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Early humans 'followed coast'
BBC ^ | 5/14/05

Posted on 05/14/2005 1:49:00 PM PDT by LibWhacker

The first humans who left Africa to populate the world headed south along the coast of the Indian Ocean, Science magazine reports.

Scientists had always thought the exodus from Africa around 70,000 years ago took place along a northern route into Europe and Asia.

But according to a genetic study, early modern humans followed the beach, possibly lured by a seafood diet.

They quickly reached Australia but took much longer to settle in Europe.

Dr Martin Richards of the University of Leeds, who took part in the study, says the first humans may have moved south in search of better fishing grounds when stocks in the Red Sea dwindled due to climate change.

"That might have been the push that set them off," he told the BBC News website.

DNA clues

When the first modern humans evolved in Africa, they lived mainly on meat hunted from animals. But by 70,000 years ago, they had switched to a marine diet, largely shellfish.

The new research suggests they moved along the coasts of the Arabian peninsula into India, Indonesia and Australia about 65,000 years ago. An offshoot later led to the settlement of the Middle East and Asia about 30 to 40,000 years ago.

The data comes from studies by two teams of scientists on the DNA of native people living in Malaysia and on the Andaman and Nicobar Islands between India and Burma.

Scientists can estimate how closely related we are by studying the DNA of the energy producing parts of the cell, our mitochondria.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: coast; dna; early; evolution; followed; godsgravesglyphs; humans; migration; spliffordmissesyou; turass
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Strange, I thought this was already a settled question, agreed upon by anthropologists some years ago.
1 posted on 05/14/2005 1:49:01 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker
"They quickly reached Australia but took much longer to settle in Europe"

How did they so "quickly" find Australia but took them longer to settle in Europe? And how about the ethnicity of the Aussie natives? You can't find them anywhere in Europe.
2 posted on 05/14/2005 1:56:28 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("If Love Can't Buy You Happiness, You Don't Know Where To Shop")
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To: LibWhacker

So 'splain to me how these guys "know" us humans came out of Africa?


3 posted on 05/14/2005 2:08:29 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LibWhacker

Well, of course, they followed the coast! The surfing was good and all the places where they could get drinks with little umbrellas in them were along the coast!


4 posted on 05/14/2005 2:08:51 PM PDT by Tacis ( SEAL THE FRIGGEN BORDER!!!)
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To: LibWhacker; All

I thought I read in the lasr few weeks that there is serious doubt about a female out of Africa being the whole start of the human race.


5 posted on 05/14/2005 2:10:10 PM PDT by x1stcav (Hooahh!)
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To: SkyDancer

I can't answer your question, but as an aside, I saw a program on the Science Channel last year that explained how ancient man knew Australia was there: namely, from his vantage point on the southern coast of Papua New Guinea, he would've seen the smoke from Australian forrest fires. Supposedly, he then built rafts and crossed over.


6 posted on 05/14/2005 2:11:08 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

Right - forgot how close Asian countries were to Oz ....


7 posted on 05/14/2005 2:12:53 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("If Love Can't Buy You Happiness, You Don't Know Where To Shop")
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To: Tacis

8 posted on 05/14/2005 2:15:58 PM PDT by kingattax
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer); x1stcav

Boy, you're gonna have to ask someone who knows a lot more about than me! . . . But I'm assuming they "know" from the fossil record and the DNA trail. However, see x1stcav's comment. I saw something about that, too, and am trying to track it down.


9 posted on 05/14/2005 2:21:29 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Tacis

lol


10 posted on 05/14/2005 2:21:55 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Tacis
Well, of course, they followed the coast! The surfing was good and all the places where they could get drinks with little umbrellas in them were along the coast!

Your statement is the first and only one that has made sense to me. Thank you.

I have personally believed that our relatives originally came from La La Land, but those are only my beliefs. I bet too those Mai Tais were wonderful, the stick with those wonderful pineapple slices and cherries to give it added flavor. Oh for the good old days.

11 posted on 05/14/2005 2:25:29 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: SkyDancer
You can't find them anywhere in Europe.

No - they're too poor to make the trip.

12 posted on 05/14/2005 2:27:22 PM PDT by solitas (So what if I support a platform that has fewer flaws than yours? 'Mystic' dual 500 G4's, OSX.3.7)
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To: LibWhacker

Thank you. My intentions were not to put you in a spot. I apologize. My question was out of order. It should have been a general question to "all."

My best regards.


13 posted on 05/14/2005 2:30:34 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LibWhacker
the first humans may have moved south in search of better fishing grounds when stocks in the Red Sea dwindled due to climate change.

It was those damn SUVs.

14 posted on 05/14/2005 2:34:20 PM PDT by kidd
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To: solitas

That was terribly insensitive of you. I'm going to go laugh for a half hour or so now.


15 posted on 05/14/2005 2:37:03 PM PDT by Rane _H
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

Actually, the first humans came from what is now Florida, and they spread slowly across the "Americas". Eventually, some migrated to Asia, some to Africa, some to Ireland, etc. This is why so many people want to fly to Disney World, to find their roots.


16 posted on 05/14/2005 2:37:03 PM PDT by foofoopowder
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

Hey, no problem. I like being put on the spot as long as it's a positive experience and I learn something from it. And your question qualifies! Cheers! :-)


17 posted on 05/14/2005 2:37:25 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: foofoopowder
“Actually, the first humans came from what is now Florida, and they spread slowly across the "Americas". Eventually, some migrated to Asia, some to Africa, some to Ireland, etc. This is why so many people want to fly to Disney World, to find their roots.

My EXACAT THEORY!!! How did you know? A stupid question on my part. The answer is because you are extremely smart. Disney World is La La Land!!! It’s so obvious!!! Even a blind person can see this.

18 posted on 05/14/2005 2:48:04 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LibWhacker

What I want to know is whether this wave is post- or pre- Toba "bottleneck".

I always thought that Papuans and Aborigines were remnants of pre-bottleneck populations and the other races of the area later post bottleneck arrivals.

But this analysis has the migration occuring 5000 years AFTER the Toba eruption. Are they saying ALL the pre-Toba humans in Southeast Asia and Australia wiped out by Toba?


19 posted on 05/14/2005 2:49:09 PM PDT by John Valentine (Whoop dee doo)
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To: LibWhacker

But according to a genetic study, early modern humans followed the beach, possibly lured by a seafood diet.

20 posted on 05/14/2005 2:50:28 PM PDT by NCjim (The more I use Windows, the more I love UNIX)
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To: LibWhacker
Hey, no problem. I like being put on the spot as long as it's a positive experience and I learn something from it. And your question qualifies! Cheers! :-)

Thank you for your kindness, but I will still say I was out of order. I could have expressed my thoughts in a different way or not expressed them at all knowing how you feel.

21 posted on 05/14/2005 2:54:47 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LibWhacker; x1stcav
see x1stcav's comment. I saw something about that, too, and am trying to track it down.

National Geographic is currently conducting research on this and has invited the public to participate. You have to pay for the DNA kit. I signed up and am waiting to hear something.

They also have an interactive map on their site which is interesting and shows the common theory of ancient humans migrating to Europe and parts of Asia, then Siberia to North America, etc.

I have not heard of the possibility of debunking a common ancestor but if anyone is researching this, I'd like to know more.

22 posted on 05/14/2005 3:01:13 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

EXACAT? My EXACAT theory? I thought that word looked strange before I posted, but I couldn't figure out what it was. It looks like a good word. Maybe I can invent a meaning to it in the near future.


23 posted on 05/14/2005 3:08:36 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LibWhacker
Another thing is that is doesn't make sense that humans were "pushed south" by climate change, which could only mean the ice age, when it has been standard dogma that humans first appeared on the radar during the ice age and lived in the habitabal parts of the planet, mainly north and central Africa which was lush during the ice age, not desert. As the ice receded, humans began moving further north. Homo sapien (modern man) survived and the various other human species died off.

And I'm still one of those goofs that thinks the Sasquatch is one of the few surving Neanderthals! But then I don't have a custom-made tin foil hat either. :-))

24 posted on 05/14/2005 3:09:28 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
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To: LibWhacker
studying the DNA of the energy producing parts of the cell, our mitochondria.

This does not add up, cellularly.

25 posted on 05/14/2005 3:12:44 PM PDT by RightWhale (These problems would not exist if we had had a moon base all along)
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To: PistolPaknMama

Here's a link to the Bradshaw interactive map. I recommend exploring it completely, including the popup explanations indicated by the small "book" icons shown after each stage.

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/


26 posted on 05/14/2005 3:24:03 PM PDT by John Valentine (Whoop dee doo)
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To: x1stcav; Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
Okay, here's the article I saw a couple of weeks ago. At the time I immediately dismissed it as commie propaganda. But who knows???
27 posted on 05/14/2005 3:39:24 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: PistolPaknMama

Wow, THAT'S interesting, thanks! Think I'll participate. But if they classify me as non-human and put me in a zoo, you've gotta come and get me out, deal? ;-)


28 posted on 05/14/2005 3:43:13 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: John Valentine
Are they saying ALL the pre-Toba humans in Southeast Asia and Australia wiped out by Toba?

It sounds to me like they're saying the first wave of migrants moved into that region after Toba. But that's totally wrong, I think (at least from what little I know about it).

29 posted on 05/14/2005 3:50:56 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker
But if they classify me as non-human and put me in a zoo, you've gotta come and get me out, deal?

Do I have to bring you home too??

30 posted on 05/14/2005 4:00:15 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
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To: John Valentine
the Bradshaw interactive map

I will certainly do that and greatly appreciate the link.

31 posted on 05/14/2005 4:01:39 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
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To: LibWhacker

Thank you. Yes, I remember reading that article with great interest since I personally do not swallow the theory humans as we know them today came out of Africa. I don't know where we started other than La La Land/Disney World, but neither does anybody else. At least that article was a good start in debunking the Africa theorists.


32 posted on 05/14/2005 4:02:41 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: PistolPaknMama
Do I have to bring you home too??

Yes. And feed him/her very well please.

33 posted on 05/14/2005 4:05:47 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LibWhacker
when stocks in the Red Sea dwindled due to climate change.

SUVs?

34 posted on 05/14/2005 4:07:06 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer); x1stcav; John Valentine; PistolPaknMama; SkyDancer
Well, here's another recently posted FR article I thought you guys might be interested in, though it sure adds to my confusion! Ice to the north and west blocked the first group of people to migrate out of Africa, so they headed south and east. And the exodus didn't take place until 65,000 years ago, well after Toba.
35 posted on 05/14/2005 4:07:33 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: PistolPaknMama
Do I have to bring you home too??

Only if the howling won't bother you! :-)

36 posted on 05/14/2005 4:09:17 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)

Lol, thank you. :-)


37 posted on 05/14/2005 4:12:29 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

Origin of phrase, "The coast is clear".


38 posted on 05/14/2005 4:18:53 PM PDT by kanawa
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To: LibWhacker
Interesting article in your link above. Thanks for finding it again.

The first thing I thought of when I read about an Asian origination of homo sapiens -- and this doesn't reflect my opinion at all because I HAVE no opinion! -- is that people who have been to any place in Asia generally tell the same tale of how racist Asians are to anyone who is not Asian. And also how they believe they are the superior race, but a fascinating find and theory nontheless.

It would make sense, in that vein, that they would want to prove that all of humankind originated in the Orient. Also, there have been lots of extinct human species (Peking man) that did not evolve or crossbreed with homo sapiens.

Interesting stuff, and we may never have the answer. It's like putting together a 5 million piece jigsaw puzzle. You have to admit, a LOT of pizza and beer would be required for that project! :-)

Disclaimer: I have no prejudice against Asians as I have known a few very fine Asian folk for whom I've had the highest regard. (How do you spell Michelle Malkin?) I only related something above I was told which came to mind as I read LibWhacker's link. (end of PC disclaimer)

39 posted on 05/14/2005 4:19:52 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
"So 'splain to me how these guys "know" us humans came out of Africa?"


"...The most empirical anthropologist is here as limited as an antiquary. He can only cling to a fragment of the past and has no way of increasing it for the future. He can only clutch his fragment of fact, almost as the primitive man clutched his fragment of flint. And indeed he does deal with it in much the same way and for much the same reason. It is his tool and his only tool. It is his weapon and his only weapon. He often wields it with a fanaticism far in excess of anything shown by men of science when they can collect more facts from experience and even add new facts by experiment. Sometimes the professor with his bone becomes almost as dangerous as a dog with his bone. And the dog at least does not deduce a theory from it, proving that mankind is going to the dogs-or that it came from them. For instance, I have pointed out the difficulty of keeping a monkey and watching it evolve into a man. Experimental evidence of such an evolution being impossible, the professor is not content to say (as most of us would be ready to say) that such an evolution is likely enough anyhow. He produces his little bone, or little collection of bones, and deduces the most marvelous things from it. He found in Java a piece of a skull, seeming by its contour to be smaller than the human. Somewhere near it he found an upright thigh-bone and in the same scattered fashion some teeth that were not human. If they all form part of one creature, which is doubtful, our conception of the creature would be almost equally doubtful. But the effect on popular science was to produce a complete and even complex figure, finished down to the last details of hair and habits. He was given a name as if he were an ordinary historical character. People talked of Pithecanthropus as of Pitt or Fox or Napoleon. Popular histories published portraits of 'him like the portraits of Charles the First and George the Fourth. A detailed drawing was reproduced, carefully shaded, to show that the very hairs of his head were all numbered. No uninformed person looking at its carefully lined face and wistful eyes would imagine for a moment that this was the portrait of a thigh bone; or of a few teeth and a fragment of a cranium. In the same way people talked about him as if he were an individual whose influence and character were familiar to us all. I have just read a story in a magazine about Java and how modern white inhabitants of that island are prevailed on to misbehave themselves by the personal influence of poor old Pithecanthropus. That the modern inhabitants of Java misbehave themselves I can very readily believe; but I do not imagine that they need any encouragement from the discovery of a few highly doubtful bones...."

GK Chesterton
The Everlasting Man

40 posted on 05/14/2005 4:20:26 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer); LibWhacker
Yes. And feed him/her very well please

Well since the now-extinct, non- homo sapiens basically followed an Atkins diet, that should be easy. Ewww. Atkins. Wonder what that says about Atkins dieters?

Maybe LibWhacker is the missing link. Another mystery solved by the Pajama Brigrade. woo hoo!

41 posted on 05/14/2005 4:30:22 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
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To: LibWhacker

Thank you for the link.

I think I will go now onto my balcony and scream. Then I will retreat and have a good stiff drink. Why? Because I’m frustrated. The last article you offered contains a lot of interesting points, and I need to read it when I am fresh (in the morning because I am a “morning” person) and try to review what is known and not known and weed out the speculations. This is a very interesting subject.

Again, thank you.


42 posted on 05/14/2005 4:34:50 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Joe 6-pack
He found in Java a piece of a skull, seeming by its contour to be smaller than the human. Somewhere near it he found an upright thigh-bone and in the same scattered fashion some teeth that were not human. If they all form part of one creature, which is doubtful, our conception of the creature would be almost equally doubtful. But the effect on popular science was to produce a complete and even complex figure, finished down to the last details of hair and habits.

Thank you for that wonderful post! I read it twice. Tomorrow I will read it several times more to get its full flavor. To the article, I say "amen." Case closed.

43 posted on 05/14/2005 4:50:02 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: PistolPaknMama
Maybe LibWhacker is the missing link. Another mystery solved by the Pajama Brigrade. woo hoo!

LOLOL!

Good point about Atkins dieters. Having tried that diet, and as much as I love a good steak, I can say without further qualification that something very primal exists in me that let me know in no uncertain terms when I was on Atkins that red meat alone just doesn't cut it!

44 posted on 05/14/2005 4:54:35 PM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker
Only if the howling won't bother you!

ROFL!!!!

45 posted on 05/14/2005 5:11:29 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
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To: Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
"I read it twice. Tomorrow I will read it several times more to get its full flavor."

Chesterton has been known to have that effect on people. His autobiography was written the year he died (1936). In it he writes:

"So far as a man may be proud of a religion rooted in humility, I am very proud of my religion; I am especially proud of those parts of it that are most commonly called superstition. I am proud of being fettered by antiquated dogmas and enslaved by dead creeds (as my journalistic friends repeat with so much pertinacity), for I know very well that it is the heretical creeds that are dead, and that it is only the reasonable dogma that lives long enough to be called antiquated."


46 posted on 05/14/2005 5:12:55 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: PistolPaknMama
Maybe LibWhacker is the missing link.

Well, let's see now. We can do a Dr. Adkins experiment and give LibWhacker a diet of Chocolate Raspberry Truffle Godiva Ice Cream with lots of cream on top for a month. If LW gains weight, then we know that LW the missing link. If LW is fed on wild fruits and game and doesn't gain weight, LW can still prove to be the missing link.

47 posted on 05/14/2005 5:13:39 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: Joe 6-pack

Thank you. What a brilliant man. Thank you for introducing him to me.


48 posted on 05/14/2005 5:23:10 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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To: LibWhacker
Been there done that. I have to have pasta. And beans. Lima beans, butter beans, sugar peas (aka english peas?), kidney beans and rice. Southerners eat rice, don't ask me why.

Anyway, obviously I can adapt to the diet of my new pet. Let's wait till you get your results back first before I go shopping. Did you find the National Geographic site? If not I might can help. Who knows, we may have had a common ancestor 20k years ago. That would make us 11 to the nth power cousins.

49 posted on 05/14/2005 5:26:08 PM PDT by PistolPaknMama (Will work for cool tag line.)
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To: PistolPaknMama

I just got my results back. It said I didn't count because I am decentent from cuatimundis.


50 posted on 05/14/2005 5:37:17 PM PDT by Gatún(CraigIsaMangoTreeLawyer)
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