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Md. cardinal to boycott Giuliani speech (Life issue)
AP ^ | 5-18-05

Posted on 05/18/2005 9:33:07 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan

Md. cardinal to boycott Giuliani speech
5/18/2005, 11:11 p.m. ET
The Associated Press

BALTIMORE (AP) — Cardinal William Keeler will not attend a Jesuit university commencement because keynote speaker Rudolph Giuliani, a Catholic, supports abortion rights, an official said Wednesday.

Giuliani, the Republican former New York City mayor mentioned as a possible candidate for president in 2008, is expected to award some 1,600 degrees and certificates at Friday's commencement at Loyola College of Maryland.

He also is to receive an honorary degree.

Friday's graduating class entered the school one week before the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, said Loyola spokesman Mark Kelly.

"The attacks had a huge effect on this class, many of whom are from New York," Kelly said late Wednesday. "The college selected Mayor Giuliani because of his courage and leadership after the attacks."

Kelly added Loyola does not agree with every position held by every speaker.

Keeler could not be reached for comment Wednesday night. His spokesman did not elaborate on the decision, but confirmed it was because of Giuliani's abortion stance.

The Cardinal Newman Society is planning protests, the group said in a statement.

The society is protesting speakers and honorees at 18 Catholic college and universities, saying the invitations violate the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops statement last year asserting "Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles."

Earlier this week, New York Rep. Sherwood Boehlert, also a Catholic, canceled his speech to graduates of St. Elizabeth's College of Nursing after learning a bishop opposed his appearance. Boehlert said he did not want to draw attention from the graduation ceremony.

A spokeswoman for Giuliani did not immediately return phone calls.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: abortion; cary; catholicschools; commencement; guliani; keeler; life; rudy
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1 posted on 05/18/2005 9:33:08 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan
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To: Dan from Michigan

Hooray!


2 posted on 05/18/2005 9:37:02 PM PDT by IRememberElian
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To: Dan from Michigan

Can somebody tell me why the mayor is so revered for September 11,2001?

Is it only because he didn't start bawling? What did he actually do that day that makes people take him seriously as a Presidential candidate? I don't get it.


3 posted on 05/18/2005 9:38:23 PM PDT by Finalapproach29er (America is gradually becoming the Godless,out-of-control golden-calf scene,in "The Ten Commandments")
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To: firebrand; Coleus; Dan from Michigan

THIS is interesting!


4 posted on 05/18/2005 9:47:41 PM PDT by Calpernia (Breederville.com)
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To: Finalapproach29er; All

I hear you. He is doing some sort of motivational lecture series, and they refer to him as "America's Mayor".



A little OT, did anyone hear about this new movie on Showtime w/ Ted Danson , Bryan Dennehey. It's about the catholic church and the whole molestation thing. They are claiming 100k kids were molested, that sounds exxagerated to me....and knowing hollywood as I do makes me have all the more skepticism towards it. I think its interesting how these leftists can try to use that against the church, when they themselves are proponents of it ie NAMBLA/ACLU.


5 posted on 05/18/2005 9:47:52 PM PDT by Stellar Dendrite (Allen/DeLay '08!!)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Not only abortion but openly flaunting a girlfriend.


6 posted on 05/18/2005 9:48:48 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: cyborg

and a gun grabber too.


7 posted on 05/18/2005 9:49:15 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Spec.4 Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58

Yup! He was a great mayor (better than Bloomberg) but hardly the paragon of Catholic values. I wish the cardinal would have a sit down with Giuliani and ask him why he believes in murdering unborn babies.


8 posted on 05/18/2005 9:52:00 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: Finalapproach29er
Can somebody tell me why the mayor is so revered for September 11,2001?

It's not for anything he did on that day, but for what he did in the aftermath. He served as a good leader, held the city together and helped it rebuild. This is begrudgingly recognized even by people on the other side.

9 posted on 05/18/2005 9:52:31 PM PDT by rkhampton
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To: Finalapproach29er

I don't think he's presidential material BUT he held this city together. If I lived in NYC, I would have voted for him again.


10 posted on 05/18/2005 9:53:35 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: Finalapproach29er
What did he actually do that day that makes people take him seriously as a Presidential

He was a tough and fair prosecutor. Before he was mayor, NYC was very unsafe and close to bankruptcy. After he left, NYC was clean and very safe. I think murders dropped from 1600 per year to about 400. After 9-11, he was clear and resolute that NYC would not only survive, but thrive and he has been right. If not for prostate cancer, he dared to take on Hillary in a very blue state. Finally, he is upfront and like GW Bush, you may or may not like where he stands, but at least you know what he stands for.

On abortion, he is pro choice, but he certainly is not adamant about pushing that issue as an agenda. While I doubt he would nominate a supreme court justice who was pro life. He would not hesitate to nominate a justice who might overturn R v. W.

11 posted on 05/18/2005 9:54:49 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: Dan from Michigan

Boycotting respected speakers because of their views on abortion laws who will not be speaking about abortion seems excessive. I think that approach will backfire.


12 posted on 05/18/2005 9:56:13 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: cyborg
but openly flaunting a girlfriend

Yes, but open and honest I would rather have, and that is Guiliani.

13 posted on 05/18/2005 9:56:30 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: staytrue

I guess but if he cherished his family, shouldn't have happened at all :(


14 posted on 05/18/2005 9:57:36 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: staytrue

He's a great guy, especially to New Yorkers. But tell that to the unborn Brooklyn baby who's being ripped apart. You can't have it both ways, Rudy.


15 posted on 05/18/2005 9:58:16 PM PDT by steenkeenbadges
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To: cyborg

I guess nobody could speak at Catholic universities in France, or for that matter, much of Catholic Europe, where mistresses are common and accepted. I once had a French client who said he would not trust a politician who did not have a mistress.


16 posted on 05/18/2005 9:59:35 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie

Well it's still adultery no matter what the French do in France.


17 posted on 05/18/2005 10:01:01 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: cyborg

Ya, and in Europe, the Church looks the other way. Some rules are of interest to the Church, and some are not. It seems to depend on the facts on the ground, often.


18 posted on 05/18/2005 10:03:01 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie
Boycotting respected speakers because of their views on abortion laws who will not be speaking about abortion seems excessive.

Especially Rudy Guiliani.

I've got an idea. Let's boycott all of George W. Bush's speeches because he had Guiliani give a keynote at his convention, and George allows for exceptions.

Would these churchmen boycott the President of the United States if he spoke at a Catholic University?

19 posted on 05/18/2005 10:04:11 PM PDT by sinkspur (If you want unconditional love with skin, and hair and a warm nose, get a shelter dog.)
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To: Torie

Spoken like a Catholic-sneering near-atheist.


20 posted on 05/18/2005 10:04:14 PM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: sinkspur

Ah, the tagteam appears. We're . . . . safe.


21 posted on 05/18/2005 10:05:20 PM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: Petronski
Would you boycott a speech by the President at a commencement?

Just curious.

22 posted on 05/18/2005 10:06:25 PM PDT by sinkspur (If you want unconditional love with skin, and hair and a warm nose, get a shelter dog.)
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To: sinkspur

No.


23 posted on 05/18/2005 10:06:58 PM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: sinkspur

The President is pro-life. Giuliani is NOT pro-life. The President is more in line with RC teaching and he isn't even RC!


24 posted on 05/18/2005 10:07:32 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: Petronski

I sneer about a lot of things. SO do you. You just are hyper sensitive when I take a public policy point of view about Catholic Church policy (or the actions of some cleric) that doesn't fit into your leitmotif. My best advice is to take posts that disagree with your point of view more calmly. Part of living on this planet in a civil way is facing and coping with disagreement with some semblance of maturity. JMO.


25 posted on 05/18/2005 10:09:15 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie

"Hypersensitive."


Right. When you say "some cleric" you reveal your prejudice. You're hypersensitive about any opportunity (even the shabbiest) to bash the Vatican.

Part of living on this planet in a civil away is avoiding your base instincts to bash anything greater than you.


26 posted on 05/18/2005 10:13:57 PM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: Petronski

I will be sure to ping you when I find something the Vatican does that pleases me. It has happened before, it will again.


27 posted on 05/18/2005 10:15:36 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie
I'm waiting with baited breath to find something a "near-atheist" finds pleasing about Christ's own Church.



</Sarcasm>

28 posted on 05/18/2005 10:17:47 PM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: Petronski

I think the late Pope's policies on the Evil Empire where seminal and decisive, and his reaching out to other religions was excellent, including, inter alia, burying once and for all, the hatchet with the Jews, and opening the window a bit wider in a more official way regarding the Catholic theological issue of folks of good spirit being able to find their own way to the Catholic heaven based on the content of their character, even if outside the formal strictures of the Catholic Church itself. Of course, that latter bit pleases me not for myself; I think I'm returning to dust, and will "live" thereafter only a brief time in the memory of a few, before achieving total oblivion.


29 posted on 05/18/2005 10:25:09 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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CARDINAL KEELER REFUSES TO ATTEND LOYOLA COLLEGE EVENT HONORING RUDY
GIULIANI

- PROTEST PLANNED AT COMMENCEMENT FRIDAY -

MANASSAS, VA (May 18, 2005) - Today Baltimore's Cardinal William Keeler informed Loyola College of Maryland interim president David Haddad that the Cardinal refuses to participate in an event honoring Rudolph Giuliani, an
advocate of abortion rights and probable Republican candidate for U.S. president in 2008.

The former New York City mayor has been invited to deliver Loyola's commencement address and receive an honorary degree on Friday, May 20. Despite a planned protest on Friday and a public campaign in recent weeks by the Cardinal Newman Society (CNS) and Defend Life of Maryland urging the college to withdraw Giuliani's invitation, Keeler's terse letter to Haddad offers the first public glimpse at what appears to be strained relationship between the historically Catholic college and its bishop.

"[T]here will be no representative of the Archdiocese [of Baltimore] participating in any event honoring former Mayor Giuliani," Keeler wrote in a letter dated May 18, noting that he and Haddad had an "earlier exchange of correspondence" about the college's invitation to Giuliani. In what may be a subtle threat to Loyola College's official recognition by the Cardinal as a Catholic institution, Keeler wrote, "I am confident that, by now, you understand many of the consequences that spring
from an invitation having been extended to former Mayor Giuliani to receive an honorary degree at Loyola. May the Lord make of this event a teaching moment for many."

CNS is protesting commencement speakers and honorees at 18 Catholic colleges and universities, noting that the invitations are a direct violation of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops statement "Catholics in
Political Life." The June 2004 statement includes the following mandate: "The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be
given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest support for their actions." Complete details on the protest are posted at www.cardinalnewmansociety.org.

In a letter dated April 27, CNS urged Cardinal Keeler to "take immediate action to prevent scandal in the Archdiocese of Baltimore," first by privately communicating with Loyola College, but without "waiting until it is too late to inform the public that the invitation is in direct
conflict with the U.S. bishops' statement and the Church's expectations forCatholic colleges and universities." CNS also noted Keeler's authority to determine whether Loyola could remain an officially Catholic institution:

"While our mission is the renewal of Catholic identity at Catholic colleges and universities, we realize that the enforcement of Ex Corde Ecclesiae may require the declaration that an institution is no longer Catholic, and we support such action if Loyola College obstinately refuses
to acknowledge your pastoral authority as bishop and to uphold the Church's fundamental teachings," CNS wrote.

The public action by Keeler comes soon after pro-abortion Rep. Sherwood Boehlert voluntarily turned down an invitation to deliver the commencement address at St. Elizabeth's College of Nursing in Utica, New York, this Saturday. Even though Bishop James Moynihan of the Diocese of Syracuse had privately opposed the invitation to Boehlert, which violated a diocesan ban on such speakers at Catholic institutions, it was Boehlert who turned down the invitation because of planned protests by pro-life
activists, similar to the Loyola protest planned for Friday.

CNS also successfully protested Marymount Manhattan College's invitation to pro-abortion Sen. Hillary Clinton to receive an honorary degree and deliver the commencement address this Saturday, May 20. In response to significant media attention to the protest, the highly
secularized college ended its official recognition by the Archdiocese of New York as a Catholic institution.

The CNS protest against Villanova University in Pennsylvania, which has invited Ireland President Mary McAleese to deliver the commencement address and receive an honorary degree on Sunday, has both outraged and energized Irish citizens with considerable coverage in the Irish media. McAleese has been a public advocate of women's ordination, including strident criticism of the Vatican and supporters of the Church's firm teaching on the male priesthood.

Archbishop Alfred Hughes of New Orleans publicly chastised Loyola University of New Orleans for honoring two politicians, U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu and Louisiana Lt. Gov. Mitchell Landrieu, who have voted for
abortion rights. Archbishop Hughes refused to attend Loyola's commencement ceremony last weekend, as planned.

Loyola's commencement ceremony featuring Giuliani is scheduled for 9 a.m. on Friday morning, when he will be greeted by protesters outside the First Mariner Arena in Baltimore. Leaders of the protest will hold a
press conference in support of Cardinal Keeler and opposing Loyola College's invitation to Giuliani tomorrow, May 19, at 11:30 a.m. outside the Archdiocese of Baltimore Chancellery, 320 Cathedral Street, Baltimore, MD 21201.

For more information and the latest updates about the CNS protest, see http://www.cardinalnewmansociety.org.


[Catholic Campus News]
CARDINAL KEELER REFUSES TO ATTEND LOYOLA EVENT HONORING GIULIANI

On Wednesday, Baltimore?s Cardinal William Keeler informed Loyola College of Maryland interim president David Haddad that the Cardinal refuses to participate in an event honoring Rudolph Giuliani, an advocate of abortion
rights and probable Republican candidate for U.S. president in 2008.

The former New York City mayor has been invited to deliver Loyola's commencement address and receive an honorary degree on Friday, May 20. Despite a planned protest on Friday and a public campaign in recent weeks by the Cardinal Newman Society (CNS) and Defend Life of Maryland urging the college to withdraw Giuliani?s invitation, Keeler?s terse letter to Haddad offers the first public glimpse at what appears to be strained relationship between the historically Catholic college and its bishop.

[T]here will be no representative of the Archdiocese [of Baltimore] participating in any event honoring former Mayor Giuliani, Keeler wrote in a letter dated May 18, noting that he and Haddad had an earlier exchange of correspondence about the college?s invitation to Giuliani.
In what may be a subtle threat to Loyola College?s official recognition by the Cardinal as a Catholic institution, Keeler wrote, I am confident that, by now, you understand many of the consequences that spring from an invitation having been extended to former Mayor Giuliani to receive an
honorary degree at Loyola. May the Lord make of this event a teaching moment for many.

As mayor of New York and later as a U.S. Senate candidate, Giuliani was very public about his support for abortion rights and special rights for homosexuals. ?I?m pro-choice. I'm pro-gay rights, he declared during an
interview on CNN in 1999. His views are radical: he has opposed federal and state bans on partial-birth abortion, and he has opposed restrictions on federal, state and city funding for abortions. In a 1989 interview with New York Newsday, Giuliani said, ?I?d give my daughter money for it
[an abortion]. On gay rights, Giuliani has endorsed ?domesticpartnerships and took steps to extend special benefits to gay and lesbian couples employed by New York City.

CNS is protesting commencement speakers and honorees at 17 Catholic colleges and universities, noting that the invitations are a direct violation of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops statement Catholics in Political Life. The June 2004 statement includes the following
mandate: The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles. They should not be given awards, honors or platforms which would suggest
support for their actions.? Complete details on the protest are posted at www.cardinalnewmansociety.org.

Loyola's commencement ceremony featuring Giuliani is scheduled for 9 a.m. on Friday morning, when he will be greeted by protesters. CNS members and
others are encouraged to join the protest by arriving around 8:30 a.m. at the 1st Mariner Arena, 201 W. Baltimore St., Baltimore, Maryland. A local pro-life organization, Defend Life of Maryland, is leading the protest and
will provide instructions upon arrival.

CONTACT: Dr. David Haddad, Interim President, Loyola College in Maryland, 4501 N. Charles Street, Baltimore, MD 21210; Phone: (410) 617-2201; E-mail: dhaddad@loyola.edu


30 posted on 05/18/2005 10:26:36 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Torie

Yawn.


31 posted on 05/18/2005 10:26:59 PM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...


32 posted on 05/18/2005 10:27:45 PM PDT by Coleus (Roe v. Wade and Endangered Species Act both passed in 1973, Murder Babies/save trees, birds, algae)
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To: Petronski

I responded and answered your question. You just don't like answers which don't quite fit into your little matrix.


33 posted on 05/18/2005 10:28:27 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie

I think I'm returning to dust, and will "live" thereafter only a brief time in the memory of a few, before achieving total oblivion.

*** I think that's tragic and pretty fatalistic.


34 posted on 05/18/2005 10:28:48 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: Petronski

Rudy better think twice about running for the presidency. He wcould be a hero and run against Hitlery but he doesn't have the sense to do that.


35 posted on 05/18/2005 10:29:38 PM PDT by John Lenin (The Mainstream Media needs to be crushed !)
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To: cyborg

I'm comfortable with it. But well, what do I know? There is no absolute truth here for the skeptic. How can there be?


36 posted on 05/18/2005 10:30:44 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie

Your misunderstanding/misstatement of Catholic catechism is pathetic.

I have no matrix of any size. My faith is in Christ and His own Church.

YOU are the one who defines her own little matrix.




And don't flatter yourself, I asked you no question. Vicious "near atheists" have no information I'd want to derive.


37 posted on 05/18/2005 10:33:19 PM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: Torie

You're the first person I've ever met that has this view of the afterlife. Suppose you are wrong?


38 posted on 05/18/2005 10:33:52 PM PDT by cyborg (Serving fresh, hot Anti-opus since 18 April 2005)
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To: cyborg

Then I will be pleasantly or unpleasantly surprised. But Senator Hatch assures me that the Mormons have irrigated Hell, and it looks now just like Utah, a state whose scenary I love. So in that sense, the "surprise" either way will be a win-win for me.


39 posted on 05/18/2005 10:36:31 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Dan from Michigan

Maybe its me, but isn't this article just a little bit intellectually dishonest? I don't think that this is as big of a supposed dissent from within the church as the article portrays. Loyola is a Jesuit institution and as such, the local diocese have no say over what happens there. Jesuits operate soley at the discretion of their General (I think that's the title ol' Ignatius came up with but don't quote me) and the Holy Father. Historically, local diocese have often tried to do things to make life difficult for the Jesuits. To me this article kind of boils down to someone like Gorgeous George (the new lib celeb de jour don't zot me because of my couple of french words LOL) stating that he won't be attending a commencement given by Margret Thatcher at Oxford?


40 posted on 05/18/2005 10:50:06 PM PDT by Guht
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To: Dan from Michigan; NYer; redgolum; ELS; Desdemona; Siobhan; american colleen; nickcarraway; ...
Well, some small progress in the midst of the madness. Perhaps the recent trips to Rome for the funeral of John Paul II and the election of the new pope infused some orthodox Catholic Viagra into the Cardinal. This is a welcome development.

It would help if ALL of the Cardinals and Bishops would take a more active interest in encouraging Catholic-friendly education at Catholic colleges and discouraging the silly liberal secular humanist anti-Catholic agenda being imposed on the faithful.

At any rate, Christ's Blessings to Cardinal Keeler.
WELCOME HOME!!!

Feel's better there, doesn't it?

IHS+

41 posted on 05/18/2005 10:52:35 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Dan from Michigan; ninenot

A blatant act of Catholicism by William Cardinal Keeler. Perhaps a first. A few more and it will be believable that the cafeteria may actually be closed.


42 posted on 05/18/2005 10:55:15 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Stellar Dendrite

No one ever accused Danson of having three brain cells to rub together. Dennehy ought to be ashamed f himself. Does he need work that badly????


43 posted on 05/18/2005 10:57:23 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Torie
If you ever convert to Catholicism, it might even become your business. Very unlikely. of course.

If Unbeliever University should allow Fr. Groeschel to speak, you can boycott. It will be OK with Catholics if you do not that it would be any of OUR business.

44 posted on 05/18/2005 11:00:32 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk

How have you been Elk? I have missed you.


45 posted on 05/18/2005 11:06:07 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie

Cardinal Keeler is a theologian, not a politician. I doubt he's trying to win brownie points with the chattering class, anyhows. His "principles" are ostensibly more than just political posturing, one would hope.


46 posted on 05/18/2005 11:06:50 PM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Torie; Petronski

Torie: It won't be as though any Catholics will really care whether you are pleased or not with our Church which is not your own.


47 posted on 05/18/2005 11:07:48 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Nonstatist

You are not Catholic either. How dare you comment on matters internal to Catholics. :) I hope this note finds you well. Don't be a stranger. I remember fondly our days together when Go Pat Go was popular.


48 posted on 05/18/2005 11:10:45 PM PDT by Torie (Constrain rogue state courts; repeal your state constitution)
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To: Torie
who will not be speaking about abortion

I mean, its a Jesuit University Commencement, for crying out loud. Whats Guliani gonna be talking about, anyway, the stock market?

49 posted on 05/18/2005 11:10:48 PM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: BlackElk
BlackElk wrote: A blatant act of Catholicism by William Cardinal Keeler. Perhaps a first. A few more and it will be believable that the cafeteria may actually be closed.

The biting sarcasm and irony is killing me. LOL!

I was thinking something similar but, in the spirit of St. Malachy, decided to go with the olive branch.

50 posted on 05/18/2005 11:10:54 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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