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Ambassador To US Visits Pollard
The Jerusalem Post ^ | May 17, 2005

Posted on 05/17/2005 1:25:32 PM PDT by Cecily

Israel's Ambassador to the United States Danny Ayalon met Jonathon Pollard in his cell in a North Carolina prison for the first time Tuesday.

It was the first official visit by an Israeli government representative since Pollard's incarceration some 19 years ago.

Sources in the embassy said that Ayalon was bringing a message of support and encouragement from Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Army Radio reported.

(Excerpt) Read more at jpost.com ...


TOPICS: Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: pollard
Whatever happened to Pollard's first wife? She knew what he was doing and enjoyed the money they received too.
1 posted on 05/17/2005 1:25:33 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Cecily

Why is this visit allowed?


2 posted on 05/17/2005 1:27:10 PM PDT by konaice
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To: konaice

The article says that his recent petition for prisoner of Zion status was meant to generate some attention, and it did.


3 posted on 05/17/2005 1:33:34 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Cecily

When I read the title I thought you'd misspelled "Poland".

Last I heard, his wife Esther was over in Jerusalem on a hunger strike. She said she wouldn't eat until her husband was released. That was about 10 years ago. If she's a woman of her word we have to assume that she starved to death.


4 posted on 05/17/2005 1:35:00 PM PDT by Jaysun (No matter how hot she is, some man, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t)
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To: konaice
From the story
As a result of previous legal action in Israel, Pollard was given Israeli citizenship in 1996 and later officially recognized as an Israeli agent.

So they admit his guilt...

Pollard's petition also included claims that he was subject to "cruel" mistreatment and torture during his years in prison.

Oh sure, likely story. He has all the hot-button words down pat doesn't he...

In spite of all the aid and support we give Isreal they still spy on us. Now they want to start visiting their partner in crime in prision? Whats up with that? Why is he given the opportunity to associate with his co-conspirators? Declare prisions off limits to foreign meddeling and be done with it.

Pollard can rot.

5 posted on 05/17/2005 1:41:25 PM PDT by konaice
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To: konaice

You know, like most Americans I am a supporter of the State of Israel. It would just be so much easier defending them against all the pro-Palestinian idiots if they (Israel) would stop spying on us. Seems like every 2-3 years there is some new scandal which is quickly swept under the rug.


6 posted on 05/17/2005 2:05:41 PM PDT by happyathome
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To: happyathome

More than $100 billion in aid and loan guarantees and not a single friend outside the United States. They need to stick to their own business.


7 posted on 05/17/2005 2:11:27 PM PDT by laconic
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To: happyathome

I am not defending their actions, but one reason they (Israel, not Pollard, who did it for money) do it is because history has taught them many painful lessons about leaving their fate in the hands of any Gentiles.


8 posted on 05/17/2005 2:14:39 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: konaice
A postulation in another very recent post said that it's to reassure all the other spies for Israel that they will
not be abandoned, if captured.

But I have no idea why access was given to a foreign nation to what was an American citizen at the times of his crimes
and conviction.

9 posted on 05/17/2005 2:15:24 PM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Cecily
I am not defending their actions, but one reason they (Israel, not Pollard, who did it for money) do it is because history has taught them many painful lessons about leaving their fate in the hands of any Gentiles.

Funny how Israel always seems to have just enough faith in these "Gentiles" to cash the checks we send them.

10 posted on 05/17/2005 3:18:39 PM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but lord I'm free.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Since Israel turns around and buys military equipment from us with the bulk of it, we can't complain. They are supporting our economy.


11 posted on 05/17/2005 3:30:51 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Cecily
And history also shows that such an attitude alienates many Gentiles and damages Israel's friendships and alliances. If Israel truly thinks that they are alone, they ought to give up the billions of aid we send them every year and all claims on American support.
12 posted on 05/17/2005 4:02:12 PM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Cecily
... Pollard, who did it for money ...

I'd appreciate some credible proof of it.

13 posted on 05/19/2005 7:19:19 AM PDT by Words
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To: Rockingham
If Israel truly thinks that they are alone, they ought to give up the billions of aid we send them every year and all claims on American support.

The question is can the US defence industry afford losing the US govt. socialist handouts and Israeli brainpower?

14 posted on 05/19/2005 7:44:39 AM PDT by Words
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To: Words

Israel's economy would swiftly tank without US aid. Their scientific and technical talent would soon become available for hire in the US on favorable terms.

Egypt similarly depends on US aid, the difference with Israel being that there is relatively little human talent in Egypt.


15 posted on 05/19/2005 10:50:50 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Words

I can't remember the name of the book, but I read the story in a book about espionage, and the book was credible to me (it wasn't one of the books by Victor Ostrovsky, and I don't think it was in "Gideon's Spies" by Gordon Thomas).


16 posted on 05/19/2005 12:26:10 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Rockingham
Israel's economy would swiftly tank without US aid.

I don't think so. It will crash the socialism-thumping Labor in Israel, though, not that I care much about them. Israel may dust off old projects suppressed by US administrations. The market is big.
But what would the US defence industry do without the socialist handouts of the govt.? I guess, they will be secured by boosting supplies to the "friends", who vote against the US 95% of the time in the UN and lamenting (sanctioning) "unfaithful" Israel, while srewing it.

17 posted on 05/20/2005 2:11:13 AM PDT by Words
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To: Words
I had better explain myself in detail here because US-Israeli relations are so prone to emotion and controversy and the Pollard case is a particular flash point.

The US arms budget is large, but concessionary US arms sales to Israel and other military aid is but a small part of it. Money that would be saved if the US ended such aid to Israel would easily be consumed by other defense needs with little discomfort to the industry.

Calling the US defense industry socialistic is silly. The industry depends on and is bound to serve the interests of its prime customer, the US military. That makes for a lot of lobbying, influence peddling, and heavy restrictions by the government, all common attributes of socialism. Nevertheless, the US defense industry is capitalist in the key criteria that ownership and the flow of profits are in private hands.

US foreign aid has various purposes, but the overriding one is that US interests are served in some fashion, even in assistance to organizations and countries that do not like us. The rationales are case specific.

Egypt, a country that does not like the US, gets US support for one prime reason: to buy relative peace for Israel. In that sense, US aid to Egypt is an extension of US support for Israel and its tenuous peace with Egypt. A serious effort to terminate US aid to Egypt would be strongly opposed by Israel.

A free market Israel in a peaceful Middle East could go it alone economically without US aid. But Israel has a tightly controlled socialistic economy, and since Zionism was expressly formulated as socialistic and modern Judaism has a strong attachment to socialism, Israel is unlikely to embrace free market capitalism. Even in a peaceful Middle East, a socialist Israel would be regularly asking for US aid.

Of course, the Middle East is not peaceful and is unlikely to become so in the foreseeable future. Without billions of dollars per year in military and economic aid from the US, socialist Israel would not last long because the strain of paying for its defense would run the country into bankruptcy within a few years.

Israel is a substantial net burden to the US. If Israel did not exist, US relations with the Muslim world would be easier and the US could more easily play its cards as a superpower to pick and chose allies and enemies in the Muslim world according to our interests.

George Marshall, the revered top WWII general and US Secretary of State at the time of Israel's creation, was fiercely opposed to US recognition of Israel because he foresaw that it would be a strategic complication and burden to the US. The USSR is believed to have recognized Israel in part because Arab-Israeli conflict would be useful to Soviet efforts to court friends in the Muslim world -- and so it was.

These calculations incline more than a few Americans to resent Israel and to wish that the US would cut off support and get the best terms available for ourselves from the Muslim world. But I am adamantly pro-Israel. Not only does Israel exist and should exist, but the US has a moral and strategic obligation to support Israel as a fellow democracy. Israel's existence spurs conflict with the Muslim world, but the prime cause of such conflict is not Israel but the vile pathologies of Islam and of Arab societies.

What I find galling from Israel are those instances in which it does direct harm to the US: the Pollard case (Israel spying on the US and negating billions of dollars worth of intelligence capacity essential to US security); the attack on the Liberty (Israel deliberately attacking a US naval vessel and causing dozens of American casualties); and arms sales and intelligence cooperation with China (which means that China is using Israeli military equipment, technology, and intelligence against America). There are even some unresolved reports that suggest Israel knew that 9/11 was coming and preferred to let the attack proceed so as to benefit from US action against Muslim terrorists.

For all the dedication and shrewdness of Israel's military and intelligence agencies, they are reckless at times in seeking advantages where fundamental good sense urges that American patience should not be risked beyond its natural limits. If the left wing of the US Democratic party comes back into power -- which is always a possibility -- Israel would soon find itself pressed hard to make fatal accommodations with her Muslim neighbors.

Clinton did that, more for his ego than anything else, but post 9/11, the American Left back in power would seek a de facto abandonment of Israel for the sake of an American peace with Islam. A fully energized right wing of the Republican Party would be essential to preventing that, but the accumulated antagonisms generated by the Pollard case and other episodes of Israeli overreaching would weaken and perhaps disable such opposition.

Although those episodes are relatively obscure for now, a liberal Democratic administration could easily stir them to prominence by releasing new information about them. That was done by the Clinton administration as to the Pollard case in the aftermath of the collapse of the Wye River Plantation deal. Israel got a lot of bad press in consequence. It took weeks before Arafat's turn down of the deal was made clear.

The Bush administration is strongly pro-Israel -- but Israel's arms deals with China have recently led to a downgrading of US defense cooperation on a range of projects. Is loyalty to Pollard or arms deals with China worth gravely damaging Israel's relationship with the US? As a supporter of Israel, I think not -- and I wish that Israel's leaders were of the same opinion.
18 posted on 05/20/2005 10:00:15 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Cecily

Is there any truth to the claims that information passed along by Pollard ended up in Soviet hands, and American operatives in Russia were identified and executed as a result? If that's true, why is Pollard allowed to live?


19 posted on 05/26/2005 5:45:34 AM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff

I have never read that his espionage went that far, and it is never mentioned in stories about him.


20 posted on 05/26/2005 6:49:54 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Cecily
it is never mentioned in stories about him."""

If you google, I think you'll find reports that this is exactly what Caspar Weinberger was royally angry about -- that the info went from Pollard to his handlers and eventually was sold to Soviets. There are reports out there to this effect. Certainly SOMETHING persuaded Weinberger and the intelligence community to throw the book at this guy - - giving him, as his supporters point out, a sentence way beyond normal for what Pollard claims to have done.

21 posted on 05/26/2005 7:59:34 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff

Here are two excerpts about Pollard from "Gideon's Spies" by Gordon Thomas. The claims are not footnoted, so take what he writes as you will:

"Rafi Eitan quickly obtained a clear picture of U.S. intelligence-gathering methods, not only in the Middle East, but in South Africa. Pollard had provided reports from CIA operatives which provided a blueprint for the entire U.S. intelligence network within the country. One document contained a detailed account of how South Africa had managed to detonate a nuclear device on September 14, 1979, in the southern end of the Indian Ocean. The Pretoria government had steadfastly denied it had become a nuclear power. Rafi Eitan arranged for Mossad to pass over copies of all material relating to South Africa to Pretoria, virtually destroying the CIA network. Twelve operatives were forced to hurriedly leave the county."

"During the next eleven months, Jonathan Pollard continued to asset-strip U.S. intelligence. Over one thousand highly classified documents, 360 cubic feet of paper, were transmitted to Israel."

and in a section about Yitzhak Shamir's supposed hatred of the United States (he considered the US partially responsible for the Holocaust):

"Nonsensical as the idea was, it had colored Shamir's views of the United States to the point of near hatred. He had personally authorized, 'as a gesture of goodwill'(another favorite phrase of Shamir's) to pass on to the Soviet Union a portion of the estimated five hundred thousand pages of documents Jonathan Pollard had stolen. Shamir hoped this would improve Israel's relationship with Moscow. The documents included current U.S. intelligence on Soviet air defenses and the CIA's annual review of the entire Russian capability to make war. One document included satellite photographs, communication intercepts, radar intelligence, and reports from CIA agents in the Soviet Union. When Shamir had been told by Nahum Admoni that the data would almost certainly enable Soviet counterintelligence to discover the spies, he had reportedly shrugged."


22 posted on 05/29/2005 5:10:26 PM PDT by Cecily
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To: Rockingham

You have made a very well-written post regarding the subject, thanks.


23 posted on 06/03/2005 9:00:03 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: churchillbuff

"Certainly SOMETHING persuaded Weinberger and the intelligence community to throw the book at this guy - - giving him, as his supporters point out, a sentence way beyond normal for what Pollard claims to have done."

Agreed, while obviously none of us know what pollard did or didn't do, and what israel did or didn't do with it, the US response to it was so extreme that I cannot imagine it was the 'old chemical weapons secrets in muslim countries' secrets that israel claims.

The theory you mention certainly would fit how he was sentenced, as well as israel's continued efforts to get him freed.


24 posted on 06/03/2005 9:01:34 PM PDT by WoofDog123
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To: Cecily
"During the next eleven months, Jonathan Pollard continued to asset-strip U.S. intelligence. Over one thousand highly classified documents, 360 cubic feet of paper, were transmitted to Israel."

If the 11 months rounded up to a year, this is about 1 cubic foot per day, 7 days a week. A weekly meeting would have required carrying about 7.5 cubic feed per week. Did Pollard drive a front-end loader?

Light weight paper is .025 lb per cubic inch; that means 7.5*1728*.025 or 324 lbs per week. Even Sandy Berger couldn't stuff that much in his pants. It would be noticed. Of course, maybe it was; Pollard is in prison.

25 posted on 06/03/2005 9:25:50 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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