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Stop Apologizing to Islam!! - (stupendous...what else can I say? Barbara Stock is RIGHT! ENOUGH!)
CHRONWATCH.COM ^ | MAY 15, 2005 | BARBARA STOCK

Posted on 05/14/2005 11:23:48 PM PDT by CHARLITE

We Americans need to get our priorities straight. We are at war with Islam. I want President Bush, Secretary Rice, the media, and the bleeding-heart liberals to stop apologizing to Islam and I want it to stop right now. Islamists are slaughtering people all over the world. Islam has threatened to make our streets “run red with American blood.” A Saudi Islamic cleric gave bin Laden permission to detonate a nuke in a major American city. Enough already!

What has set off the latest round of breast-beating and begging for Islamic forgiveness? Allegedly, the Quran was urinated on, or placed on a toilet or something. Newsweek couldn’t wait to report this non-story knowing it would trigger anti-American riots and give the Islamic propaganda machine fodder for weeks to come. In fact, if Islam has any pattern, people will die because of these still unproven allegations. Once again, the sins of Islamists will be on the back page as we Americans scramble to be forgiven by Islam.

Look for more kidnappings that will be followed by the obligatory beheadings of innocent people so that “Islamic honor” can be restored. As we have all learned, only the death of someone not even remotely involved in whatever it is Islamists are enraged about, restores Islam’s “honor.” These beheadings will be video taped and gleefully shown on Al Jazeera every five minutes. In fact, four Afghani men have already died because of that report. Good job, Newsweek.

What has happened to this country? Four months after the attack on Pearl Harbor, Lt. Col. Jimmy Doolittle and his raiders launched an attack on mainland Japan. That raid had one purpose and one purpose only: To humiliate the Japanese and let them clearly know they had picked a fight with the wrong dog. Did Franklin Delano Roosevelt “apologize” for the attack? Of course not! He approved the raid.

On December 7, 1941, 2,403 men died at Pearl Harbor. On September 11, 2001, 2,948 people died with 48 still missing and presumed dead for a total of 2,996 on American soil. Pearl Harbor was at least a military target. The World Trade Center was not.

Now we are at war again. This time with an enemy that has no borders, no country, no government, and no recognizable army. Islam is an enemy that does not hesitate to kill innocent civilians. In fact, Islam prefers civilians because it fears our military. It’s much cheaper and easier to kill a child than a Marine.

Islam was not outraged as Saddam Hussain slaughtered his people. Islam was not outraged as the Taliban executed women for any number of imagined sins. Islam is silent as Iran stones 13-year-old girls to death. Islam is not outraged as thousands of young women die at the hands of their own families in brutal honor killings. Islam says nothing as its terrorist heroes butcher Iraqi Muslims on a daily basis.

What does it take to make a Muslim angry? Say something bad about Islam and you can lose your head. Drop the Quran in the dirt and you will be hanged. In Sudan, a hapless man named Mohamed Taha Mohamed Ahmed, dared speculate that Mohammed was not the son of Abdullah and is now on trial for blasphemy and he will probably be hanged. Mobs of foaming-at-the-mouth Muslims gather outside the courthouse demanding he be torn to bits for even thinking such a thing.

Put women’s underwear on a Muslim prisoner’s head and Islamists lose total control and riot in the streets outraged at the barbaric treatment of their “soldiers.” Islamic terrorists do not uphold a single word of the Geneva Convention. They beat, torture, and behead our prisoners, many of whom are not even soldiers. They desecrate bodies by burning them and hanging them from bridges, but touch that Quran and Islam loses its collective mind.

We are apologizing to these people?

Perhaps Americans need some reminders of some of the crimes that Islam has committed against America. It is in the name of Islam these attacks have been carried out and I hold Islam responsible because it is Islam that has raised these terrorists to hero status.

On the orders of Yassar Arafat the American embassy was attacked in March of 1973 and two diplomats were killed and others were held hostage. Arafat demanded the freedom of fellow Muslim Sirhan Sirhan, in prison for killing Robert Kennedy.

A few months later, in Athens, three Americans were killed and 55 injured as Islamic terrorists threw grenades and machine-gunned civilians waiting for a flight to New York.

In 1983, 17 Americans died when Islamists blew up a car in front of the embassy in Lebanon. Four more Americans died when the American embassy in Kuwait was attacked that same year.

Returning to the American embassy in Lebanon in 1984, 24 more Americans died when yet another car bomb went off outside the embassy.

The year 1985 brought death to five Americans in Rome with 74 wounded in an Islamic attack at the airport. Also in 1985, Americans got their first glimpse into the soul of the enemy when Islamic terrorists took over the cruise ship Achilles Lauro and shot a crippled American Jew in a wheelchair, Leon Klinghoffer, and then pushed him overboard.

In May, 1987, the U.S.S. Stark was attacked by an Iraqi fighter plane and 37 American sailors died.

Libya blew up a Pan Am flight over Scotland killing 189 Americans on their way home for Christmas.

Eighteen American soldiers died in Somalia in 1993 and six Americans died in the first World Trade Center bombing with over a thousand injured.

At 9:03 on the morning of April 19, 1995, a Ryder truck blew up in front of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. On that spring day 168 people died—many of them small children. This classic Islamic attack was quickly blamed on two “home-grown” terrorists. This case is in the process of being re-examined due to overwhelming evidence that al Qaeda and possibly Saddam Hussain were involved.

In 1996, 19 Americans died when Islamists blew up the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. Also in 1996 there was the mysterious downing of TWA Flight 800. There were 169 Americans on board.

August 7, 1997 was the last day on earth for 23 Americans who were at the American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya.

The year 2000 brought the attack on the U.S.S. Cole that killed 17 American sailors.

This, of course, brings us to the attack on September 11, 2001. There have been many more attacks leading up to that horrible day and not once has Islam apologized.

I hear, “We don’t want to sink to the Islamists’ level.” I don’t want to hear that any more either. There is absolutely no comparison to be made. Islamic prisoners are fed, clothed, and allowed to practice the very religion that has sworn to kill us all. I don’t hear any Islamic outrage over the hostage beheadings or Iraqi children being targeted by Islamic butchers. I didn’t hear a peep of anger when a British imam said children were legitimate targets for Islam.

Islam seems to have no limit to the evil it will inflict on others. Because of this, Islam has lost all rights to protest an imagined injustice inflicted on it.

About the Writer: Barbara J. Stock is a registered nurse who enjoys writing about politics and current events. She has a website at http://www.republicanandproud.com/. Barbara J. receives e-mail at dickens502003@yahoo.com.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 229; allahkissmyass; americans; apologies; apologizing; beheadings; butchery; cary; ilsamofascists; islam; islamisdeath; islamofascism; islamokazis; koran; koranimals; moomurderers; moslemdeathcult; murderingmoos; muslins; peeonmuhammed; pisslam; quran; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; religionoftolerance; terror; thereligionofpeace; torture; trop
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1 posted on 05/14/2005 11:23:49 PM PDT by CHARLITE
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To: Beth528; Billthedrill; HonestConservative; SMARTY; Ghost of Philip Marlowe; CyberAnt; ...

Islam Ping!


2 posted on 05/14/2005 11:25:01 PM PDT by CHARLITE (Not gonna be happy until the Hillster is sent packing.)
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To: CHARLITE

Political correctness is a mental illness.


3 posted on 05/14/2005 11:34:10 PM PDT by sheik yerbouty
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To: CHARLITE

This article needs to be sent to the US Government offices including Dr.Rice and Prez.Bush and your senators in each state. At least that way, they will realize what we are up against. This (Islam) is a serious problem that is threatening the entire civilized world and it needs to be destroyed.

Velocityguy.
-An Ex-Muslim


4 posted on 05/14/2005 11:38:41 PM PDT by velocityguy
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To: CHARLITE

Why don't we see writers like her on Fox News?! I'll forward it to the usual suspects (Hannity, BOR, Cavuto, Gibson)


5 posted on 05/14/2005 11:40:52 PM PDT by lainde
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To: CHARLITE

thanks for the ping!

A.A.C.


6 posted on 05/14/2005 11:42:07 PM PDT by AmericanArchConservative (Armour on, Lances high, Swords out, Bows drawn, Shields front ... Eagles UP!)
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To: CHARLITE

bttt


7 posted on 05/14/2005 11:52:42 PM PDT by justkillingtime
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To: CHARLITE

8 posted on 05/14/2005 11:54:45 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Recall Barbara Boxer)
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To: Alouette; Salem; SJackson

Ping!


9 posted on 05/14/2005 11:57:15 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("You would have to double your IQ to be stupid. " --zip)
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To: CHARLITE
Look for more kidnappings that will be followed by the obligatory beheadings of innocent people so that “Islamic honor” can be restored

“Islamic honor”??

Now there's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.

People who beat their women and murder innocent civillians over a so called religion are pretty short in the "honor" dept.

10 posted on 05/14/2005 11:58:04 PM PDT by Bullish
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To: CHARLITE

I agree with the sentiments expressed but let me give you another perspective on the strategy.

Since 9/11 we have toppled the two arab regimes who stuck their heads out the most. These two countries just happen to surround Iran and give us strategic positioning on Saudi Arabia and Syria. Militarily, this is a good thing.

On the cultural side, we are fighting an enemy that is more of an idea than a specifically targetable entity. From a Christian viewpoint, Jesus told us His Word would prevail wherever it is preached. Because of the success of conversion from Muslims, arab countries do not allow--under pain of death--the preaching of the Gospel. Democratic countries, on the other hand, begin with the basic freedoms of speech, religion and association.

If democracy can truly take hold in this region, then we have put a wooden stake through Islam's heart.

On the flip side, if we were to be more direct as the author suggests, we would likely incite a 2 billion person global bloodbath.

I think we're moving in the right direction strategically and I'll accept some (not all) of the ROP idiocy in exchange for the bigger picture.


11 posted on 05/15/2005 12:00:03 AM PDT by pgyanke (The Son of God became a man to enable men to become sons of God.)
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To: CHARLITE
That's all well and good, but if you declare war on all Muslims things will far worse for us in Iraq, Afghanistan among other places. Put simply it's foolish.

And then what are you going to do with the millions of Muslims that are US citizens living here? Have their neighbors run'em up the nearest flagpole?
12 posted on 05/15/2005 12:04:43 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: pgyanke

Exactly.


13 posted on 05/15/2005 12:06:36 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: velocityguy
Do you really think they even read anything us "expendable" citizens send them?

I used to think that. The only thing they read anymore are the checks we send them to keep their sorry asses in Washington.
14 posted on 05/15/2005 12:06:51 AM PDT by Bullish
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To: CHARLITE

But don't you know it is the Christians who are the bad people. Just look at the recent court rulings. Have you ever seen a ruling that went against the Muslims? I haven't.


15 posted on 05/15/2005 12:17:07 AM PDT by taxesareforever
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To: CHARLITE

"Also in 1985, Americans got their first glimpse into the soul of the enemy when Islamic terrorists took over the cruise ship Achilles Lauro and shot a crippled American Jew in a wheelchair, Leon Klinghoffer, and then pushed him overboard."

Don't forget, the muslim arab terrorist that did this deed was living in Baghdad with impunity, in the runup to our invasion of Iraq.

Saddam, indeed Iraq, was harboring this terrorist. Against Bush'w warning.


16 posted on 05/15/2005 12:30:02 AM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: CHARLITE
Perhaps this article needs to be emailed to CAIR. Perhaps it needs to be sent about every 5 minutes to those flaming Moo morons.

cair@cair-net.org

17 posted on 05/15/2005 12:39:01 AM PDT by Hank Rearden (Never allow anyone who could only get a government job attempt to tell you how to run your life.)
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To: CHARLITE

Thank you for posting this-My immediate next action is to E-mail Barbara Stock to thank her for writing it.

de Buillion


18 posted on 05/15/2005 12:42:59 AM PDT by de Buillion (Jerusalem, 1099)
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To: CHARLITE
Now we are at war again. This time with an enemy that has no borders, no country, no government, and no recognizable army.

**Sigh** Then it's not a "war." Look up the definition. Anyone who seriously talks about a "war on terror" (or a war on poverty or drugs) should be led by the hand to a nice quiet room where he can't harm anyone.

This, of course, brings us to the attack on September 11, 2001.

Wasn't our own beloved C.I.A. funding Al Qaeda at one time? Why doesn't anyone ever mention that? And if they do, it's under the stealth cover of euphimisms like "blowback." Is there something intrinsically patriotic about forgetting the ham-fisted and blunderous doings of the C.I.A.?

Islam seems to have no limit to the evil it will inflict on others.

Wasn't there a Christian nation that dropped two nuclear bombs on civilian targets? Nevermind.

Barbara J. Stock is a registered nurse who enjoys writing about politics and current events.

When she's not standing at busy intersections and screaming at the traffic.

19 posted on 05/15/2005 12:57:28 AM PDT by Petronius (Hunter: Shine On You Crazy Diamond!)
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To: CHARLITE
The so-called "neoconservative" strategy (which is actually old-fashioned Wilsonian foreign policy) that the Bush Administration has endorsed as the most gentle means to wage the War on Terror over the long-term, is to democratize Islamic thugocracies.

We hope that will lead to human rights and respect for the lives of Non-Muslims.

The danger is that even if democratic institutions are instituted, Islamists will get elected to office (just as the Nazis were freely elected into office in Germany) and the region will deteriorate and become more dangerous as they acquire weapons of mass destruction, and terrorist groups thrive with the sanction of the Islamic governments, as in the former Iraq and (former?) Pakistan and Libya, and present day Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, etc.

This article argues that we need to more ASSERTIVE in our democratization, because our apologetics legitimize the demands of Islamists in the name of "political correctness". In other words, we need to hold these regions to the same standards of respect for law and order that we hold ourselves and other democracies, not condescend to moral relativism for the sake of appeasement.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.
20 posted on 05/15/2005 1:01:34 AM PDT by stradivarius ("If a donkey brays at you, don't bray at him." - George Herbert)
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To: CHARLITE; All

The entire West ( dare I say "the civilized World?" ) is locked in a fight to the death with militant Islam.

There will be no second-place winner, no "third way" solution-- it is March or Die time, folks.

It is Us versus an eighth-century "culture" of plunder & pillage, forced religious "conversions," and the mistreatment of women.

The sooner we face up to this fact realistically and quit dancing around PC talking-point nonsense about diversity and tolerance, the better off we'll all be.

We did not pick this fight- which really has roots in Jimmy Carter's appeasement in 1979 of militants- but we had damned well better see it for what it is, and be prepared to face it and finish it.

I'll put it in raw, personal terms-- I don't want Sharia law visited upon my women, and I don't want a goat-roper "culture" infesting my land.

I don't want their vile, nasty, loathsome weapons of mass destruction loosed upon my fair country, either.

They picked the fight, and now it is up to us to finish it- balls to the wall, hammer and anvil, fire and blood and iron... freedom is never, ever free, and the coin you pay it in is men's lives and tears and blood.

What we saw during Gulf War I was our military doctrine ( high tech ) versus Soviet doctrine ( throw a lot of low tech iron at the problem )-- and we all know how that turned out.

What we saw in the 3-Week War is Information-Tech,
( What some are calling it Hyperwarfare... )
or 21st Century warfare versus 20th Century...

What I would suggest, and call your attention to, is the fact that we, and Israel, are capable of waging 21st Century warfare, and the entire Arab world is not.

Proven fact, by recent events.

One more thing- this will be a war where we are all called to be warriors- so I suggest to you that the time has come to get hard, and stay hard... it really is the time for Fire and Blood and Iron...


Islam, The Alleged Religion of Peace® ( TARP™ )? Click this picture:

No, I am not exaggerating. Click the pic, go to "last," and read backwards.
If you aren't informed about this stuff, you will be made sick. If you are informed, you will be made mad, all over again.

21 posted on 05/15/2005 1:05:48 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: DB
"That's all well and good, but if you declare war on all Muslims things will far worse for us in Iraq, Afghanistan among other places. Put simply it's foolish. "

DB, your reply is somewhat foolish to me. It is not whether WE declare war on all muslims, the war has already been declared by OBL when he hit the WTC in 1993. Put simply, It's NOT foolish. We can prevail over these muslims. We can and will take these terrorists out. God Bless our Troops!

22 posted on 05/15/2005 1:20:17 AM PDT by de Buillion (Jerusalem, 1099)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Petronius

F.U.


24 posted on 05/15/2005 1:27:08 AM PDT by de Buillion (Jerusalem, 1099)
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To: de Buillion
OBL doesn't represent all Muslims.

Openly declaring Islam the enemy would be a disaster for us overnight. Too bad you can't see that.
25 posted on 05/15/2005 1:32:19 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: de Buillion

You won't last long here if you keep that up.


26 posted on 05/15/2005 1:33:29 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: velocityguy; All
Latest on the issue of the Quran desecration.

Submission of the Infidels

27 posted on 05/15/2005 1:34:42 AM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: DB

I totally disagree with you. He is the Symbolic leader of many/most/all muslims. And Islam, and ALL muslims are our enemy, whether your PC BS allows you to realize it or not. Too bad you can't see that.


28 posted on 05/15/2005 1:45:19 AM PDT by de Buillion (Jerusalem, 1099)
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To: DB
OBL doesn't represent all Muslims.

Actually, he does.

OBL adheres to the strict literal interpretation of the Quran. (Kindly take note that the Quran unlike The Bible is believed to be the exact word of God) ~ In other words, OBL follows God's word which is something that all Muslims aspire to do.

If I get some time a bit later I'll do my best to explain further how he is viewed by so called moderates.

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

29 posted on 05/15/2005 1:45:51 AM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Petronius

I don't believe that this nation is required to "declare war" after it has been attacked. A state of war exists after we have been attacked, what part of this don't you get? And don't call me junior, Shirley.


31 posted on 05/15/2005 1:59:05 AM PDT by de Buillion (Jerusalem, 1099)
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To: A_Conservative_Chinese

Well, if (G-d forbid) they launch a nuke or an atmospheric EM device I suggest levelling that Borg cube which stands in the middle of Mecca. That'll piss 'em off and bring 'em out where we can find them and take them out for good...SSZ


32 posted on 05/15/2005 2:04:50 AM PDT by szweig
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To: Petronius

After reading your FR homepage, I have to ask, why are you here? Shouldn't you be on D.U. or moveon.org?


33 posted on 05/15/2005 2:06:29 AM PDT by de Buillion (Jerusalem, 1099)
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To: de Buillion
"After reading your FR homepage, I have to ask, why are you here? Shouldn't you be on D.U. or moveon.org?"

ROFLMAO!

Right on target!

Do you smell ozone and brimstone?



34 posted on 05/15/2005 2:30:56 AM PDT by stradivarius ("If a donkey brays at you, don't bray at him." - George Herbert)
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To: de Buillion
Oh, I keep forgetting: conservative = Republican, even if the current republican at the helm is doing a damn good impression of Woodrow Wilson.

You're mistaking FR for an echo chamber, apparently. Some folks think "neoconservatives" aren't conservatives at all.

Shouldn't you be on D.U.

This is a conservative forum; that's a liberal forum. Query: how do _you_ demarcate the boundaries? Is it an entirely a function of views on Iraq? It used to have to do with a visceral distrust of big government and the conviction that tradition trumps reason. Times change, eh?

35 posted on 05/15/2005 2:43:16 AM PDT by Petronius (Hunter: Shine On You Crazy Diamond!)
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To: expatguy

Kind of like how Jerry Falwell represents all Christians?


36 posted on 05/15/2005 3:30:32 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: DB

I worked with 13 muzzies around 9-11. Half thought America deserved it. The other half were indifferent at best. Running em up a flag pole doesnt sound too bad to me!!!


37 posted on 05/15/2005 3:32:01 AM PDT by Luigi Vasellini (60% of Saudis, 58%of Iraqis, 55%of Kuwaitis,50% of Jordanians married 1st or 2nd cousins. LOL!!!)
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To: de Buillion

It's not PC, it's practical.

How old are you anyway?

Just curious.


38 posted on 05/15/2005 3:32:31 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: Luigi Vasellini

Well on an emotional level that sound good. But on a practical working level it's a whole different matter.


39 posted on 05/15/2005 3:33:48 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: de Buillion; Petronius

Me thinks the idiot petronius is a big Michael Moore fan


40 posted on 05/15/2005 3:36:51 AM PDT by Luigi Vasellini (60% of Saudis, 58%of Iraqis, 55%of Kuwaitis,50% of Jordanians married 1st or 2nd cousins. LOL!!!)
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To: CHARLITE

Ditto! Islam is evil...and MO is a FALSE PROPHET!


41 posted on 05/15/2005 3:37:01 AM PDT by Toughy (Arianna to wed Nellie Oleson!)
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To: DB

Large numbers are here and they hate us!! They need to be rounded up


42 posted on 05/15/2005 3:44:43 AM PDT by Luigi Vasellini (60% of Saudis, 58%of Iraqis, 55%of Kuwaitis,50% of Jordanians married 1st or 2nd cousins. LOL!!!)
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To: Petronius
Wasn't there a Christian nation that dropped two nuclear bombs on civilian targets? Nevermind.

Nevermind, because it wasn't a Christian nation who dropped the bombs, but a democrat President. Tkaes a scholar like you to confuse the two, huh?

Not that the Dem was wrong to end the war or anything (thus saving more lives), but...nevermind.

...aren't you forgetting something: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

And just how does this mean Islam is NOT evil?

Oh, and your interpretation of the First Amendment would seem allow satanists to go on sacrificing two year olds, just as it allows these wonderful Muslims to kill.

43 posted on 05/15/2005 3:45:22 AM PDT by Toughy (If you love Islam so much, go to Mecca...and STAY there!)
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To: Luigi Vasellini

You do realize that it is possible to be a staunch conservative while being opposed to the Iraq War, don't you?


44 posted on 05/15/2005 3:45:30 AM PDT by Wormwood (Iš! Iš! Cthulhu fhtagn!)
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To: Luigi Vasellini
Me thinks the idiot petronius is a big Michael Moore fan

Me thinks petronius IS Michael Moore.

45 posted on 05/15/2005 3:46:16 AM PDT by Toughy (If you love Islam so much, go to Mecca...and STAY there!)
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To: Wormwood
You do realize that it is possible to be a staunch conservative while being opposed to the Iraq War, don't you?

That is a theoretical possibility. But one cannot be a staunch Christian/Jesus follower, and not realize that Islam is evil.

46 posted on 05/15/2005 3:48:17 AM PDT by Toughy (If you love Islam so much, go to Mecca...and STAY there!)
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To: Wormwood

Yes, but I'm very suspicious when the same argument that michael Moore uses is used by a "conservative"!


47 posted on 05/15/2005 3:51:15 AM PDT by Luigi Vasellini (60% of Saudis, 58%of Iraqis, 55%of Kuwaitis,50% of Jordanians married 1st or 2nd cousins. LOL!!!)
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To: Luigi Vasellini

Under what law?

What about the that peski thing called the constitution?


48 posted on 05/15/2005 3:59:14 AM PDT by DB (©)
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To: CHARLITE

Barbara Stock tells it like it is. No PC nonsense. Our approach to Islamofascism is directly linked to our attitude toward the UN and for the same reason. Everything is appearance and nuance. Don't offend, even if they're chopping off your head or raping your children. It's madness, and people like John Kerry and his wife, Fat Teddy, Hillary, Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, and the MSM have the means to flee to the Caymans or Aruba if things get sticky, leaving the rest of us in flyover country to mop up the mess. I wonder if John Kerry had won and a Muslim bomber blew him to kingdom come, would that outrage the MSM? What would it actually take for them to face reality? We are at war and it's akin to that Monty Python skit where the knight is chopped to pieces and continues to threaten annihilation.


49 posted on 05/15/2005 3:59:45 AM PDT by hershey
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To: Toughy

There's a difference between worshiping Satan and killing people.

The first is legal and the second isn't.

The first is protected by the first ammendendement the second is not.

And you already know that...


50 posted on 05/15/2005 4:04:29 AM PDT by DB (©)
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