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To: TheCrusader

I like Fr. Pavone a lot. And when I have any doubts about my desire to join the Catholic church because the mass is too liberal, I just have to listen to the POTP where they pray for "an end to the scourge of abortion" to come to my senses and know that this is the only sane church out there. Just about. Well, the other big player, the Southern Baptists is moral too, just not my style.


50 posted on 06/08/2005 8:12:25 AM PDT by johnb838 (In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.)
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To: johnb838
If Dean wants to lump all Republicans together as intolerant "Christians" using the Terri case he's making a grave error.

That makes a super huge block.

Take note that there is practically no Christian denomination in America that would have condoned Terri's death as it was carried out.

ADDRESS OF JOHN PAUL II TO THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS ON "LIFE-SUSTAINING TREATMENTS AND VEGETATIVE STATE: SCIENTIFIC ADVANCES AND ETHICAL DILEMMAS" Saturday, 20 March 2004

"....I feel the duty to reaffirm strongly that the intrinsic value and personal dignity of every human being do not change, no matter what the concrete circumstances of his or her life. A man, even if seriously ill or disabled in the exercise of his highest functions, is and always will be a man, and he will never become a "vegetable" or an "animal"....

I should like particularly to underline how the administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life, not a medical act. Its use, furthermore, should be considered, in principle, ordinary and proportionate, and as such morally obligatory, insofar as and until it is seen to have attained its proper finality, which in the present case consists in providing nourishment to the patient and alleviation of his suffering.

.....As a pledge and support of this, your authentic humanitarian mission to give comfort and support to your suffering brothers and sisters, I remind you of the words of Jesus: "Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me" (Mt 25: 40).

SOUTHERN BAPTIST

"....WHEREAS, Western medicine has heretofore followed both the Judeo-Christian tradition and the over 2,500 year-old Hippocratic tradition forbidding physicians to assist in the death of their patients; and

WHEREAS, The Bible teaches that God created all human life in His own image and declares human life to be sacred from conception until natural death (Genesis 1:29:6 and following); and

WHEREAS, The Bible likewise teaches that murder, including self-murder, is immoral (Exodus 20:13); and

WHEREAS, American society seems to be embracing of the "culture of death"...."

Be it therefore RESOLVED, that we the messengers of the Southern Baptist Convention, meeting in New Orleans, Louisiana, June 11-13, 1996, affirm the biblical and Hippocratic prohibitions against assisted suicide.."

THE ORTHODOX CHURCH

...."Euthanasia is understood to be the view or practice which holds that a person has the right, and even the moral obligation, to end his or her life when it is considered to be - for whatever subjectively accepted reason "not worth living." Euthanasia advocates nearly always include in this assertion the right and duty of others, including medical personnel, to assist the person in fulfilling this purpose. Needless to say, the Orthodox Church rejects such a view, seeing such behavior as a form of suicide on the part of the individual, and a form of murder on a part of others who assist in this practice, both of which are seen as sins. Thus the Orthodox Church, in the words of 1976 Chrismms encyclical of former Archbishop Iakovos, considers "euthanasia and abortion, along with homosexuality...a...moral alienation."....

PRESBYTERIAN

"....Today there are mounting pressures upon medical professionals, pastors, families, and individuals to hasten the death of those under their care or authority. Such hastening sometimes takes the form of direct action, such as a lethal injection. It may also take a passive form in neglect or withdrawal of the necessary means of preservation of life. Such means include medical treatment, both extraordinary and ordinary. But they also include basic provisions normally understood as care, warmth, cleanliness, food, water, and love.

Christians must distinguish between "treatment" and "care". Where medical treatment which is not gravely burdensome is necessary for an individual to continue to live, the withdrawal of such treatment - except in cases where death is imminent and inevitable and to continue such treatment would pose a grave risk or cause more burden to the patient than it would alleviate - is a violation of the image of God which all men and women bear..."

51 posted on 06/08/2005 8:25:36 AM PDT by Earthdweller (US descendant of French Protestants_"Where there is life, there is hope"..Terri Schindler)
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To: johnb838
Hey john..by the way..my Mother's family was Catholic and my Father's Protestant.

I had to go to both all my life.

Believe me..on what really counts there isn't much of a difference.

52 posted on 06/08/2005 8:41:57 AM PDT by Earthdweller (US descendant of French Protestants_"Where there is life, there is hope"..Terri Schindler)
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To: johnb838
"I like Fr Pavone a lot. And when I have any doubts about my desire to join the Catholic church because the mass is too liberal,"

Since allowing the Mass to be said in the vernacular tongue, (beginning in 1963, and culminating in the 1969 "Novus Ordo" Mass), it's piety and reverence has been whittled away by the innovators and liberals. But the ancient, traditional Latin Tridentine Mass is alive and kicking, though now practically underground. A Google search will help you locate this Mass in your state. This is the Catholic Mass the Saints and our Catholic ancestors attended. (I believe there are one or more such Masses in every State).

In the 1980's Pope JPII granted an "indult", allowing the traditional Mass to be retained and requiring the American bishops to make it available to Catholics who desire it. But sadly, most bishops just ignored the Pope's request, and a great many Catholics aren't even aware of it.

Do a Google search with keywords like "Catholic indult Mass", or "Latin Tridentine Mass", and hopefully you will find one within driving distance. Good luck and God bless.

63 posted on 06/10/2005 11:12:50 PM PDT by TheCrusader ("This is the 21st Century, when 'feelings' trump intelligence, logic and reason.)
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