucinich.

Balian makes a dramatic speech before the final battle where he tells the assembled throng that the Muslim army, which is about to attack and kill all of them, has just as much right to rule as its Christian counterpart does. Rather than a call to arms, Balian gives his troops a call to multiculturalism. If a real medieval commander had given such a speech, he'd have been chopped into tiny little pieces.

Which is probably what should have happened to that section of the footage, along with all the other PC portions.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: christendom; christians; crusades; director; european; infidels; jerusalem; jimhirsen; kingdomofheaven; knights; moviereview; muslims; ridleyscott; saladin
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Gotta love this line! "If a real medieval commander had given such a speech, he'd have been chopped into tiny little pieces."
1 posted on 05/09/2005 4:48:00 PM PDT by CHARLITE
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To: CHARLITE

good find!!


2 posted on 05/09/2005 4:49:22 PM PDT by dennisw (2 plain)
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To: CHARLITE

Now now...from just this review I can guess this is a film about tolerance and the validity of all ideas, not just those extreme western principals.


3 posted on 05/09/2005 4:52:50 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (We have the government we allow and deserve.)
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To: CHARLITE

Orlando Bloom practices some kind of trendy Buddhism, which kind of tells you all you need to know.


4 posted on 05/09/2005 4:57:37 PM PDT by ikka
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To: CHARLITE
I Slam Islam !!!
5 posted on 05/09/2005 5:00:33 PM PDT by GeekDejure ("That may be too late!" -- Laura)
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To: CHARLITE
I wonder when they're going to do a cinematic adaptation of one of Bat Ye'or's books. Maybe The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude would be good.
6 posted on 05/09/2005 5:04:06 PM PDT by MichiganConservative (Government IS the problem.)
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To: CHARLITE
"In a Middle Age minute, the guy transforms himself into the most formidable knight in town."

Well hells bells, if Tom Cruise can become an extraordinary Samurai, then Orlando Bloom can become an extraordinary Knight. God wills it!

7 posted on 05/09/2005 5:04:56 PM PDT by Enterprise (Abortion and "euthanasia" - the twin destroyers of the Democrat Party.)
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To: ikka

"Nichiren Shoshu" Buddhism


8 posted on 05/09/2005 5:05:51 PM PDT by dennisw (2 plain)
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To: CHARLITE
Just last night we were talking about this. A friend who is a History major said he can't watch these movies, because he ends up yelling at the screen. I told him I'm not a History major, but I know exactly what he means. The most recent one, 'Troy' was mentioned.

We agreed the actual history of any era one wants to discuss is so much more interesting than any Hollywoodized crap, why do they continue to do those things.

9 posted on 05/09/2005 5:06:45 PM PDT by real saxophonist (Jane Fonda might as well make her gravestone a urinal. Semper Fi)
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To: CHARLITE
Hi Char.

Can anyone who saw this movie tell me if this is an accuate portrayal? Would be much appreciated, since I don't "go to the movies"...I buy them for home entertainment.

TIA!

FMCDH(BITS)

10 posted on 05/09/2005 5:11:27 PM PDT by nothingnew (I fear for my Republic due to marxist influence in our government. Open eyes/see)
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To: CHARLITE

Anyone who thought this movie was going to be even remotely representative of history needs a massage.

In the meantime, I'm going to load up my DVD of "Lawrence of Arabia"...

11 posted on 05/09/2005 5:11:29 PM PDT by Fintan (Someday we'll look back on this moment and plow into a parked car.)
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To: CHARLITE

I was looking forward to this film.
Im glad I got a review before I wasted my money on it.
hollywood claptrap indeed :(


12 posted on 05/09/2005 5:13:38 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: CHARLITE
My 23-year-old son went to see it. He said it was historically confused and the story went nowhere after the first half. He's getting depressed about the abysmal talent putting out these "screedplays."

I told him he should try his hand at it.

He said "I don't have a history degree."

"All the better," I said.

13 posted on 05/09/2005 5:13:51 PM PDT by cookcounty ("We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts" ---Abe Lincoln, 1858.)
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To: Fintan

LOA is a classic maybe I rewatch my DVD as well L0L


14 posted on 05/09/2005 5:16:02 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: CHARLITE

Have to agree, this Scott film didn't even get close to being another "Gladiator". Everything that was real to being human, which a viewer could relate to in Gladiator, (the evil emperor,the burning desire for just revenge, the passions of the man with his losses and his triumphs, his role as adopted son,friend and leader, etc.)was lost in "Kingdom".

Pondering on it, I first thought the cause was a bad screenplay. At times it was so formula. And the words coming out of the actors' mouths, how lofty and sometimes highbrow..."A king does not kill another king." It was as if everyone wanted to believed what they were espousing, but there was no tension, no sense of fear, no rousing inner spirit to gives way to moving speeches, those whichh touch the human emotions of the other characters, there wasn't even any fanatical passion (on either warring side, Christian or Muslim) before, during or after their bloody battles.

Wish it had been a better film, I went to see it wanting to be inspired as I was at Scott and Crowe's collaboration of Gladiator.


15 posted on 05/09/2005 5:16:44 PM PDT by WmShirerAdmirer
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To: dennisw
"Nichiren Shoshu"

Is this a new take-out dish? Does it come with fortune cookies?

16 posted on 05/09/2005 5:17:42 PM PDT by CHARLITE (I have a fabulous harlequin Great Dane named "Lucy!" :))
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To: nothingnew
Hi there, nothingnew! Greetings to your lovely wife!

Char :)

17 posted on 05/09/2005 5:18:43 PM PDT by CHARLITE (I have a fabulous harlequin Great Dane named "Lucy!" :))
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To: mylife

Well I saw the movie this past saturday and I did like it. But then I do not go to movies to have them verify my world view.

The heros in the movie were courageous, the villians vile. The last stand by Baelin and his handful of knights at Jeruselem was inspiring.

As a historic document, the movie left a lot to be desired. As a sword and sandal flick, it was quite good. I was entertained, and that is what I spent my money for.


18 posted on 05/09/2005 5:21:14 PM PDT by speed_addiction (If you expect the worse out of everybody, you won't be disappointed___Frank Castle)
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To: speed_addiction

I sure hope it was better than Troy


19 posted on 05/09/2005 5:25:48 PM PDT by mylife (The roar of the masses could be farts)
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To: CHARLITE

Soka Gakkai, which literally means “Establishing Value Education Society”, was founded in Japan in 1930 as a fraternal auxiliary to Nichiren Shoshu, the largest sect of Nichiren Buddhism. One of the results of this outreach is that Soka Gakkai has been much more effective than any other group at attracting non-Asian minority converts, chiefly black and Latino, to Buddhism. It has also been successful in attracting the support of celebrities, such as Tina Turner, Herbie Hancock, and Orlando Bloom.


20 posted on 05/09/2005 5:26:32 PM PDT by dennisw (2 plain)
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To: WmShirerAdmirer
Nice review. I liked the scenery and action. The leprosy depiction was fascinating but suspicious considering Hollywood's penchant for making movies a substitute for real history.
21 posted on 05/09/2005 5:27:31 PM PDT by Helms (The Human Brain Is The Most Complex Matter Entity in the Known Universe and Seat of the Soul)
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To: cookcounty
Great minds... 8~)
22 posted on 05/09/2005 5:28:18 PM PDT by real saxophonist (Jane Fonda might as well make her gravestone a urinal. Semper Fi)
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To: Fintan
Good afternoon.

Does anyone go to the movies to see history? If so, why?

Kingdom of Heaven, like Troy and Arthur were created to be seen as entertainment not as documentaries. Whether or not they are seen to be entertaining is up to the viewer.

Even such well made historical films as Gettysburg and Band of Brothers are more entertainment than they are history. It's what a visual art like cinema is all about.

Michael Frazier
23 posted on 05/09/2005 5:30:14 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville

Then you wouldn't mind FDR depicted as a homosexual? (Why was he always smiling with that cigarette holder in his mouth?)


24 posted on 05/09/2005 5:54:48 PM PDT by wizr (Freedom ain't free.)
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To: CHARLITE

"Make the world a better place" Yep that's a line that appear in all history books about that time period.


25 posted on 05/09/2005 5:59:54 PM PDT by junta ("Racism" a word invented so as to allow morons access to the political debate.)
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To: CHARLITE
The movie was B-O-R-I-N-G.

Monotone plot, monotone characters, monotone love story.

And a really bad line "How do you get to Jerusalem? Go until you hear Italian spoken, then keep going until you hear something else spoken," was spoken not once, but TWICE!

26 posted on 05/09/2005 6:19:31 PM PDT by what's up
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To: speed_addiction

I concur. I did enjoy the film and ignored the preaching. As far as the Christian bashing goes it seems to me that in the end it's God and man one on one and in this none of us can hide.

Religion is intended to foster community, fellowship, and help us to control our baser natures. Religion also teaches us more about scripture and how it applies to our everyday lives. After this I guess it is about power and ego. After all, religions are made up of men.


27 posted on 05/09/2005 6:27:29 PM PDT by Nuc1 (NUC1 Sub pusher SSN 668)
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To: CHARLITE
Balian makes a dramatic speech before the final battle where he tells the assembled throng that the Muslim army, which is about to attack and kill all of them, has just as much right to rule as its Christian counterpart does. Rather than a call to arms, Balian gives his troops a call to multiculturalism.

One of the great joys of writing reviews apparently is writing clever reviews trashing a big blockbustter. But I think a lot of what this reviewer has to say is unfair. For instance, Balian does say in his "big speech" that the Muslims has just as much right to the city as the Christians ... but what he ultimately goes on to say to his followers is that they are not fighting for the stones of the city, however holy, but for the lives of their families who are living within the city, and that if the defenders fall, their families will die. Dunno about you, tovarisch, but that would motivate me!

I nearly did not go to see KOH after reading the wretched reviews, but finally did drag my husband to see it with me -- and both of us, picky viewers that we are, enjoyed it very much. We agreed it was miles better than "Alexander" but not as good as the final movie of LOTR. The cinematography was outstanding, as were the sets and the set dressing (though as for costumes, I was amused to note that Orlando looks very "seventies" in some of his dashiki shirts, or whatever they are -- very trendy fashionwise!). The opening sequence was particularly evocative, with lovely use of weather to set a mood.

We did not go to this movie to learn the history of the Crusades. I assumed it was only loosely based on history (if that), so finding out that it is not accurate is not a big problem for me. People who go to the movies to learn history probably thought "JFK" was factual too.

I did think that the Muslims were let off lightly, though I did not think that the Christians were unduly censored. A distinction was drawn between the Crusaders and the Knights Templar, with the KT vilified (rightly or wrongly, I don't know). And to say that the character of Balian is irreligious is just wrong, IMHO. He is drawn instead as someone who wants to believe, but has run up against some big stumbling blocks. (No one who is an arrogant atheist sits around all night on Golgotha freezing his butt for the sake of enlightenment!)

My biggest quibble was twofold: they showed Balian, the blacksmith, as being both literate and an excellent swordsman, without explaining either property. In that time period, the *village blacksmith* would have probably been a pretty burly guy, but not much of a swordsman (though he might have been handy with a pike or an axe). And it is improbable in the extreme that he would have been literate.

But ... Orlando Bloom is a fine young actor, and definite eye candy. I give KOH a thumbs-up.

28 posted on 05/09/2005 7:12:10 PM PDT by Hetty_Fauxvert (http://sonoma-moderate.blogspot.com/)
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To: Hetty_Fauxvert
We did not go to this movie to learn the history of the Crusades. I assumed it was only loosely based on history (if that), so finding out that it is not accurate is not a big problem for me.

What is the point in telling a story about an historical event if you don't try to get it right? Is it okay to lie about something as long as you do it on film?

29 posted on 05/09/2005 8:36:08 PM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: brazzaville
Kingdom of Heaven, like Troy and Arthur were created to be seen as entertainment not as documentaries.

Really. It sounds like this movie is political has hell.

When you make a movie about Muslims vs Christians you can choose to tell the truth or you can choose to give Islam a big wet sloppy kiss.

The coward. Mr Scott chose to do the latter because if he told the truth, he risked getting his head cut off

30 posted on 05/09/2005 8:52:13 PM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: wizr
Good morning.

FDR can be presented as a blue-arsed baboon as far as I care.

I saw sunrise at Campobello when I was a kid but I will never pay to see another film that is specifically about FDR.

Michael Frazier
31 posted on 05/10/2005 6:31:49 AM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: Dan Evans
Good morning.
"Really. It sounds like this movie is political has hell."

You haven't seen the movie, have you Dan? So you don't know what you're talking about when you slam Scott.

You might be right, since he is a liberal, for sure, but you really don't know because you haven't seen the movie.

That's too bad, the defense of Jerusalem part of the film is stirring. It's not historically accurate and much of it's not even plausible but it's still a great scene.

I wonder if you would have had a different take on it on 9/10/01. I wouldn't since it's just a motion picture to me.

Fahrenheit 911 is a movie I'll never watch, free or not, but is meant to harm us, not to entertain us.

Michael Frazier
32 posted on 05/10/2005 7:27:04 AM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville

Mornin' to you, too. I love history. And, I love movies that can add knowledge while entertaining us.

I learned a lot about truth and respect from the old B westerns, as a kid. You know, the good guys wear white hats and the bad guys wear black hats. Maybe, they weren't totally accurate, but they promoted ethics, to me. I still love westerns without bloodshed.

I will not go see a movie that promotes hate, visual bloodshed or what I feel is evil. That's my choice. I also won't go to movies that support Hollywood 'Rats.

I guess, going in, I felt that this movie would probably be critical of Christianity. So, I was interested in the review.

I'm rambling. Thanks for the reply.


33 posted on 05/10/2005 7:39:44 AM PDT by wizr (Freedom ain't free.)
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To: wizr
Rambling is one of my favorite pastimes, as you can see.

Kingdom of Heaven surely has enough bloodshed to keep you away if that bothers you.

Michael Frazier
34 posted on 05/10/2005 8:53:31 AM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville
You haven't seen the movie, have you Dan? So you don't know what you're talking about when you slam Scott.

LOL! Boy I knew that would be the first question that would come out.

But I know exactly what this movie is about because I've read enough reviews from the brave critics who suffered through it so we wouldn't have to. And I've wasted so much money on other politically correct crap just like it.

the defense of Jerusalem part of the film is stirring. It's not historically accurate and much of it's not even plausible but it's still a great scene

Why is it okay to lie about something as long as you do it on film?

I suppose if you are 14 years old, great action trumps everything else but I'm getting tired of politically correct propaganda masquerading as "entertainment". HollowWood has become just like TV, so boring.

Here are a few more opinions on Kingdom of Heaven:

"A historical epic totally destroyed by the infusion of contemporary political correctness and left-wing revisionist history." -- Chuck O'Leary, FANTASTICA DAILY

"The religious sentiment accumulates into a tower of politically correct Jell-O." -- Andrew Sarris, NEW YORK OBSERVER

"An epic about Christian crusaders who happen to be liberal humanists willing to die for the sake of religious tolerance. That's just ... weird." -- David Edelstein, SLATE

"This is the first time a been there, done that mood has permeated a Ridley Scott film." -- Brian Orndorf, FILMJERK.COM

"Bloom comes across as a vapid California surfer boy trying to be a serious "artist." This is an over-long, pretentious bore that I felt like I've seen and didn't like before." -- Michelle Alexandria, ECLIPSE MAGAZINE

"The movie does what any self-respecting politician would do: sidestep the issues, soft-pedal mortal costs, talk a fat game, and divert your attention away from history with exercises in spectacle and power." -- Michael Atkinson, VILLAGE VOICE

"A confused and confusing compromise at best and a dull obfuscation of history at worst." -- Peter Canavese, GROUCHO REVIEWS

"It's clear that Ridley Scott set out here to make as uncontroversial a film about the Crusades as it's possible to do. " -- Jill Cozzi, MIXED REVIEWS

"Yawn. Are the Crusades over yet? Wake me when it's time to leave." -- Boo Allen, DENTON RECORD CHRONICLE (TX)

"A staggeringly lazy, leg-twitchingly dull, unholy mess." -- Phoebe Flowers, SOUTH FLORIDA SUN-SENTINEL

"Could largely be synopsized as the failure of moderate Christians to restrain fanatical Christians from oppressing innocent Muslims, provoking justifiable Muslim retaliation." -- Steven D. Greydanus, DECENT FILMS GUIDE

"Kingdom of Heaven seems ready to anger everyone but the atheists and the action crowd." -- Daniel M. Kimmel, WORCESTER TELEGRAM & GAZETTE

"From watching the film, it s a bit hard to care who conquers." -- Dan Lybarger, EFILMCRITIC.COM

"Bloom s one dimensional effort and a laughably hackneyed script, waste Irons and Neeson in a tale of a religious war with a secular, anti-Christian bias." -- Tony Medley, TONYMEDLEY.COM

"The Crusades lasted just over 200 years, which is longer than Kingdom of Heaven, although not by as much as you might hope." -- Bruce Newman, SAN JOSE MERCURY NEWS

"The climax features a dandy battle, but getting to it requires sitting through nearly two hours of posturing and pontificating." -- Jeff Strickler, MINNEAPOLIS STAR TRIBUNE

"...an unmitigated disaster from start to finish, offering up a level of sheer dullness that's shocking..." -- David Nusair, REEL FILM REVIEWS

35 posted on 05/10/2005 9:31:30 AM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: CHARLITE
If a real medieval commander had given such a speech, he'd have been chopped into tiny little pieces.

I might have actually went to the movie if that happened.

36 posted on 05/10/2005 9:35:13 AM PDT by Brett66 (W1 W1 W1 W1 W1 W1 W1 W1)
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To: Dan Evans
Good morning.

That's a fine lot of critics you have there, friend.

Michael Frazier
37 posted on 05/10/2005 10:02:26 AM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville
That's a fine lot of critics you have there, friend.

And there's a lot more where that came from: Rotten Tomatoes

59% of the critics who saw Kingdom of Heaven gave it a thumbs down.

38 posted on 05/10/2005 10:17:10 AM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: Dan Evans
As I remember it the critics universally panned Red Dawn but I loved it. I guess I'm just not hip.

What's that old saying about critics? I think it goes something like those who can create those who can't critique. In my case I don't create so I pay to watch what someone else created.

This has been fun but I've got take my grandson to the dentist.

Later,

Michael Frazier
39 posted on 05/10/2005 10:54:37 AM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville
As I remember it the critics universally panned Red Dawn but I loved it. I guess I'm just not hip.

That's right. Critics are generally to the left of the rest of the population and Red Dawn was not. So if the critics think something is too politically correct you know it must be pretty bad. Also, the more movies you see, the more you tend to become aware of the political agenda of the writers and directors.

And yeah, critics can't make movies but so what? It doesn't take a lot of brains to see a movie and tell us what it was about.

40 posted on 05/10/2005 11:06:42 AM PDT by Dan Evans
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To: Dan Evans

Or to not see it and tell us what it is about. You'll just have to take my word about that.

Michael Frazier


41 posted on 05/10/2005 1:52:32 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: brazzaville; Dan Evans
Good afternoon.

I think I may have misunderstood the last sentence of your post. If so, sorry.

Michael Frazier
42 posted on 05/10/2005 2:39:38 PM PDT by brazzaville (No surrender,no retreat. Well, maybe retreat's ok)
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To: CHARLITE
Many who see the "Kingdom of Heaven" may not realize that the Crusades were actually defensive in nature. Christians didn't act until the Muslims had conquered two-thirds of the Western World, and the Crusaders believed that they were restoring formerly Christian territories to their rightful status.

Bingo! Thank you.

APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE!


43 posted on 05/10/2005 2:49:18 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: ikka; redgolum; Aquinasfan; NYer; ELS
Orlando Bloom practices some kind of trendy Buddhism, which kind of tells you all you need to know. 4 posted on 05/09/2005 7:57:37 PM EDT by ikka

The organizations and cabals that promote the defamations of Christians and Western Christian culture should be held accountable and exposed for their deranged agenda. This knee-jerk anti-Christian jihad of theirs has become rather ridiculous.

44 posted on 05/10/2005 2:52:35 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity; EagleUSA; Nam Vet; jan in Colorado; WarPaint; CBart95; ...
"Christians didn't act until the Muslims had conquered two-thirds of the Western World, and the Crusaders believed that they were restoring formerly Christian territories to their rightful status.

This time, they have managed to pollute "formerly Christian territories" throughout western Europe. Who are the "new Crusaders" going to be? Uncle Sam-ites? Who ELSE is going to save Europe (and western civilization) from these Muslim hordes? - Mexico?

45 posted on 05/10/2005 8:05:27 PM PDT by CHARLITE (If Hill wins in '08, I'm moving into the White House also.......I'll say it's my new entitlement...)
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To: CHARLITE

The cabals promoting anti-Christian silliness, moral relativism, secular humanism, liberalism, and cultural relativism, have brough this on. Along with the idiotic Malthusian population control freaks and modern social engineering gurus. They have gutted Western culture. And they let the barbarians through the gates. It's a sad, stupid, silly, old story. Now liberals and secular humanists will need to ask conservative Christians to bail them out once again from another social disaster. God knows, it won't be the socialist pansies or liberal disarmanent freaks that will defend Europe and America from Islamo-fascist terror.


46 posted on 05/10/2005 8:25:48 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
"God knows, it won't be the socialist pansies or liberal disarmanent freaks that will defend Europe and America from Islamo-fascist terror."

....and it won't be Vicente Fox, either.

Thanks so much for a great, well reasoned comment. It is exactly correct in all respects. How can so many millions of people, here and in western Europe, follow so blindly after such liberal socialist fools?

47 posted on 05/10/2005 9:26:26 PM PDT by CHARLITE (If Hill wins in '08, I'm moving into the White House also.......I'll say it's my new entitlement...)
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To: CHARLITE
Secular humanist liberals have exploited sexual insecurities and anxieties to try to make people think that self-control and normal family life are impossible or undesirable (for whatever reason). To the unhappiness and misery of those hoodwinked into following this path of folly. The goal seems to be to fixate people in an adolescent stage of development and manipulate these anxieties and insecurities into a hostility toward parental authority figures (which includes the church, Christianity, and morality). It's the ideology of perverts.

Using this ploy to pursue pleasure with abandon, socialism is then imposed by the oligarchical cultural elite who harbor resentment and hatred towards Christianity for a variety of bizarre, petty, and semi-psychotic reasons. enough, apparently, to make them romanticize Muslims. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew.

48 posted on 05/10/2005 9:44:23 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
From today's Federalist Patriot:

"If you will think about what you ought to do for other people, your character will take care of itself. Character is a by-product, and any man who devotes himself to its cultivation in his own case will become a selfish prig." --Woodrow Wilson

"No man or woman of any faith or of no faith can truly love, truly serve, truly persevere, truly dare mighty deeds, truly hope for the future or truly honor the past, without a humble heart. So it is for humility, then, that, on behalf of the legislative branch -- both houses, both parties -- I ask for your prayers today. Because the only way we can serve well is to serve humbly, as servants both to God and our nation." --House Majority Leader Tom DeLay

49 posted on 05/10/2005 10:23:36 PM PDT by CHARLITE (If Hill wins in '08, I'm moving into the White House also.......I'll say it's my new entitlement...)
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To: CHARLITE
Many who see the "Kingdom of Heaven" may not realize that the Crusades were actually defensive in nature. Christians didn't act until the Muslims had conquered two-thirds of the Western World, and the Crusaders believed that they were restoring formerly Christian territories to their rightful status.

I don't remember learning that in gov't school. I remember learning that the Christians were bad though.

50 posted on 05/11/2005 4:57:43 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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