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GUN CULTURE THREATENS DEMOCRACY : Gun lobby threatens our very way of life
Coalition to Stop Gun Violence ^ | May 13 | Josh Horowitz

Posted on 05/21/2005 10:42:38 PM PDT by Dan from Michigan

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To: Bostton1
I used to worry about having my name on a 'list' too, but I finally realized that my name is already on a whole list of lists. Face it, if the government were to come after our guns, they'd first come for the registration lists from right-wing sites such as this. Hell, with the Patriot Act, they may already have all that and the administrators are forbidden to say anything.
No, when/if push ever comes to shove, Big Brother will already know who you are. You might as well do as much good as you can until then. It may be enough to turn the tide... kinda like the straw that breaks the camel's back.
121 posted on 05/22/2005 10:27:12 AM PDT by oldfart ("All governments and all civilizations fall... eventually. Our government is not immune.)
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To: freepatriot32; Dan from Michigan!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_9I/.cmd/ad/.ar/sa.portlet.MultipleSearchPageSubmitAction/.c/6_0_6B/.ce/7_0_S5/.p/5_0_P1?q1=cIRKc20EGWQ%3D&q2=e2KwUn2cqGQSCo3za4XH%2FDyAPgP8PaQi&q3=x1fBgHTAQK4%3D&q4=x1fBgHTAQK4%3D&q5=%2BlyKplf5AWc%3D&q6=V6qo4%2BWpMeE%3D&q7=F8e784h6Axs%3D&npage=1&description_en=Results+of+search+for+victims+whose+family+name+%28including+synonyms%29+is+%27%3Cb%3EHorwitz%3C%2Fb%3E%27+%3A&description_he=%D7%AA%D7%95%D7%A6%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA+%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A9+%D7%A2%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A8+%D7%A7%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%AA+%D7%90%D7%A9%D7%A8+%D7%A9%D7%9D+%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%A4%D7%97%D7%94+%D7%A9%D7%9C%D7%94%D7%9D+%28%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%9C+%D7%A0%D7%A8%D7%93%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%AA%29++%27%3Cb%3EHorwitz%3C%2Fb%3E%27+%3A&description_zz=Ergebnisse+f%C3%BCr+Opfer+mit+Familienname+%28auch+in+anderen+Schreibweisen%29++%27%3Cb%3EHorwitz%3C%2Fb%3E%27+%3A

Here's the list of the first 1000 Horwitz's that subscribed to Josh's anti-gun philosophies.

It is Josh's disgrace that he again promotes the national socialist statist philosophies upon the unwitting public.

It's an absolute disgrace that national Rabinical counsels are members of this organization.

122 posted on 05/22/2005 10:27:17 AM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: TheWriterTX
Here here! I do love it when someone so thoroughly obviates my need to write a reply to a story by posting such a reply that is better written, and more to the point than I could have ever done. Exactly spot-on! Bravo!
123 posted on 05/22/2005 10:38:44 AM PDT by Richard Axtell
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To: Richard Axtell

Thank you.

124 posted on 05/22/2005 10:41:22 AM PDT by TheWriterTX (Proud Retosexual Wife of 12 Years)
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To: SALChamps03
Something that usually escapes the supporters of David Koresh and Randy Weaver are that Koresh was a child molester who thought he was Jesus and Weaver was wanted on bad check charges. They had both broken the law.

I think you and I are talking apples and oranges here. I'm not arguing Koresh and Weaver as individuals, nor am I appointing them champions of a cause.

The author of the article said: "...they had no right to use private arsenals to keep the police at bay." This to me implies that the author's credo is that we all just need to go with the flow no matter the accusation and take our chances with the courts - and that's fine as long as the courts are still fair and honest.

I'm of the belief that if we can make sure checks and balances apply to public opinion as well, we won't have to find ourselves in a spot where we're even considering the whole "vote from the rooftops" scenario, and so far it appears that conservative-type thinking has found a media voice. But, the 2nd Amendment provides a very-last-resort insurance policy that is unique to this country, and I'd hate to see that taken out of the people's hands.

125 posted on 05/22/2005 10:59:18 AM PDT by dbwz (2A Sister)
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To: garandgal
By framing the gun debate as a choice between protecting liberty and the illusion of safety, the gun lobby has painted itself as a defender of basic American values. The actual debate, as the NRA and the facts conclusively prove is: "Liberty and safety (guns) vs. no liberty and no safety (gun confiscation)."
126 posted on 05/22/2005 11:25:52 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: Dan from Michigan

Congratulations for finding this article and posting it. There are times we can only know how really vile the libs and gun grabbers are by seeing the drivel they regurgitate as a substitute for thinking, let alone rational thinking.

127 posted on 05/22/2005 11:28:25 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: goldstategop
Here's where I differ with liberals: I believe a trusty gun will stop a criminal dead cold. That's common sense with a bullet.

That's cold an inhuman. What about the ALLEGED criminals rights? I mean if he threatened you, thats far less than you killing him. So he takes some of your belongings. Does that give you the right to take his life?


Wow that sucks. Trying to FEEL like a lib HURTS


128 posted on 05/22/2005 11:52:42 AM PDT by mountn man
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To: snowsislander
I hadn't noticed this fixation on gangs, but it doesn't surprise me. That's been their modus operandi -- get the MSM bellowing about something, and then try to start a legislative push based on the manufactured hullabaloo.

Hey, they saw that it worked with the Pew Foundation and CFR, so why not continue with a winning strategy?


129 posted on 05/22/2005 11:59:06 AM PDT by MarkL (I've got a fever, and the only prescription is MORE COWBELL!!!)
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To: Dan from Michigan
The new law goes far beyond self-defense, which was already a well-established right in Florida, to invite vigilantes to substitute their judgment for the judicial system.

Despite the fact that this has yet to happen, and that, so for, ALL the leftist's "predictions" have been WRONG, why do we believe them now? To me, whenever a leftist proposes something, either DO the opposite, or have the confidence to know that you are right....

130 posted on 05/22/2005 12:01:01 PM PDT by dirtbiker (Solution for Terrorism: Nuke 'em 'till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark!)
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To: Dan from Michigan
Gun control is hitting your target with each & every round constantly!
131 posted on 05/22/2005 12:01:31 PM PDT by TMSuchman (2nd Generation U.S. MARINE, 3rd Generation American & PROUD OF IT!)
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To: Dan from Michigan
As famed legal scholar Roscoe Pound observed, however, "A legal right of the citizen to wage war on the government is something that cannot be admitted. ... [because] bearing arms today is a very different thing from what it was in the days of the embattled farmers who withstood the British in 1775. In the urban industrial society of today a general right to bear arms so as to be able to resist oppression by the Government would mean that gangs could defeat the whole Bill of Rights."


errr....huh?  What?  

Would 5 or 6 bong hits make the point of this paragraph intelligible?

132 posted on 05/22/2005 12:04:44 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Every evil which liberals imagine Judaism and Christianity to be, Islam is.)
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To: Dan from Michigan

133 posted on 05/22/2005 12:05:01 PM PDT by aomagrat (Where weapons are not allowed, it is best to carry weapons.)
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To: spinestein
Correction: Koresh was a kook cult leader who thought he was a new Jesus prophet, but there is NO EVIDENCE that he was a child molester. That accusation originated with Janet Reno as an excuse to use force to raid his compound but has never been substantiated by facts known to anyone in the justice department or anywhere else.

And, IIRC, at the time, given those bogus charges, the federal government was outside their authority in going after Koresh for those charges.

While I'm 100% for the swift conviction and harsh punnishment of child molesters, it was just a smoke screen for what the feds were doing there. To paraphrase a quote from the Viet-Nam era, "they had to kill the children to save them"


134 posted on 05/22/2005 12:05:15 PM PDT by MarkL (I've got a fever, and the only prescription is MORE COWBELL!!!)
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To: Tax Government
[ Every last person reading FR should join NRA. Even if you don't own a gun. ]

To preserve target practice and hunting.?..

The 2nd amendment was to make revolution LEGAL, not to insure hunting and target practice rights..

Who in America would ENACT the 2nd amendment for its intended purpose.?.

Not many, I think.. Would screw up the football season and positively cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil.. not to speak of Jerry Springer.. when MsM TV stations were ugh dealt with..

135 posted on 05/22/2005 12:08:47 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: Dan from Michigan
Our system includes democratic safeguards, such as juries, that do not rely on the private force of arms.

The Courts do rely on a Private force that is armed, they are called the Police... If you disobey a court order the armed force will come and make sure you comply! Sometimes by busting in your door with Guns Drawn...The court used thier Armed force to return Elian Gonzalez to Cuba.

136 posted on 05/22/2005 12:18:49 PM PDT by KingNo155
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To: TheWriterTX

I would like to know if you sent that to him?

If not it needs to be.

137 posted on 05/22/2005 12:37:53 PM PDT by ChefKeith (If Diplomacy worked, then we would be sitting here talking.)
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To: Billthedrill

Why is it that the gun fascists never point out that the NRA is supported by millions of Americans? No anti-gun group has even half the numbers of the NRA. What the gun grabbers want is to go against the will of the people.

The gun Nazis never mention that in the history of the world, gun control has resulted in about 100 millions deaths. People killed at the hands of their own government, in supposedly legal fashion.

Also the gun Nazis fail to point out that crime goes down in states that have lax gun laws, and that crime goes up in countries like England and Australia that have very strict gun laws. But then again when has any liberal ever carried about the facts?

138 posted on 05/22/2005 12:43:02 PM PDT by Exton1
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To: Dan from Michigan

The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
1023 15th Street, N.W., Suite 600
Washington, DC 20005
Tel: 202-408-0061
Fax: 202-544-7213

139 posted on 05/22/2005 12:45:32 PM PDT by Exton1
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To: Dan from Michigan

actually, they are right to assert that gun-culture threatens democracy.

democracy means majority-rule.
consider this three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

republicanism, made possible through an armed citizenry, is not democracy.
In the republican model, the heavily armed sheep can effectively disagree.

140 posted on 05/22/2005 12:55:29 PM PDT by King Prout (blast and char it among fetid buzzard guts!)
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