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Americans can do labor once more
South Florida Sun-Sentinel ^ | May 20, 2005 | Alexandria Ostrowski

Posted on 05/21/2005 5:50:30 AM PDT by B4Ranch

I enjoy Thomas Sowell's columns very much and agree with him almost all the time. His article on May 6 was about "illegals in America taking jobs away from Americans and those who say we need them to do the work Americans will not do." He ended by saying, "Americans worked as laborers before there were undocumented workers to do the work and they can do it again."

(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: aliens; vigilantes

1 posted on 05/21/2005 5:50:30 AM PDT by B4Ranch
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To: B4Ranch

It's time to take the playstations and other toys away from teenagers and get them back out into the fields. I did it and it's good enough for them.


2 posted on 05/21/2005 5:54:00 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Anyone who thinks we believe Hillary on any issue is truly a moron.)
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To: B4Ranch

If there were more women washing their own windows and mopping their own floors, and more men mowing their own yards we would have less obese people in the US...and that includes the obese "immigrants."


3 posted on 05/21/2005 5:57:29 AM PDT by kittymyrib
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To: cripplecreek
Actually, as I say over and over, it's time to quit using the brute force of the federal government to take money away from people who work to give to those who won't work.

Do that, and millions of Americans will be begging for those jobs that "Americans won't do".

4 posted on 05/21/2005 5:58:25 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring

When John Engler became governor of this state (Michigan) He started slashing welfare programs. There was a lot of screaming and crying but after a while I started seeing a lot of people working who I never expected to see working.


5 posted on 05/21/2005 6:02:12 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Anyone who thinks we believe Hillary on any issue is truly a moron.)
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To: cripplecreek

It's amazing how that works. Now all we need to do is clone Engler about 49 times.


6 posted on 05/21/2005 6:04:10 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: B4Ranch

Funny, I am booked through the end of this year doing the "Jobs Americans won't do". Would I rather sit here and freep everyday? Sure. It don't pay the bills though. Besides, I work primarily beachside and the scenery is much better. BTW, I do remodeling/addittions on both residential and commercial buildings.


7 posted on 05/21/2005 6:11:31 AM PDT by Normal4me
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To: cripplecreek

A few years ago, the Minnesota legislature proposed a 5 year limit on state welfare. 60 MONTHS !


8 posted on 05/21/2005 6:14:41 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I'm sure there are probably plenty of ways to get extentions too.


9 posted on 05/21/2005 6:16:15 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Anyone who thinks we believe Hillary on any issue is truly a moron.)
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To: B4Ranch
. . . you won't have to labor like your parents did on the farm, in coal mines, in factories, as maids, servants, construction workers, road and bridge builders, gardeners, painters, etc. . . .

What a crock! One of the guys in our office quit a month ago to go back to work in the coal mines-- better pay, pensions and more job security. After a week of dodging office politics and doing dog and pony shows for the higher ups, I find a weekend in the garden planting flowers, pulling weeds and picking strawberries therapeutic. Hell, I'd glady do it full time if it paid anything close to what the office does.

10 posted on 05/21/2005 6:17:20 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (crime would drop like a sprung trapdoor if we brought back good old-fashioned hangings)
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To: B4Ranch

Let's put aside the welfare cases for a moment and think of another side of the jobs "Americans won't do".

American have become affluent through their own labors, but there is a downside to affluence. While affluence can give our children many benefits it can also make them lazy, apathetic, and awash in a false sense of worth.

A child that experiences no hardship becomes a child dependent on others to do the dirty work in his life. That dependency creates a character trait that sees certain jobs as "below him", and when economic times are hard those "below him" jobs are ignored.

So, when we hear about jobs that "Americans won't do" let's ask about those who won't do them and why. Chances are we'll find college grads, along with the welfare cases, ignoring many jobs that "aren't up to their standards".


11 posted on 05/21/2005 6:19:15 AM PDT by Noachian (To Control the Judiciary The People Must First Control The Congress)
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To: Noachian

There is no such thing as "jobs Americans won't do". That is a myth invented by the pro-immigration lobby. There are more than a million homeless people in this country. Are all of them homeless because they don't want to work? Of course not. Most of them would gladly do ANY job other than be homeless, but there are just not enough jobs for everyone.


12 posted on 05/21/2005 6:24:01 AM PDT by Decombobulator
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To: B4Ranch
His article on May 6 was about "illegals in America taking jobs away from Americans and those who say we need them to do the work Americans will not do."

Oh yeah, Americans won't do masonary work, concrete work, drywall, meatcutting and scads of other jobs that illegals are taking.

The simple fact is Americans won't do these jobs for the wages that the contractors and meatpackers are paying, or put up with the "do as I say or hit the bricks" method of workplace discilpline these people use. At least Sowell could have been a little more honest in his column, instead of conforming to the general PC crowd. The people doing the hiring of "undocumented" workers have a fairly deep labor pool of "undocumented" workers to hire for minimum wage, so they don't worry too much if a bunch get snagged in a Immigration sweep. They all know that if they get caught, the penalty isn't more than a slap on the wrist and they go out and do it all over again.

Slap those that hire these people with a swift and superlative monetary penalty, and put at least on "citizen" in jail for a few months and the practice will change.

13 posted on 05/21/2005 6:26:30 AM PDT by woofer
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To: Decombobulator
There is no such thing as "jobs Americans won't do". That is a myth invented by the pro-immigration lobby...

That is it exactly. The area where I live has almost no illegal presence and guess what? Americans are doing the jobs that the illegals do in most of America. Can you imagine, I saw white folks doing landscape maintenance and construction work yesterday?

14 posted on 05/21/2005 6:40:43 AM PDT by sangoo
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To: Decombobulator
Many of the homeless are mentally ill.

Start deporting those here illegally, and quit paying people not to work, and you'll simultaneously open up a supply of available jobs and a pool of motivated workers.

Then what will you have?

Americans doing "jobs Americans won't do".

15 posted on 05/21/2005 7:28:10 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: B4Ranch

Many of the "Jobs Americans Won't Do" are the same jobs Americans did do before, for a decent wage and under decent conditions, that now go to illegal immigrants who are willing to live ten men to a one bedroom house.

Some of the "Jobs Americans Won't Do" are jobs that teenagers used to do for spending money - taking care of peoples lawns and shrubs for instance - that illegal immigrants now do full time for that same pitance of pay.

Some of the "Jobs Americans Won't Do" are jobs that American culture now frowns on letting teenagers do. From age 13 to 18 I got up every morning before 5:AM, 365 days a year to do my paper-routes. In the northern California town of Healdsburg (and in the surrounding area) they closed the high school and the junior high at harvest time. All the kids worked (and got paid) until the harvest was in and then they went back to school. They learned the positive values of a hard days work, got paid for it and got a break from school. I imagine they grew up to be more responsible adults than will most of todays' teens. In America's relentless effort to shield "children" from the riggers of "hard labor", we have denied children the positive experiences of doing some work at any age. Work can always be a learning experience and it can be a maturing experience for children. They should be protected from abuse, but children should be permitted, and encouraged, to work more often than they are now.

Some of the agricultural "Jobs American's Won't Do" are jobs that have been mechanized more in other countries. America's surplus of illegal immigrants allows segments of American agriculture to simply be lazy at adopting new labor saving technologies. When they claim that they "need" the farm workers, it is sometimes that they want to pocket the higher profits from illegal immigrant labor than invest in new technology.

There are NO jobs that "Americans Won't Do", if they get paid a decent wage for them, if they are encouraged to do them and if they are allowed to do them.


16 posted on 05/21/2005 7:32:08 AM PDT by Wuli (The democratic basis of the constitution is "we the people" not "we the court".)
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To: woofer

"Oh yeah, Americans won't do masonary work, concrete work, drywall, meatcutting and scads of other jobs that illegals are taking.

The simple fact is Americans won't do these jobs for the wages that the contractors and meatpackers are paying, or put up with the "do as I say or hit the bricks" method of workplace discilpline these people use."

That's exactly how any business should be run, thee who issues the checks and finances the payroll sets the rules, not the hired help.

At least in the contracting business, the ones that have run the legitamate ones out of business aren't paying cheap wages, they are paying $20-30/hr. in cash with no deductions and won't hire anyone that is legal. they not only avoid taxes or benefits but they don't pay comp insurance which runs 50-over 100% of wages.

I ran a successful contracting business for 40 years that I shut down in 92 rather than join the ones operating illegally. It wasn't the wages which averaged about $23/hr at the time, it was the additional costs associated dirctly with the wage that increased the actual cost per hour to over $45/hr.

As far as running it with an iron fist, you bet I did! I never left the office without a payroll checkbook in my truck and anyone not following my rules of quality, methods, or rate of production was terminated!

Any employee that "had a suggestion of how to do it better" was told as far as this project is concerned it was priced out on the methods that they were told to follow and that anything different might be considered in the bidding on future work but that I wouldn't listen to it when he was being paid to work. He could call me with the suggestion between the hours of 7PM and 5AM when I didn't have work to do and make his suggestions.


17 posted on 05/21/2005 7:34:05 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: DuncanWaring
Actually, as I say over and over, it's time to quit using the brute force of the federal government to take money away from people who work to give to those who won't work.

Do that, and millions of Americans will be begging for those jobs that "Americans won't do".

I felt your entire post was worthy of repeating.

The transfer payments within the tax code in general, and unemployment benefits in particular discourage work, and cause a situation where employers have a limited labor pool to draw from in lower skilled and unskilled segments. Unskilled people are thus prevented from acquiring the skills which would over time make their labor more valuable.

It always strikes me as ludicrous when each minimum-wage hike proposal is accompanied by millions allocated to "training" of workers, something which the private sector would readily accommodate if left alone.

18 posted on 05/21/2005 7:51:31 AM PDT by wayoverontheright
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To: All
Unlike the illegals, Americans don't want to squeeze 10, 30, 50 people into one residence. Unlike the illegals, WE are expected to pay taxes, auto insurance and health insurance. Unlike the illegals, we are expected to drive safe, insured vehicles that are registered to the proper owner. Therefore, we Americans cannot work for the low wages illegals can take. Americans of all races have always done every kind of entry level, dirty, grubby, difficult or dangerous job. To say that Americans "won't do" certain jobs is a slap in the face. We CAN'T do them at the pay illegals have driven them down to, and with no benefits, either!
19 posted on 05/21/2005 7:53:48 AM PDT by Nea Wood (I considered atheism but there weren't enough holidays.)
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To: dalereed; woofer
woofer - The simple fact is Americans won't do these jobs for the wages that the contractors and meatpackers are paying, or put up with the "do as I say or hit the bricks" method of workplace discilpline these people use."

dalereed - That's exactly how any business should be run, thee who issues the checks and finances the payroll sets the rules, not the hired help.

Except that woofer is talking about businesses who break the law, hire illegals and then basically abuse them, and you're talking about businesses who aren't breaking the law.

dalereed - I ran a successful contracting business for 40 years that I shut down in 92 rather than join the ones operating illegally.

I saw that happen to people I know. Because of some employers hiring illegals those honest employers were faced with either hiring illegals themselves or rarely getting any contracts. They couldn't continue to operate legally and remain competitive with those who did not.

20 posted on 05/21/2005 7:58:06 AM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: Decombobulator
There are more than a million homeless people in this country.

As Jesus said, "The poor you will always have with you". Believe it or not, there really are some people that don't want to work, and there are millions of jobs most Americans won't take.

21 posted on 05/21/2005 8:04:21 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: B4Ranch

All I know about Americans it that we're the hardest working country, I'm not going to say we're smarter than everybody else because I don't know that that's true. I just don't understand where this mentality originated, that Americans are too superior to do certain jobs.

If the laborers stop working today, the supermarket shelves stay empty and your money becomes worthless. People sitting in offices don't fill the stores with food and merchandise. They don't produce it, they don't package it, they don't ship it, they don't stock it, they don't sell it. If we're too good to work the fields and pack meat then we must be too good to fight for the country on a battlefield. It's a good thing our grandfathers didn't think so, or we'd be working the fields right now except the Germans and Japanese wouldn't pay us anything.


22 posted on 05/21/2005 8:59:57 AM PDT by grizzly84
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To: dalereed

When it comes to US born workers, over the years I have seen a few characteristics they have in common. I'd say they break down into three categories:

Category A: The Low Maintenance Pro
He shows up on time, asks intelligent questions and tries to see the big picture. He spends a great deal of effort making sure he understands exactly what the end result needs to be. These guys enjoy what they do and have fun doing it. When he makes a mistake, he will own up to it and fix it. A future business owner who knows every job is a potential reference that can help him later in life.

Category B: The Chip-on-the-Shoulder Bitter Guy
This guy is a unentusiastic, mean tempered (alcoholic?) who takes instruction grudgingly. He thinks his ideas are the best and will bitch and moan when forced to do it the way he is told. Works painfully slow but usually does what you want him to do - if you keep an eye on him. In his mind, he is the underpaid, unappreciated and misunderstood victim of life. Master of knowing where all the shortcuts are and reliably takes the path of least resistance. You have a sense he has hocked all of his tools for beer and cigarette money at least 10 times in his career.

Category C: The Dreamer
This guy wants to be paid to do your job while he plans his next move. Spends most of the time on the job wishing he did something else for a living. Makes many mistakes, mainly because he doesn't pay attention to instructions or details. Will hide any mistake or take any shortcut he can get away with.

Category A guy is who we want when we have a job to do but the CatB and CatC guys are who we usually end up with because they comprise the majority of the talent pool. After a few days of stress dealing with these high maintenance dudes, you start wishing you hired those quiet, hard working brown dudes you saw doing a job down the street.


23 posted on 05/21/2005 9:01:45 AM PDT by SteelTrap
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To: Nea Wood

Auto insurance requirements and taxes aside, there are no laws preventing you or me from going out and getting an unskilled job today. I am completely confident we could be employed TODAY as a landscape laborer, shelf-stocker, a grocery bagger or some other low skilled job. If that is what we wanted to do - we could do it.

There are also no laws preventing you or me from letting our entire extended family move into our house. Heck, my brother-in-law would have his truck loaded and be at my door ready to move in tonight if I let him.

The unescapable fact is we have made choices regarding each of these hypotheticals so it is disengenuous to pretend otherwise.


24 posted on 05/21/2005 9:15:20 AM PDT by SteelTrap
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To: DumpsterDiver
Thanks Dumpster. Although I don't think Dalereed was laying into me. He was just recounting what he had seen from the inside.

I, on the other hand, see things from my side of the fence. And when they build a huge new mall west of Des Moines and you need to be bi-lingual to communicate with all the different "workers", it becomes frustrating. Now Des Moines and Omaha are like San Antinio, Houston and Dallas were twenty years ago. The gubmint could solve the problem overnight if they had the gonads to enforce the very laws they enacted with the last amnesty and immigration law "enhancement" and go after the the people who hire these illegals. Believe me, the message would get back to the border in one helluva hurry if there weren't no yobs Chee-cagoo.

25 posted on 05/21/2005 1:17:07 PM PDT by woofer
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To: DuncanWaring

Bingo. The illegals are merely filling a void that Americans have created. Let's see... break your back in the farms and eat beans & rice, or get welfare and enjoy frozen pizza & steak with those food stamps? Incidentially something like 80% of deaf people live on SSI and you'd be appalled at how much they can afford with those supposedly super-low wages.


26 posted on 05/21/2005 1:20:52 PM PDT by Nataku X (Last month's summary: GOP ^= Dem ^= GOP ^= Dem)
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To: kittymyrib; cripplecreek; B4Ranch

I REMEMBER when people mowed their own lawns, raised their own children, cleaned their own houses, did their own remodeling, bricklaying and so forth.

The influx of illegals to do these jobs has permitted the yuppie designer culture to think of themselves as a privileged class with servants. Even their kids are designer accessories for them.


27 posted on 05/21/2005 1:35:19 PM PDT by La Enchiladita (No good deed goes unpunished.)
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