Posted on 05/11/2005 4:47:45 AM PDT by Crackingham
A Baptist pastor accused of threatening to banish from his church anyone who didn't vote for President Bush has himself chosen to depart, leaving in his wake a divided community and a cultural chasm. The Rev. Chan Chandler, 33, walked out of the church he had led for three years Tuesday night after delivering a brief statement of resignation. With him went many of the young congregants he had attracted to the modest brick church on the outskirts of this small mountain town in western North Carolina.
In leaving, Chandler did not apologize for the controversy that made him a national lightning rod — the claims by some church members that they were told to leave if they voted for Democratic nominee John Kerry.
"For me to remain now would only cause more hurt for me and my family," Chandler said. "I am resigning with gratitude in my heart for all of you, particularly those of you who love me and my family."
The dispute that engulfed East Waynesville Baptist Church in recent months would have sounded familiar to many an American congregation: Aging congregation brings in dynamic young preacher to turn things around. New pastor attracts young members who push for change in traditional ways of doing things. Battle ensues.
As Chandler and his wife drove out of the church's parking lot followed by a police escort, about 40 of his supporters walked out as well, with many saying they were resigning their memberships.
"I'm not going to serve with the ungodly," an angry Misty Turner declared.
But Maxine Osborne, 70, and among those who stayed behind, had a different view of what had transpired.
"A lot of these young people had not been in the church more than a year," she said. The Chandlers "brought in a lot of young people, but they also brainwashed them."
Unnngh, y'all.
Alot of people need their "brains washed", particularly the older "gimmee" types that crave socialism.
This minister stood up for what he believed in. He should be applauded instead of being sent out of town by a small group of whiners who didn't agree with him. The little community in NC will go back to obscurity but will suffer for their intolerance.
The preacher can explicitly endorse any candidate for politcal office that he wants from the pulpit, as long as he gives up his church's tax exempt status.
That is a very insightful paragraph.
Unfortunately, churches full of elderly yellow-dog demoncRATs will be more than happy to see their doors close than to engage the morally-decayed culture around them with the Truth of the Gospel.
It's all about creating issues to divide the congregation especially aimed toward unbelievers in the church, or more exact those that do not make Jesus, Lord.
My goodness if Paul's teachings along with the first chapter of Revelation don't make the church aware of these issues, nothing will.
..and yes, I believe it's that simple.
Please if this was reversed the Media would praise the Minister for standing up on principle by banishing evil Republicans. This guy was attempting to teach his flock not to be hypocrates!
Good for you.
My brother in-law left his baptist church because the pastor, in a prayer thanked God that Bush won. My inlaw said he didn't believe God works in this way and the pastor had no right to bring politics into the church. I sarcastically called him a communist
Hmmm!I wonder when one of a hundred pastors will resign for telling people not to vote for Bush or leave the church.
I stand by the pastor and this is why!
Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no. There is no way a Christian can buy into neo-liberal ideology and be faithful to the bigger-than-Dallas teachings of the scripture and expect to continue enjoying his hard-won religious liberties.
For the "Christian" to lean politically to the left means that he must blow off huge chunks of the Bible and replace the scripture with the make-believe notions of postmodernism's malleable "Christ." Only after torturing the scripture can the Christian then fit liberalism into his supposed relationship with God.
For the Christian who believes that unfeigned faith in Christ should correspond with Jesus' high view of scripture, it is… now… impossible to believe in God and be an adherent to postmodern liberalism. The twain no longer meet. Liberalism has been hijacked by bizarre special-interest thugs who spit on the Word of God and believe that the Bible has no place in public life, (except maybe in a museum where people can look at it from time to time).
The Christian who has a bent to the liberal left needs to understand something: while he is skipping around the maypole with his rose-colored glasses on, if it were up to the modern, secularized liberal establishment, he would be more restricted than Bill when Hillary's in town. Yes, if the Christophobic thugs had it their way, Christians would be relegated to a marginalized spiritual ghetto on the sidelines of life.
For the naïve Christian voter who thinks he can toss a ballot in the Nuevo liberal direction, please know that a vote toward the secular left could leave you bereft of sacred liberties. Thanks to the aggressive ludicrous liberal lug nuts' anti-Christian agenda, your vote for a liberal, Christian, is a vote for …
1. Christianity to be scrubbed from government and whatever turf the government owns. Thanks to the liberals, the Ten Commandments have about as much acceptance in our government and their properties as Rush Limbaugh would at Al Franken's family reunion. Yes, the Judeo-Christian principles that formed the rock-solid foundation of this great American Experiment are now aggressively fought against by the lascivious left.
If… if… the secularists continue to stay behind the wheel of this American bus, you can kiss all semblance of Christianity good-bye in this heretofore God-graced government. Saint, you might as well say farewell to our government's recognizing Christmas and adios to Good Friday if you're going to vote the liberal ticket. If the secularists have it their way, Easter will be behind your keister, and you can kiss the Cross good-night as an acceptable public symbol that represents your faith and our nation's recognition of Christ's atoning work.
2. Secularism to be continually mainlined into our public school system. Thanks to rabid vapid secularism, our public schools and universities would rather you be a Rocky Horror super freak than a Christian. If your beliefs run to the bizarre or the banal, or if you want to smoke the same philosophical crack that Caligula, Nero, Castro or Lenin freebased, they'll accommodate you.
Our schools are totally open to anyone and to anything, unless, of course, you're a Christian. And if that's the case, then you're likely to get more sympathy from a badger with minimal sleep than you will from liberal educators who are hard at work making your life hard. A vote for the secular left is a vote for Christianity to continue to be officially vilified on campus and Christians to be ostracized in campus life.
3. Public officials, employees and appointees to be pressured to hide their faith in the closet and suppress their public displays of belief in God lest they be grouped with Hitler, Osama, or Mussolini and then fired. Not only will the liberals aggressively work to prohibit the State from green lighting and recognizing Christianity as a legitimate and positive force in our land, they will also attempt to stifle Christians from influencing the path of government.
4. Public attacks on churches and Christians and attempts to restrict them in the private sector. Consider this, Christian pastor and Christian lay person looking to vote for the ludicrous left: the secular Mafioso's intent is to make your ministerial life difficult, your evangelistic work taxing and your voice minimized. And good luck, pastor and church committee, in trying to buy property and get zoning with the anti-Christian libs at the helm.
5. The continued media endorsement of the same putrid hedonistic stuff that sunk ancient Rome. Yes, with the liberals in place, expect more weird crap in movies and on television. Expect to see more paintings of Christian symbols/ saints smeared with elephant dung. Expect Christianity to be bashed and vilified and Christians made out to be buckled-shoed morons with three teeth and an IQ of 50. Expect the culture to coarsen. Expect your kids to continue to be exposed to things that only rock stars see backstage with groupies. A vote for a liberal is a vote to see Christians continue to receive special ridicule and be flogged more than a piñata during a Cinco de Mayo festival.
My clashpoint is this: Modern liberalism tosses the scripture out on several different levels. How a true believer in the Christ defined by the scripture can buy into what Jesus, the prophets and apostles said and also what these secular thugs say is beyond me.
In addition to liberalism's obvious and odious pro-holocaust-like abortion stance, its anti-biblical view of marriage, its scripture-slamming aggressive secularism, and its feckless view of our nation's defense, liberalism completely clashes with the Christian worldview. Secular liberalism's aggressive desire to eradicate Christians' rights should cause Christians to be concerned.
The Democratic Party's liberalism has degenerated over the last 40-50 years in regard to its view of Christianity and Christian rights. This party, which formerly embraced and protected our nation's great Christian heritage and teachings, no longer does so.
Thus, today the Christian is between a rock and a hard place: he can either be a Christian or a liberal, but he cannot be both.
He sure cut out on what he believed in once he felt a little fire. He doesn't seem to have the backbone to stand up for what he believes. Not a leader obviously.
Agreed
I believe that pastor was out of line, and should as well resign.
Unless you happen to actually be Doug Giles, you might want to consider properly attributing your post to the person who wrote it.
And the MSM claims another church.
Maybe we should have a separation of Church and Media.
More seriously, this is probabl what should happen one way or another. It isn't good for a church to have too much diversity of opinion. Better to split, so that each group can worship God, rather than focusing on each other.
I'm a strong supporter of people of faith LIVING their faith, which means including it in their decisions regarding the people who lead us. But church itself should, in my opinion, be focused on our relationship with God, not on fighting each other.
I haven't been a part of a solid church that hasn't had to divide. The only ones that seem stable are ones where they don't actually have a firm set of beliefs, so they attract those who want the "experience" rather than the religion.
"He sure cut out on what he believed in once he felt a little fire. He doesn't seem to have the backbone to stand up for what he believes. Not a leader obviously."
I read somewhere (can't remember exactly where, sorry) that this whole kerfuffle had prompted an IRS inquiry into his church's tax-exempt status. That may have prompted the resignation more than anything else.
You've made some excellent points. I'm going to refer to your post the next time I get into it with someone who claims they can be both Christian and liberal.
"For the "Christian" to lean politically to the left means that he must blow off huge chunks of the Bible..." says it all.
"...can endorse any candidate for politcal office that he wants from the pulpit, as long as he gives up his church's tax exempt status."
Except when he endorses the Democratic party.
Thank you. Well put.
You are not a Southern Baptist, are you? 'Cause if you are you would know this is the norm. Most SB pastors(I forgot the exact percentages) stay an average of only 2 years at any one church before moving on, usually by popular request of their congregation or an offer from a larger church(a job promotion, as it were).
A proper reading of law would suggest that a preacher should be allowed to preach the word of God as he sees it, no matter WHAT that word is.
Tax-Exempt status should only be threatened if the church uses its funds to support a candidate. For example, if a church invites a candidate in on Sunday to preach about his policies. Of course, I only know of Democrats that do that. This would be a violation of tax-exempt status because the politician didn't have to rent the room, so the room's rent is a donation.
Those who hate religion have mis-interpreted tax law to suggest that tax-exempt status is threatened by a preacher preaching the word of God. If that were true, the government would effectively be establishing what religion could and could not be about.
If you say "but we are simply removing tax-exempt status", if you remove it from some churches, but not others, on the basis of their specific beliefs and practices, you are in fact establishing some religions over others.
The purpose of the tax-exempt status could be debated separately, although it is also based on the idea that the state cannot in any way interfere with religion, including taxing them. But tax-exempt status should be for all religion or for none.
When Bob Jones university lost it's tax-exempt status because their religion beleived that "inter-racial" dating was wrong, the government was making a judgment about which religious beliefs were tolerable, and which weren't. It was a purely political decision, and in violation of the 1st amendment.
But so far as churches themselves go, NO church has ever had to pay taxes because of what they preached in the pulpit. There was ONE case where an IRS court pulled their "letter" of tax-exemption. But a real court ruled that churches don't NEED a letter, they are tax-exempt under the constitution.
So while many churches won't take the chance because the letter protects them, it may not be necessary.
Outstanding! thank you
I bet old Maxine watches CBS news, and has for a loooong time. Talk about being brainwashed...
That is such crappola it's not even funny! Of course a Christian can be a liberal, is your Christianity based on your political affiliation? Scripture dictates no such command!
Now, it is feasible to change and become more mature in Christ which would lead to a more conservative view, but to claim a party or political philosophy dictates one religious beliefs is preposterous, especially when it comes to salvation.
A Christian can be wrong about political issues would be a much more accurate statement, wouldn't you think?
I appreciate your lucid proffer, yet- the Episcopalian's have coveted a gay rights stance by proxy. Is that a status of taxable interest or does this only apply to bibilical law adherents? My comments are in reference to to your Bob Jones statement.
Doug Giles Wrote my previous post
I think you're framing that backwards. The question is: Is your political affiliation based on your Christianity? Can you support a party supporting abortion, fornication, homosexuality, etc.? How?
I lived in Grand Prairie, TX (terminally dry part of Dallas County) for a few years while attending UT Arlington. My then-wife wanted to visit a Baptist church in the area, and it happened to be when a liquor-by-the-drink petition was going around.
The pastor was in a complete dither about the petition and raged about it for over an hour, and threatened to go over that petition and "just see who signed it." I finally had to get up and leave, waiting in the car for my wife to come out.
She was terribly pi$$ed at me for walking out, but the funniest thing was when that same preacher came by my house a couple of years later, wanting us to visit his church. I was so happy to tell him why I wouldn't set foot in his church again if he paid me. He finally left when I got up to get a beer and courteously offered him one.
No.
No Change, No Salvation, No Salvation,No Christ,No Christ,No Christian!
See my Tagline!
The guy is a moron.
His church would welcome sinners, but not democrats?
How do promotion Homosexuality and Abortion square up with Christianity?
His sentiments are right on!
Looks like this may be a case where a young pastor brought in lots of new believers and the 70 year old Osborne's who had been in this church forever were threatened. Church is in the North Carolina mountians, not known as a bastion of change.
He perhaps instituted more contemporary music instead of traditional hymns.
I doubt we ever know what really happened, because church fights are usually very complex and involve issues that were present long before Chandler got there three years ago.
Exactly.
I am in total agreement with the pastor's views (I had "Kerry kills babies" signs in my yard), but he moved from spiritual leader to spiritual dictator when he threatened expulsion to members of his flock.
It seems inconsistent to me to go to war over dictatorial Muslim clerics and at the same time defend this chap.
There is no party of Christ. Political parties are made up of nothing but sinners. Both the Republicans and the Democrats have backed tons of things which are sinful in the eyes of God.
Damn right. No good christian can promote homosexuality, bestiality, abortion, murder of disabled, etc, etc.
Get right or get out, that pastor should have said.
IMO, that goes too far.
Agreed there is no Party of Christ. But the party that doesn't consisntantly promote homosexuality or abortion is the one that a Christian has to vote with.
The wide road is easy the narrow road is hard.
Church gathers sinners, yet you seem offended or shocked by that notion.
And you can put a great deal of credibility in a writeup by an AP correspondent or any other MSM reporter when they are covering issues related to church polity because journalists in general have such a thorough understanding of churches. < /sarcasm >
But it's perfectly okay, even condoned, for the black churches, right? When was the last time one of them was investigated by the IRS? Not politically correct so it will never happen.
Translation: there is no party of Christ, but really there is.
I was not aware that there were so many sinner-free churches around.
You have made a religion out of your politics, my FReeper compatriot.
Well except for a few (and fewer by the day) social issues and being more hawkish on war, Republicans aren't that much different than Democrats anymore. So by your argument Christians shouldn't vote for Republicans either. Thanks for clearing that up.
Right on!
In fact Jesus was quite explicit in his separation of worship and politics.
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