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Pickup driver killed in first fatality involving MetroRail
Houstonchronicle ^ | May 11, 2005, 1:43AM | Mike Glen

Posted on 05/11/2005 7:17:41 AM PDT by weegee

A pickup driver was killed in downtown Houston late Tuesday when his vehicle was broadsided by a Metro light rail train, the first fatality on the rail line since it opened to the public in January 2004.

The accident happened shortly before 10:30 p.m. on southbound Main at Jefferson. The driver, who was killed on impact, was believed to be a man in his 30s. He was the only person in the Dodge pickup truck, police said.

Veda Flores was following the pickup truck when she said the driver drove through a red light and into the path of the oncoming train.

"We stopped at the light but he kept going," she said. "It was just like slow motion."

Visibly shaken after witnessing the fatal accident, Flores said it was clear the driver was at fault.

"There was no way the train could stop," she said. "He (the train operator) didn't have time."

The front of the train ripped through the driver's side door and pushed the pickup about 50 feet along the tracks.

"The impact is right on the driver's door, which is kind of a weak part of the vehicle," said Sgt. G.T. Hall, with the Houston Police Department accident division.

The pickup truck came to a rest against the Downtown Transit Center stop at Main and Jefferson.

Police said four passengers on the train were taken to area hospitals with minor injuries. Eight other riders were not injured.

Accident investigators confirmed that the train operator — who wasn't injured — likely would not be found at fault because the victim ran a red light and may have been speeding.

" We're very confident that the fault lies with the deceased," Sgt. Hall said.

Transit agency technicians were at the scene to remove a recording device — similiar to a black box in an airliner — which investigators hope may offer clues in the investigation, such as the speed of the train at the time.

Metro officials said they also would be conducting an investigation into Tuesday's fatal accident.

"We're going to have to take a hard look at it and see if there's anything at all we can do to improve safety," said Metro spokesman George Smalley.

Since MetroRail began taking passengers it has been involved in more than 74 accidents, including at least four in which pedestrians were struck by trains.

The 7.5-mile rail line holds the record for the number of accidents in a year among light rail systems in the United States — 63, set during its first year of operation.

The Metropolitan Transit Authority and police have blamed all but one of the accidents on pedestrians getting too close to the tracks and motorists attempting illegal turns across the tracks or running red lights.

Critics blame the record number of accidents on the system's at-grade rail design, with some nicknaming the $324 million MetroRail "The Danger Train." Questions also have been raised about confusing signage and traffic lights along the rail line. Additionally, MetroRail tracks share the left-turn lanes with motorists in the Texas Medical Center area.

In the first quarter of this year, Metro reported 13 rail-automobile collisions, half the number during the first quarter of 2004.

Metro considers an incident a reportable accident if it results in at least one injury or property damage in excess of $1,000.

The rail line carries about 32,000 riders a day as it runs from the University of Houston-Downtown to just south of the Loop 610, and back.

The train has a top speed of 40 mph, but an average speed of 15.5 mph, according to Metro.

Metro officials expect to resume full operation of the light rail by rush hour today.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: boondoggle; deathtrain; failrail; federaltaxes; houston; houstonchronicle; houstonmetro; lightrail; metro; metrorail; quagmire; rail; smartgrowth; taxdollarsatwork; transportation; whambamtram; youpayforthis
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1 posted on 05/11/2005 7:17:42 AM PDT by weegee
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To: weegee

Let me guess... the train was named "Darwin"?


2 posted on 05/11/2005 7:19:08 AM PDT by thoughtomator ("One cannot say that a law is right simply because it is a law.")
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To: weegee

I guess the light at the end of his tunnel really was a train.


3 posted on 05/11/2005 7:20:16 AM PDT by MrNeutron1962
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To: 1riot1ranger; Action-America; Aggie Mama; Alkhin; Allegra; American72; antivenom; Antoninus II; ...
HOUSTON PING

For what it's worth, two or three weeks ago I was at Main (and maybe Elgin) and I had the green light (something failed and the light didn't go red). Metrorail ran the light (because basically, it is illegal to hit the Chronicle/Mayor Brown's train). I didn't get hit (I was approaching the light when I observed this) but there are problems in the system.

Problems that an elevated rail never would have had.

4 posted on 05/11/2005 7:21:45 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: weegee
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
5 posted on 05/11/2005 7:22:17 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, who's bringing the chips?)
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To: weegee
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
6 posted on 05/11/2005 7:23:02 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, who's bringing the chips?)
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To: TXBSAFH; Admin Moderator

Sorry about the double post. Could you please help out htere thanks.


7 posted on 05/11/2005 7:24:17 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, who's bringing the chips?)
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To: TXBSAFH

weird thing about that photo is that it looks like there are people actually about to USE the train. What is the ridership level of this system?


8 posted on 05/11/2005 7:27:35 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: weegee; Willie Green

hmm, isn't Willie Green moving to Texas....


9 posted on 05/11/2005 7:28:20 AM PDT by Incorrigible (If I lead, follow me; If I pause, push me; If I retreat, kill me.)
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To: babble-on

This waste cost more then $400 million dollars, ridership is falling. To be blunt they could have bought every rider of this a new Jeep Libery sport and still have saved money.


10 posted on 05/11/2005 7:29:14 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, who's bringing the chips?)
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To: weegee

Traffic engineers spent decades separating different modes of transportation to reduce fatalities. Now we have the train fanatics grabbing money from the Feds and promoting light rail in every city in the country as a way to reduce congestion if you don't mind taking a lot longer to get from point A to point B.

Current estimates for the real price of a light rail ride is from $15 to $20 or so a ticket. It carries a miniscule amount of rush hour traffic, and the trains themselves have far less capacity than a freeway lane. Light rail also has a higher per fatality rate per passenger mile than any other form of transit. Mixed mode transport is deadly. You'd save a lot and get better, more flexible transit, by spending the money on express buses that pick up and drop off in various parts ot the city.

But, as with all leftist projects, it's the idea, not the outcome. Besides, all of these deaths are someone else's fault.



11 posted on 05/11/2005 7:33:14 AM PDT by cosine
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To: weegee

Is that sign on the station in Spanish?

I hope it isn't.


12 posted on 05/11/2005 7:35:10 AM PDT by wk4bush2004
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To: weegee
And, in this day and age, you would build an urban rail system from scratch at the cost of a billion dollars that intersected surface vehicle traffic because...???

Makes no sense to me. Put it in a tunnel or elevate it, but you are not alleviating congestion when you build it to compete with surface traffic that is already gridlocked enough on its own.

13 posted on 05/11/2005 7:36:56 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Controlled substance laws created the federal health care monopoly and fund terrorism.)
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To: weegee

They're building essential a clone in Phoenix.

Many of us fought the ballot initiative hard, but lost.

It will traverse my neighborhood.

Oh joy.


14 posted on 05/11/2005 7:37:44 AM PDT by adam_az ({GOP Senator's Brains} <-- This space for rent.)
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To: weegee

And to say this is the first fatality! Check out the Wham-Bam-Tram numbers on the Action America Houston page http://www.actionamerica.org/houston/index.shtml


15 posted on 05/11/2005 7:38:22 AM PDT by cosine
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Can't put it underground in Houston. It would flood. Hell this one is surface level and floods (where it cannot be run) in 3 inches of rain.

Houston probably has the own Main Street in a major city that is only one lane in each direction.

This passed as did all of the other major ballot initiatives with the bare minimum of support (like 1 or 2 percent).

The Comical was a sponsor of this (for their downtown and construction business buddies). Tom Delay fought against federal funding for this project and has been on their "enemies" list ever since.


16 posted on 05/11/2005 7:43:24 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

It would probably reduce traffic if people used it, but retrofitting a commuter rail system onto a city which has developed on an automobile model is not going to be easy.

In my heart, I think it would be great for there to be safe fast comfortable mass transit, but where I live (Nashville) the population density in the suburbs is too low to suddenly think we could switch back to a trolley system. Maybe it would have been smart not to have ripped out the tracks way back when, but its about 60 years too late to undue that decision.


17 posted on 05/11/2005 7:44:32 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: weegee
Can't put it underground in Houston.

Then elevating it would be the logical thing to do, eh?

18 posted on 05/11/2005 7:44:56 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Controlled substance laws created the federal health care monopoly and fund terrorism.)
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To: TXBSAFH

From the story:

Veda Flores was following the pickup truck when she said the driver drove through a red light and into the path of the oncoming train.

Seems pretty silly to blame the train for penalizing the dead guy's own stupidity...

19 posted on 05/11/2005 7:51:11 AM PDT by Kretek
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To: weegee

I cross over those tracks everyday and you can't hear the whistle when its coming. This is one place where if you run a red light you have a good chance of being killed.


20 posted on 05/11/2005 7:51:26 AM PDT by Waterleak (I pity the fool)
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To: babble-on
It would probably reduce traffic if people used it, but retrofitting a commuter rail system onto a city which has developed on an automobile model is not going to be easy.

Having lived in Houston for ten years, I can say that a commuter rail from someplace to someplace (like from Katy to downtown, for instance) would have alleviated a lot of congestion on I-10.

The fact that it was built from the Astrodome to The Field Formerly Known as Enron to service Drayton McClane's business ventures is criminal.

21 posted on 05/11/2005 7:53:42 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Controlled substance laws created the federal health care monopoly and fund terrorism.)
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To: babble-on

Funny thing is in Houston they dug down to put in the new road and rail line for this thing, and construction was slowed because they hit the trolley rail from 100 years ago. The city fathers then figured out rail was not a good idea in Houston. But liberals are slowly creeping into the game now, and creating a complete mess of the roads etc.


22 posted on 05/11/2005 7:56:15 AM PDT by Waterleak (I pity the fool)
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To: Kretek

The trains in Houston travel atround 30 mph ("The train has a top speed of 40 mph, but an average speed of 15.5 mph, according to Metro") and make no effort to stop outside of the loading stations. The law makes it clear that people are not to collide with Metro's train.

If you read another quote, she says "There was no way the train could stop," she said. "He (the train operator) didn't have time."

I've seen car drivers who choose to hit their horn instead of the breaks. Same result. Slow down and accidents can be avoided.

The lights traditionally (but don't always) turn red in all four directions when the train approaches the interesection. If a driver is approaching a green light and it turns red quickly, some will speed up instead of stopping. If they believe that the rail will also stop before proceeding through the interesection (obeying "their" light), then they may think it is safe. Metrorail does not stop for any red light.

Police and other emergency vehicles stop before they run red lights in this town.

Bus drivers have to stop and listen for REAL trains any time they cross traintracks. There is no reason that Metrorail couldn't approach each interesection from a stop before proceeding.


23 posted on 05/11/2005 7:58:03 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: weegee
Since MetroRail began taking passengers it has been involved in more than 74 accidents, including at least four in which pedestrians were struck by trains.

Isn't the Federal Transportation and Safety Board suppose to protect tax-paying citizens from this TERROR TRAIN?

24 posted on 05/11/2005 7:59:16 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Waterleak

To hear the left tell it, cities got rid of rail because of evil auto manufacturers bribing city officials.

The buggy whip manufacturers are still upset too ;P


25 posted on 05/11/2005 8:00:17 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Sure but elevating rail costs more money- the state government can't provide and some of our own representatives actively work in congress to kill any funding for mass transit in Houston- this was the only option left.
Also it goes through the medical center where I work- there are skybridges there connecting the buildings- with an elevated system those skybridges would have had to been torn down shifted up a few stories or just eliminated altogether.


26 posted on 05/11/2005 8:19:00 AM PDT by NYorkerInHouston
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To: NYorkerInHouston
Sure but elevating rail costs more money- the state government can't provide and some of our own representatives actively work in congress to kill any funding for mass transit in Houston- this was the only option left. Tom DeLay opposed it because it solves NOTHING.

Can you explain to me the logic of building it from the Astrodome to The Field Formerly Known As Enron, other than as a personal favor to Drayton McClain, who already owns half of Houston?

By Metro's own calculations, only a few dozen people can actually use it to commute.

If it had been built from Katy to downtown, tens of thousands of people could and would have used it.

Metro is nothing but affirmative action for minority crooks.

27 posted on 05/11/2005 8:25:41 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Controlled substance laws created the federal health care monopoly and fund terrorism.)
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To: weegee

Sooner or later there will be a lawsuit against MetroRail and the city about the safety of rail, and they will lose.

What this individual did in this unfortunate case was wrong I am sure, it does not excuse Metro from their liability of making an unsafe rail line, which can be proven sustained.

If I were to build an apartment building, say seven stories tall, and install balconies on this building but not place a rail, citing esthetic or finacial reasons, would I be acting negligent?

Let's say I could even paint a giant red line on the floor of the balcony a foot or two from the edge, and post a sign say "do not stand on or past the red line", would that be enough?

Let's say I even had the power to have a law passed saying it was illegal to stand on or past a thick red line on a balcony, does that excuse what I have failed to do?

For I can guarantee you people will fall. Metro may claim it was not their fault, and the driver violated the law, but with Metro's current accident record, and all of the history, there is more to the story. The rail iine is a lawsuit waiting to happen.


28 posted on 05/11/2005 8:31:44 AM PDT by Jalapeno
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To: NYorkerInHouston

The truth of the matter is they considered elevated rail "ugly". It was about taking a picture and presenting their people mover to the Olympic committee.

Houston wanted the Olympics and wanted a way of getting large numbers of visitors between their 5 stadiums.

It never was about moving workers in and out of downtown.


29 posted on 05/11/2005 8:32:44 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

The more you learn about who was influencing the mayor's office (in Houston, Cleveland, New Orleans, Detroit, and other major cities) bribing officials for city contracts, the more this scandal becomes a national disgrace.

The Chronicle sat out on this one just as they protected their boy Ken Lay (who went to bat for them to get the 51% majority vote to get their billions of dollars of new stadiums).


30 posted on 05/11/2005 8:35:22 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
Well one area of consistent ridership on a daily basis is medical center employees. While as a physician I can park in the med center itself there is a serious shortage of parking. Most ancillary staff park at offsite parking lots. These used to be serviced by buses going to and from the medical center but are now handled by the light rail. The medical center cooperated in "transitioning" its employees from the buses to light rail. The buses routes themselves have been cut back or entirely eliminated.

My guess is that this guaranteed ridership is a main reason for the initial route selection. It also goes though the museum district and into downtown

Why not Katy first? One of the constant refrains that I hear is that Houstonians would never use mass transit, so don't bother offering it.
31 posted on 05/11/2005 8:37:01 AM PDT by NYorkerInHouston
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To: NYorkerInHouston

How may pedestrians have been hit in the medical center so far?

Well at least they have ready access to some of the finest medical care in the world.

No one said it had to go down that street (Fanin?).

The surface rail makes cars wait at traffic lights (which adds to congestion and pollution).

What exactly was the point of this expensive boondoggle?


32 posted on 05/11/2005 8:38:09 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: NYorkerInHouston

If "Houstonians" don't use rail, then why didn't Metrorail serve the visitors of Houston instead?

Metro opposed the smarter line that went from Intercontiental/Bush Airport into a triangle of the Galleria, Medical Center, and downtown.

Can't offer any solutions in this town that keep visitors out of cars (especially now that the city is dependent on their higher rental car taxes, roughly 28%, for the financing of the staduiums).


33 posted on 05/11/2005 8:41:47 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: NYorkerInHouston
My guess is that this guaranteed ridership is a main reason for the initial route selection.

As someone else pointed out, it would have been far cheaper to buy each rider a Jeep Liberty than build this toy train.

Houstonians use the Park and Rides all the time. Whoever told you that they would not use mass transit if it were available in meaningful form is simply blowing smoke.

34 posted on 05/11/2005 8:42:58 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Controlled substance laws created the federal health care monopoly and fund terrorism.)
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To: weegee

And to say this is the first fatality! Check out the Wham-Bam-Tram numbers on the Action America Houston page http://www.actionamerica.org/houston/index.shtml


35 posted on 05/11/2005 8:43:57 AM PDT by cosine
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To: weegee
***Police and other emergency vehicles stop before they run red lights in this town.***

Shoot weegee, if they and anyone else is smart - they'll stop or slow down before going through a green light in this town (Houston).

36 posted on 05/11/2005 8:44:13 AM PDT by daybreakcoming
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To: NYorkerInHouston

Another sign that this is a yuppie shuttle...

The city is trying to force Greyhound to move their bus terminal off of West Gray and Main St. Not because it gets too much or too little traffic, but because it is "unsightly" to the new residents in the area. Look for the city to pick up the tab on the new terminal if they move.

The downtown establishment is about lining their pockets, not improving Houston.


37 posted on 05/11/2005 8:44:55 AM PDT by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: weegee
Veda Flores was following the pickup truck when she said the driver drove through a red light and into the path of the oncoming train.

Poor, stupid dope.

When it's between an automobile and a train, ALWAYS bet on the train.

38 posted on 05/11/2005 8:46:29 AM PDT by Luna (Lobbing the Holy Hand Grenade at Liberalism)
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To: weegee

>How may pedestrians have been hit in the medical center so
>far?

I don't know offhand- I though there was a website that kept track of this but I can't seem to find it now.

>Well at least they have ready access to some of the finest
>medical care in the world.

>No one said it had to go down that street (Fanin?).

>The surface rail makes cars wait at traffic lights (which
>adds to congestion and pollution).

In the past I had to wait for buses alot more as there are no dedicated drop off or pick zones for buses. Six of one, half dozen of another.

>What exactly was the point of this expensive boondoggle?

The population of Houston is growing and is predicted to continue to grow. Travel times to all of the outlying suburbs is increasing, not just Katy but Pearland, Sugarland, etc... What can be done to ease the problem? The two choices are mass transit and widening of the highways as is happening between Houston and Katy. If you go with mass transit, you have got to start somewhere. Mass transit works best in areas with relative high population density. Houston suburbs are problematic because they are not densely populated.

Also with gas price trends looking the way they are people may soon start looking for alternatives. There aren't any great options though given the overall low density sprawl that is greater Houston.


39 posted on 05/11/2005 8:54:44 AM PDT by NYorkerInHouston
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

>As someone else pointed out, it would have been far
>cheaper to buy each rider a Jeep Liberty than build this
>toy train.

The medical center does not have enough parking for all of its employees and with the plans of Baylor expansion and Methodist expansion there is not going to be any more anytime soon. More SUVs wouldn't help.

>Houstonians use the Park and Rides all the time. Whoever
>told you that they would not use mass transit if it were
>available in meaningful form is simply blowing smoke.

Perhaps but I was hearing this from native Houstonians and being a transplant myself what do I know about how the locals think.


40 posted on 05/11/2005 9:08:40 AM PDT by NYorkerInHouston
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To: NYorkerInHouston
Perhaps but I was hearing this from native Houstonians and being a transplant myself what do I know about how the locals think.

Everybody in Houston is from someplace else.

41 posted on 05/11/2005 9:17:12 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Controlled substance laws created the federal health care monopoly and fund terrorism.)
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To: Jalapeno
Good analogy, Jalapeno. The MetroRail system was poorly designed. The traffic light system is poorly designed (throughout the city, in fact). People being people, accidents and acts of stupidity on the behalf of drivers and pedestrians needed to be factored into design. I am a careful person, but have been to The Texas Medical Center and the Slam Bam Tram is confusing and frightening to be around.

There is plenty of room for blame to go around in this accident but the starting point is the poor design of the MetroRail. Wish it wasn't. There was a great opportunity to lead in mass transportation for a traffic congested city and it was squandered by greed, corruption, etc. Sad.
42 posted on 05/11/2005 9:17:51 AM PDT by hummingbird ("If it wasn't for the insomnia, I could have gotten some sleep!")
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To: weegee

>If "Houstonians" don't use rail, then why didn't Metrorail
>serve the visitors of Houston instead?

>Metro opposed the smarter line that went from
>Intercontiental/Bush Airport into a triangle of the
>Galleria, Medical Center, and downtown.

>Can't offer any solutions in this town that keep visitors
>out of cars (especially now that the city is dependent on
>their higher rental car taxes, roughly 28%, for the
>financing of the staduiums).

Personally I would love to see this- I already pay for parking in the med center- I could just park there and take it up to IAH. I believe one of the proposed expansions moves it closer to IAH, but ultimately just closer doesn't count. If the city is in fact opposing expansion to the airports on the basis of revenue than I have to say that is a short sighted approach to a long term problem.

>Another sign that this is a yuppie shuttle...

>The city is trying to force Greyhound to move their bus
>terminal off of West Gray and Main St. Not because it gets
>too much or too little traffic, but because it
>is "unsightly" to the new residents in the area. Look for
>the city to pick up the tab on the new terminal if they
>move.

>The downtown establishment is about lining their pockets,
>not improving Houston.

Well I am in favor of the downtown insofar as it is a comparitively high density area that is in some areas mixed use. I think Houston needs more of them. I don't live in the downtown myself.


43 posted on 05/11/2005 9:19:57 AM PDT by NYorkerInHouston
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To: weegee

Light Rail = Heavy Rip Off.

Democrats loooooove light rail.


44 posted on 05/11/2005 9:23:56 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: daybreakcoming

Most Houston driver have all the survival instincts of a manically depressed lemming.


45 posted on 05/11/2005 9:26:11 AM PDT by TXBSAFH (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, who's bringing the chips?)
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To: weegee
Another sign that this is a yuppie shuttle...

That's one of the big reasons the voters killed high speed rail here in Florida back in 2004. When Disney demanded that part of the Orlando system run from Orlando International Airport to the gates of their theme parks, instead of going toward downtown, and when Disney got that concession, it helped show what the thing was really going to be. Nothing more than a taxpayer-subsidized trolley at the service of South Florida liberals who wanted to take their grandkids to Disney World and not have to rub elbows with us grubby unwashed hicks along the highways leading there.

46 posted on 05/11/2005 9:33:17 AM PDT by CFC__VRWC ("Anytime a liberal squeals in outrage, an angel gets its wings!" - gidget7)
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To: weegee

As a Houstonian, I can promise you the debate over the Metro still lives on today. The initial cost was astounding, and every time an accident occurs involving the Metro (which I believe now is roughly fifty), the repair costs are in the millions. People do ride it, but I have never seen it even close to being full. One problem is that the signs/street markers/etc. directing traffic in the area of the Metro are hard to see. The other problem is that the Metro is extremely quiet. If you are in a car at a light, or even on foot next to the tracks, you wouldn't know it was coming unless you looked in that direction.


47 posted on 05/11/2005 9:43:57 AM PDT by johnlaw
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To: weegee
Police said four passengers on the train were taken to area hospitals with minor injuries. Eight other riders were not injured

Am I reading this correctly? ONLY 12 PASSENGERS ON THE WHOLE TRAIN?

Why is this system even running if no one uses it?

48 posted on 05/11/2005 10:50:31 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: weegee
the only person in the Dodge pickup truck

Like they say, if you can't dodge it, ram it!

49 posted on 05/11/2005 10:55:32 AM PDT by rabidralph (My truck appreciates the rest of you driving fuel-efficient vehicles.)
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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