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Latest 'Gay' Brain Study Scrutinized
NARTH ^ | May 11, 2005

Posted on 05/11/2005 11:24:42 PM PDT by scripter

The mainstream media is reporting on the latest research that purports to show that gay males and heterosexual males respond differently to certain pheromones.

The New York Times has just reported on findings from Swedish researchers who claim to have found that gay males are attracted to a different kind of scent than heterosexual males.

"For Gay Men, an Attraction to a Different Kind of Scent," by Nicolas Wade (5/10/05) quotes Swedish researchers with the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm who have studied pheromones and the different ways women, gay males and heterosexual males react to them.

Lead researcher Dr. Ivanka Savic studied a testosterone derivative produced in men's sweat and an estrogen-like compound in women's urine. Both of these have been suspected of being pheromones.

Savic and her associates found that that gay males responded to these pheromones in the same way women respond. Heterosexual males responded differently.

This study is being reported in the mainstream press as more evidence for a biological basis for homosexual behavior. However, Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, a lecturer in Civil Liberties and Constitutional Law at Princeton University disagrees. According to Dr. Satinover*:

The key statement in the New York Times interview with one of the authors of the article is this:

"We cannot tell if the different pattern is cause or effect," Dr. Savic said. "The study does not give any answer to these crucial questions."

The same discussion arose after LeVay's study and he finally conceded--years later--that repetition of homosexual activity can change the brain to produce the effects he discovered--likewise here as the researchers state directly.

This study says nothing about homosexuality being innate (whether on a direct genetic or indirect, epigenetic hormonal-developmental basis). Likewise, if one changes the state of one's sexuality. The pheromone response would presumably change in consequence of behavioral-induced alterations in the underlying hypothalamic structures.

Because it is tacit and not explicit, the widely-held and erroneous presumption that brain structures are fixed and unresponsive to experience generates a second presumption, also tacit: That if a brain structure or function can be correlated to a behavioral trait then the trait must be both unchangeable and innate. Unaddressed and left non-explicit, this two-step sequence of tacit presumptions attached to explicit, high quality scientific data but of only a correlative kind, almost invariably generates in the mind of the scientifically unsophisticated something akin to a "belief."

Every single study that has emerged since the original LeVay study that falls into the above class--looking for or finding bimodal statistical physiological correlates (nervous system or otherwise) to homosexual versus heterosexual populations, in both males and females, however defined--comes with the same essential caveat: That cause and effect cannot be distinguished by the study.

Yet the press invariably editorializes, by implication or openly, that each new study somehow builds upon the last; that there exists a slowly but surely growing literature supporting the case that "homosexuality is biological," that "homosexuality is innate," "...genetic," "...unchangeable." Nothing could be further from the truth.

It would be identically and oppositely tendentious to say that "yet another study fails to find a biological, genetic, innate basis for homosexuality."

Dr. Warren Throckmorton has also examined this latest study and draws the following conclusions:


*Dr. Satinover is author of Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth.


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: gay; homosexual; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; narth; study
Related article posted on FR: Study Finds Different Brain Response In Gay, Straight Men.
1 posted on 05/11/2005 11:24:42 PM PDT by scripter
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To: scripter
""We cannot tell if the different pattern is cause or effect," Dr. Savic said. "The study does not give any answer to these crucial questions."

This is the crux of it.

2 posted on 05/11/2005 11:27:31 PM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: scripter

Pavlovs dog bump


3 posted on 05/11/2005 11:28:52 PM PDT by John Lenin (Liberals: Raising little Monsters since Roe vs Wade)
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To: scripter
Money will always prove a point.

Go to google and check pheromones, and the new "gay" products.

Gee, I wonder why they are so new and all citing this research.

This is just a money making fraud, a good one, but still, with the same intent.

4 posted on 05/11/2005 11:29:33 PM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: All
Jesus said: "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore, they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." -from THE BIBLE: Matthew 19:4-6

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CLICK HERE

International Healing Foundation

5 posted on 05/11/2005 11:31:38 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: little jeremiah; EdReform; Scenic Sounds; thoughtomator; WoofDog123; Libertarianize the GOP; ...

Follow up ping.


6 posted on 05/11/2005 11:34:39 PM PDT by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: John Lenin

Whoops - you're already on the thread and I just pinged you to it - along with everybody else from the previous thread...


7 posted on 05/11/2005 11:35:24 PM PDT by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: scripter
People Can Change
8 posted on 05/11/2005 11:36:05 PM PDT by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: EdReform; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; stage left; Yakboy; I_Love_My_Husband; ...

Homosexual Agenda Ping.

The very last one of the night, I promise. I really have other things to do in life besides do this (and my other) pinglist. :-)

Here's more info, beyond the excitedly breathless goo-goo articles (I didn't even ping them all out) about how "gay" people like other "gay" peoples' smell. As though that means anything at all. If true, even.

Personally, I like the smell of cottonwood trees in the spring.

Let me know if you want on/off this pinglist.


9 posted on 05/11/2005 11:41:54 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: scripter
With all the pride parades you would think gays would be happy to tell people that it's a choice instead of trying to create some phony excuse for their condition.
10 posted on 05/11/2005 11:42:20 PM PDT by John Lenin (Liberals: Raising little Monsters since Roe vs Wade)
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To: FairOpinion
This is the crux of it.

Indeed. And when we look at all the evidence, including the thousands of homosexuals who have left the lifestyle, we can make an educated guess as to whether cause or effect.

11 posted on 05/11/2005 11:42:39 PM PDT by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: John Lenin
It's always interesting when you get somebody admitting to choosing the lifestyle. I must admit, it really is quite complicated and most don't choose the same-sex attraction (as I said it's quite complicated), but they do choose to engage in homosexual behavior.

The following book is a must read, IMO: A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality.

12 posted on 05/11/2005 11:47:21 PM PDT by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: scripter

Swedish researchers again? Last week it was sexual abuse in Sweden with animals.

"The same discussion arose after LeVay's study, and he finally conceded-years later-that repetition of homosexual activity can change the brain to produce the effects he discovered-likewise here as the researchers state directly. The study says nothing about homosexuality being inate, (whether on a direct genetic or indirect epegenic hormonal-developemental basis). Likewise, if one changes the state of one's sexuality. The pheromone response would presumably change in consequence of behavioral-induced alterations of the underlying hypothalamic structures"

Sweden is contributing to science possibly more than they realize. Can we not conclude the same alterations to the hypothalamic structures may happen if one engages in sex with animals? Would one become more attuned to the pheromones of animals?





13 posted on 05/12/2005 12:38:39 AM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: scripter

thanks bump.


14 posted on 05/12/2005 12:49:49 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Sonny M

This is like the pig based pheremone cologne back in the 80's which was guaraneeeeeeeed to attract the opposite sex. (unless you used the wrong gender spray)


15 posted on 05/12/2005 12:52:17 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: scripter

regarding the preventing homosexuality book.

People should scroll down and read the comments.

Some are quite hateful and the one from the admitted homsexual is downright funny.


16 posted on 05/12/2005 12:55:20 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: scripter

"most don't choose the same-sex attraction "


===

They are merely conned into it by other homosexual predators.


17 posted on 05/12/2005 1:00:40 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: scripter

Notice the article assumes the female pheromone that normal men respond to emminates from the female genitalia. This is to be expected. The smell of pussy is undoubtedly something males would respond to being the object of a males desire. It just makes sense.

But then the article says the motivating pheromone for homosexual perverts is found in sweat? That's total BS! The smell that homosexual males get turned on by emminates from the rectum. The rectum is their object of desire so naturally their sexual response would key off the smell of human waste. It just stands to reason.


18 posted on 05/12/2005 3:48:43 AM PDT by Hitlerys uterus (I have just about had it up to here with foreigners.)
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To: little jeremiah
Personally, I like the smell of cottonwood trees in the spring.

Does that make you a tree hugger? :^)

19 posted on 05/12/2005 6:31:49 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: scripter
Gay brain?? How 'bout...


Happy Feet!! ;o)

20 posted on 05/12/2005 6:35:33 AM PDT by LIConFem (Mein Luftkissenboot ist mit Aalen voll.)
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To: longtermmemmory
This is like the pig based pheremone cologne back in the 80's which was guaraneeeeeeeed to attract the opposite sex. (unless you used the wrong gender spray)

Finally, somone who understands.

This is whole thing is just another way to push a scam, only instead of straight guys, now its gay guys.

These companies don't care, but they see a market, unexploited, and an oppurtunity.

This research is going to be cited, and used, to push another fake cologne onto another group of idiots, who will believe in this fraudulent research, and thus as the saying goes "A fool and his money are soon seperated".

Couldn't happen to a better group though.

21 posted on 05/12/2005 7:48:21 AM PDT by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: John O

:-)

Sometimes I lean on them.


22 posted on 05/12/2005 8:18:05 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: FairOpinion
They are merely conned into it by other homosexual predators.

I'd say that's a pretty accurate statement. Homosexual predators see an opportunity, let's say it's a confused boy who is longing for something he didn't get from his father, and the opportunist will take advantage of the innocent.

We really need to educate parents of young children:

  1. Targeting Children, Part 1: How the gay movement intends to capture the next generation
  2. Targeting Children, Part 2: How the homosexual movement uses public schools as instruments of change
  3. Targeting Children, Part 3: Activists encouraging experimentation
  4. Targeting Children, Part 4: Access to children: homosexuality and molestation

23 posted on 05/12/2005 8:55:15 AM PDT by scripter (Tens of thousands have left the homosexual lifestyle)
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To: scripter

The emphasis on "normalization" of homosexuality in the public schools appears to be designed to "create" homosexuals. My daughter commented that many kids in her high school are "coming out." Although the school's rules prohibit public displays of affection, there is a broad tolerance to gay youth "making out" on the courtyard during lunch.

At a recent Virginia state choral music gathering, my daughter said she was "grossed out" by hundreds of effeminate-acting guys going around wearing makeup. The school chaperones were intent on keeping the sexes apart, but no consideration was given to the opportunities exploited by gays sharing rooms in the hotel where they stayed.

These pro-gay proponents are capitalizing on the innate teenage rebelliousness and filling their heads full of liberal tripe. Formerly, kids rebelled by listening to rock music and dressing in faddish clothes and hair styles. Nowadays, the kids rebel by choosing to become a different sex. The psychic damage and the carnage of health issues that is going to ravage this generation is going to be immense.

GW


24 posted on 05/12/2005 9:08:07 AM PDT by gregwest
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To: Sonny M
These companies don't care, but they see a market, unexploited, and an opportunity.

Of course you're right. If it really worked we'd be buying a couple million shares when their IPO goes public.

25 posted on 05/12/2005 9:14:48 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (WARNING: Exposure To The Son May Prevent Burning.)
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To: scripter
Innate or learned is not relevant to the real issue; would society and most homosexuals be better off if society encouraged them to not give in to temptation?
26 posted on 05/12/2005 9:35:45 AM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: scripter

I heard the other day our children are now called GAY KIDS, if there ever can be the last straw for me thats it.


27 posted on 05/12/2005 9:40:38 AM PDT by lillybet (Please)
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To: scripter; EdReform; little jeremiah; DBeers
I'm sticking with the two conflicting conclusions debunking of this. Science is only valid if it's relicable.

The Wysocki study "Gay" men reacted to only other "gay" men AND heterosexual women...BUT not heterosexual men.

The Savic study reports "gay" men were attracted to all men and NOT females.

Do you see the huge difference in results here? I wonder why the NYT story left out the glaring conclusions in the Wysocki study that "gay" men WERE attracted to heterosexual females and NOT heterosexual men?

I'm also with Throckmorton on it could be learned behavior. Neither study addressed this common sense question. If I worked at a fish market or a dump every day I think I'd become accustomed to foul smells, how is this any different?

28 posted on 05/12/2005 10:00:46 AM PDT by Clint N. Suhks (WARNING: Exposure To The Son May Prevent Burning.)
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To: scripter; Peach; All

We really need to educate parents of young children:


Ageed. In addition to reading the articles you linked to, I encourage everyone to get a copy of the book The Death of Right and Wrong: Exposing the Left's Assault on Our Culture and Values by Tammy Bruce, and read Chapter Four: First the Culture, Then the Children: The Agenda of the Radical Gay Elite and Chapter Seven: Destruction of the Innocents: The Left Targets Children.

From Chapter Four:

"The radicals in control of the gay establishment want children in their world of moral decay, lack of self-restraint, and moral relativism. Why? How better to truly belong to the majority (when you're really on the fringe) than by taking possession of the next generation? By targeting children, you can start indoctrinating the next generation with the false construct that gay people deserve special treatment and special laws." (Pg.88)

"I believe this grab for children by the sexually confused adults of the Gay Elite repesents the most serious problem facing our culture today." (Pg.94)

"Between GLSEN, the Happy Penis, Phil, and now Kami, I'd say the Gay Elite have your children as a captive audience. Whether you like it or not, they have appointed themselves your children's moral tutor." (pg.119)


29 posted on 05/12/2005 10:57:53 AM PDT by EdReform (Free Republic - helping to keep our country a free republic. Thank you for your financial support!)
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To: Hitlerys uterus

Do you have asource for the rectum origin?


30 posted on 05/12/2005 12:53:43 PM PDT by expatpat
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To: scripter

Change your brain, change your life.

Probably all the abuse these people suffered in childhood, coupled with defective neural wiring, contributed to their orientation.


31 posted on 05/12/2005 2:01:34 PM PDT by MoochPooch (A righteous person worries about his or her behavior, an extremist about everyone else's.)
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