Posted on 05/16/2005 3:35:42 AM PDT by SteveH
Actually, there have been other clues to Chinese visitation of the Americas in the Ancient World:
1. Ancient Central american jade carvings found in various places in Mexico and the Southwest that seem to depict oriental looking people.
2. A mess of round, hollowed out stones found off the coats of Washington or Oregon, which some have theorized might have been used as ballast stones or anchors.
3. Renditions of dragons in Central american art.
Granted, that's pretty weak evidence on it's face, but it does not preclude the possibility that he Chinese did come here. However, it was common Chinese practice to rewrite official history on an Emperor's whim, destroy records that were considered politically dangerous, and to forbid travel beyond the borders of Imperial China, so, the truth may never be known.
Zheng He, by the way, was apparently a busy guy. The few survivng, reliable records have him travelling all over Southeast Asia by sea. His voyages revolved around demonstrating Chinese benevolence by delivering gifts all over the continent. If he's the guy that did "bump into" America, it must have been a hell of a storm or navigation error that did it --- the Chinese were not much on exploration. Their voyages centered more on reiforcing China's image as the center of the universe --- if you're going to do that, you go to known places, you don't go off in search of the unknown.
A good source of information on this kind of stuff is a book entitled "The Discoverers" by Daniel Boorstein. Zheng He's voyages are given quite a lot of ink in there.
That would put a Clovis spear through the hypothesis' of Jared Diamond in "Guns, Germs and Steel." Opposition is probably the least of what Ms. Rees will encounter.
You are aware that the Chicoms have used less evidence than this to "reunite" a "breakaway province" before. :)
"Whether Zheng He sailed to America, Rees points to evidence that one-quarter million Chinese went to sea about 1100 B.C. at the end of the Shang Dynasty, and most never came back. If you look at Olmec writing, some of the characters seem virtually identical to Chinese. She said she believes the Olmec - the ancient people of Mexico - were Chinese."
Do the ethnic olmec still exist, or their descendants? If so, DNA testing of them or the ethnic people living in their historical area might provide some clues about this.
A lot more seafaring happend. The miration to Australia 560,000 years ago makes that clear.
The earth isn't that old.
Wrong. The rise in sea level far exceeded the "flotation" of tectonic plates. Evidence is the MANY sites they are finding along the extended river deltas in India, the far east, and around the world that were submerged by the rise of sea level.
The southern continents and plate edges may have been raised up because of the northern parts of the plates being pushed down. That would possibly explain that. Same for migration to Australia being much more recent due to all of Indonesia being much higher. As the glaciers melted and the northern contenets springing back up, the southern plates went back down. Think of the earth as a liquid filled ball. Push in one area, another has to rise.
The Portuguese discovered the Azores in the early 1420's. The Azores are west of Portugal some 800 miles out in the Atlantic. It's thought Spanish & Portuguese fishermen were fishing the Grand Banks off Newfoundland even earlier than 1420. In any case Columbus knew he wasn't in any jeopardy of sailing off the edge of the world when he set sail westward from Cadiz in 1492.
I was thinking of anything on northern continents when I made that first post, So thinking about it, and to prove your observation of ancient ruins being under water, this makes more sense. The sea water isn't raising, it's plate movement as the earth maintains it's globe shape.
Lief Ericson beat them both to North America!!!!!
This makes sense the American Indians obviously learned scalping from the Chinese and it's also the reason they used chopsticks up until 1492, when the fork was imported.
I think so too, at least as far as North America is concerned.
Vikings were fishing off the coast of Newfie land long before the Portuguese and Spanish. There are old viking burial sites all along the Nelson river, so they were well into the Hudsons bay exploring, not just off the coast, fishing. They were bored of fishing by that time, and set off exploring :o)
"A lot more seafaring happend. The miration to Australia 560,000 years ago makes that clear."
I must have been on drugs when I wrote that.
"A lot more seafaring happend. The migration to Australia 50,000 years ago makes that clear."
Interesting correlation to an account in the Book of Mormon of a group that migrated to the Americas around 2200 B.C. LDS scholar Dr. Hugh Nibley examined historical, anthropological, and archaeological similarities in his book:
Lehi in the Desert/The World of the Jaredites/There Were Jaredites, Vol 5; Deseret Books; ISBN 0875791328 (Hardcover, 1988)
GW
I've never heard that one before, North American Indians using chop sticks? Honestly, I have lived around northern Indian reserves all my life and have never heard that one before.
Well it started to stop in 1492 so you wouldn't see it today.
Still too old. I'd say around 1000 b.c. or even later
Ah so!!
I hear alot of folklore, and haven't heard such a thing. Maybe
you are talking about a different kind of Indian, maybe the inca (?) from way south?
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