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Rotary Clock Discovered in Bacteria
www.creationsafaris.com ^ | 05/17/05 | Creation Evolution Headlines

Posted on 05/18/2005 11:23:17 AM PDT by DannyTN

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To: whd23
Using calculus you can determine the flight path of a ball thrown to you and calculate the intercept point, but that's not how people catch objects in flight.

Catching a ball is reactive. I place my hand where I see the ball is going to be. The bees are not reacting. Their "decision" to set the displacement at 35% must be made before they start - not after they see the ball in the air. It is a wholly different matter.

81 posted on 05/18/2005 2:17:11 PM PDT by Pete
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To: DannyTN
I don't assume the bees do calculus but your use of the word "programmed" is appropriate

Just to clarify, the calculus I was referring to comes into play when setting the displacement of the pointed tetrahedral apex (on the hidden part of the comb) so that the surface area is minimized - not on the choice of a hexagon (although that minimizes as well).

82 posted on 05/18/2005 2:19:54 PM PDT by Pete
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To: whd23
Just because there is a mathematical way to solve a problem does not mean that every solution to that problem was done mathematically.

An even more interesting question is why anything a mathematician develops theoretically in his head should have any application in the real world. For example, sitting at my desk using theoretical math, I could calculate what displacement in a pointed tetrahedral apex would result in a minimum service area. The fact that the result of such theoretical work could be observed in the real world was described by Einstein as a "miracle".

83 posted on 05/18/2005 2:24:59 PM PDT by Pete
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To: thoughtomator

I wonder if cancer cells have this kind of clock!


84 posted on 05/18/2005 2:27:50 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: Right Wing Professor
Exactly how did you know that, hmmm?

The "eagle has landed"! We're with you. Stand up, take four steps backward, look straight up, your assignment is revealed in the pattern of the ceiling popcorn.

Get back to us when you have accomplished your assignment. :-)

85 posted on 05/18/2005 2:29:34 PM PDT by bondserv (Creation sings a song of praise, Declaring the wonders of Your ways †)
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To: Right Wing Professor

I remember going over the origins of life exhibit at the Smithsonian Natural History Museum ("Elephant Building" to us natives). Thirty years ago, I only wanted to look at the dinosaurs of course. The study of microfossils is a fascinating subject that it seems no scientists can really agree on. Fossil stromatolites and algal mats are undeniable but it seems one can never be quite sure if itty-bitty dot-structures in a slice of shale or chert qualify as life or mineral grains.


86 posted on 05/18/2005 2:30:24 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: Pete
Catching a ball is reactive. I place my hand where I see the ball is going to be. The bees are not reacting. Their "decision" to set the displacement at 35% must be made before they start - not after they see the ball in the air. It is a wholly different matter.

No it is not, and if you can't see that there's no point in continuing. You keep on believing that bees do calculus.

87 posted on 05/18/2005 3:26:36 PM PDT by whd23
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To: DannyTN; Yaelle; Dog Gone; Robert A. Cook, PE; Monkey Face; LibertarianInExile; tnlibertarian; ...

Can someone give me a hand with this one? I don't have much time. But I think some good things will germinate on this one, as this is an infectious find. So lets get our Freepun staph to work on this one. Stop watching TB and lets ferment
some good ones here. But remember not to get too strepped out doing it. Tempis fugit.


88 posted on 05/18/2005 3:39:57 PM PDT by Rennes Templar ("The future ain't what it used to be".........Yogi Berra)
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To: Rennes Templar

This one's a tough cell, Rennes. Tempis fugit, you say? Yes, time really flu by. And how did you know I was watching TB? For your information, it was an old "Dick Van Dyke Show" about the Petrie family.


89 posted on 05/18/2005 4:03:20 PM PDT by speedy
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To: DannyTN
This is no big deal.

Anything you might discover in my kid's room would be in bacteria.

90 posted on 05/18/2005 4:06:22 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; ohioWfan; Fiddlstix; mikeus_maximus; johnnyb_61820; Aquinasfan; ...

ping


91 posted on 05/18/2005 4:12:15 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Mr. Lucky
"Anything you might discover in my kid's room would be in bacteria."

Well, I can understand the two day old half eaten cheese sandwich. But the toy incredibles car with removeable action figure and fireable torpedoes is gonna take some explaining.

But I'm sure it's no big deal. Obviously the toy car is here, so it must have evolved. 200 million years ago it was G.I. Joe Jeep.

92 posted on 05/18/2005 4:15:28 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: speedy

Don't be cilia. I don't see this as a very fertile breeding ground for puns. Amaeboe splittin' pretty soon but I'm sure a few of you clockwatchers will be here all night moldering over this topic. On the one hand, I would think that you could get rid of these clock germs with just a little Dial soap, but then again, they may take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. I guess only time will tell, and we'll just have to watch. Tocking about it isn't going to solve anything, and you'd have to be cuckoo to think it might.


93 posted on 05/18/2005 4:22:42 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack; speedy

...That's just my humble opinion...on the face of it.


94 posted on 05/18/2005 4:23:56 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack

It's a very minute point, but I second everything you said.


95 posted on 05/18/2005 6:15:10 PM PDT by speedy
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To: speedy

I told you this thread would wind down quickly like a broken clock. It looks like the others in hour group just don't want to baccillus up. Sometimes I honestly wonder what makes them tick. I think I'm just going to leave out a big eon and go punch out....


96 posted on 05/18/2005 6:22:31 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack
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To: Joe 6-pack
I told you this thread would wind down quickly like a broken clock.

Hey, what did you expect? It is a one-day(night) clock.

97 posted on 05/18/2005 7:27:36 PM PDT by AndrewC (the despotism of an oligarchy)
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To: Ichneumon
Similarly, the "dome" on each one will be the "approximately 35% of the length of the side of the hexagon", as you decribe it, which "results in a local minimum on the area". It's just the way the surface tension forces work out, the molecules don't have to "do calculus". And neither do the bees.

Do you have a pointer to the specifics of how the honeycomb within the hive gets built? Local thermodynamic minima are all very nice, but without accounting for the energy barriers to reconfiguration (e.g. how viscous is the wax when it is first laid down? how close to the equilibrium configuration is it at that point? how quickly does it solidify?) you may be oversimplifying the picture.

Cheers!

98 posted on 05/18/2005 7:43:15 PM PDT by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: martin_fierro

"This spud's for you!"


99 posted on 05/18/2005 10:24:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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To: Junior
Pressures from surrounding cells drives the formation of the hexagonal honey comb.

Duh. how does the FIRST cell start?

(Or do E types have no theory for bee'swaxigenesis?)

100 posted on 05/18/2005 10:32:04 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
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