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Court Taking Up Abortion Notification (Supreme Court Takes Abortion Case)
MyWayNews ^ | May 23, 2005 | HOPE YEN

Posted on 05/23/2005 8:50:09 AM PDT by Asphalt

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To: Tarheel1
Re: "I'm sure she'd bleed less from that and have less damage, than if she'd have used the good ol' coat hanger."

Most likely but your claim does not reflect a change in behavior as a result of different laws. When abortion was illegal there was nowhere near 1.5 million deaths from back ally abortions. In fact the improvement in medicine (antibiotics etc) made deaths from illegal abortion (not counting the child of course) comparable to the deaths today from legal abortion. The argument that legal abortions saves the lives of adult women is fraudulent at best dishonest at worst.

Ironic isn't it that when abortion was illegal great strides were made in saving the lives of murdering women but for the last 35 years that abortion has been legal very little improvement in saving her life has been made.

Nature has a justice all its' own.
51 posted on 05/23/2005 10:49:47 AM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: Tarheel1

This is not a laughing matter.

I am writing expressly about abortions performed by so-called "medical professionals". These poor girls go into clinics for, in some cases, what they believe will be counselling and guidance, and wind up being rushed into an abortion before they know what hit them.

There is no follow-up with these "doctors". They collect their money and they have no further contact with the patient.

Grellis asked you if you are a parent and I don't recall your answer. I take it you are not, for you do not sound like one.


53 posted on 05/23/2005 10:52:54 AM PDT by katieanna (My Redeemer Liveth!)
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To: yama426
I guess well have to agree to disagree. If you can manage a car on our highways when you are 16 then to me you can manage your own body, but see above, Im all about too much freedom according to some.

It's not that you're all about freedom. Even the 16 year old driver is under the supervision of parents.

But if this is really about choice and freedom... then let's give the guys the choice and freedom to be part of the decision. Or the choice and freedom to decide if they are financially liable or not for the next 18 years. And let's extend this choice until the baby is ... say age 2. By the time it's 2 then a real determination can be made if the thing is dumb, or smart, good looking or not.... or if the mother is really going to like being a mom or not. Or if the dad is really going to want to care for the kid.

You're not really about choice or freedom. You're about women killing their own babies. That's your bottom line. And unfortunately our government uses mine and your tax dollars everyday in this process. And if I'm going to pay for it... then the choice is part mine too.

54 posted on 05/23/2005 11:08:46 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: yama426
You say in the main so I guess well disagree about when a person reaches adulthood.

I'd like to have the age at 18, but would settle for 17, for this particular question.

55 posted on 05/23/2005 11:13:19 AM PDT by gridlock (ELIMINATE PERVERSE INCENTIVES)
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To: Tarheel1
Re: "FWIW I would like to see Roe overturned. Like most issues, I think this one best left up to the states."

Correct me if I am wrong but you are the one who made the coat hanger references, correct? Those kind of statements lead one to conclude you are an opponent of back ally abortions that most likely WILL occur if abortions are rendered illegal. You can not be for state authority on this matter without accepting that some states will elect to outlaw abortions. These two positions are not compatible.

I fear your position is not based on real thought on the matter but "I think" which rarely goes with real thought in modern America. I am having trouble taking you seriously. You reminded me of the girl I knew who was quiting her job at the abortion clinic because she could not stand working there. The "reasons" the women had abortion weighed on her mind, she couldn't take it any more. She did not know my views when I asked her (because after all she had hands on experience) "In your opinion do you think abortion kills a life?" Thinking she was among like minded people she answered "Yes it was killing the baby" Yet she still wanted abortion legal. Amazing, simply amazing.

To think people claim they do not know how well meaning Germans allowed the gassing of the Jews. I know how. They are no where near as well meaning as they like to think.
56 posted on 05/23/2005 11:31:36 AM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: kjam22

Not really Im more about choice and personal responsablity.

Your point about a 16 year old being under adult supervision I dont understand. If they are driving in their car alone are their parents still responsable for their actions or should the kid be?

We could say the same thing about any item in the budget. The USS Sequoia being in the budget was okay with you then? A yacht that was sold off in the 70s but just got bought again?

My ideal as a libertarian is to give people the rights to choose whatever they want to. I dont think you should make a decision for others but you seem to want to. To me a clump of cells isnt a human life.

If your going to go all balistic about this abortion stuff then why dont you tell me how you feel about Sun Hudson. Heres a living baby that was killed!

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=sun+hudson

Its hypocracy to say Im about killing babies in the womb (they arent even babies IMO) when laws are now in place to kill off living babies and you dont even mention that.


57 posted on 05/23/2005 11:33:46 AM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: gridlock

Yeah its a tough one.

Im curious if you think alcohol should be 21 or if across the board it should be a certain age.


58 posted on 05/23/2005 11:35:00 AM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: yama426
To me a clump of cells isnt a human life.

Then where did you come from, FRiend?

59 posted on 05/23/2005 11:37:34 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm a shallow, demagoguic sectarian because it's easier than working for a living.)
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Comment #60 Removed by Moderator

To: Tarheel1

I assume you are being sarcastic. 8^>


61 posted on 05/23/2005 11:38:58 AM PDT by RobRoy (Child support and maintenence (alimony) are what we used to call indentured slavery)
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To: yama426

I assume you are being sarcastic. 8^>


62 posted on 05/23/2005 11:39:53 AM PDT by RobRoy (Child support and maintenence (alimony) are what we used to call indentured slavery)
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To: yama426
You can bring whatever else in to the mix that you want to talk about.... but the bottom line concerning abortion is that most 16 year olds that get an abortion without thier parents knowing about it, are being funded by yours and my tax dollars. It shouldn't be difficult to understand that therefore the issue is not about freedom of choice. It is not an issue between a woman and her doctor (because we're paying for a percentage of them). It is about women being given the right to kill their own babies. And you know... as much as I think that in and of itself damages our society, it is worse to me when we let our government pay for the murders.
63 posted on 05/23/2005 11:40:25 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: Mark in the Old South

You dont know him but you can know of him. Surely you arent saying that we should kill LIVING babies!

Thats what happened not too long ago. Sun Hudson. Read up professor.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&q=sun+hudson

http://www.nbc5.com/health/4286333/detail.html??z=dp&dpswid=1167317&dppid=65194

Yeah you should have a hard time taking me seriously, your completely dismissing fact.

Kids are starving right now, this instant and it isnt because some fat kid stole their lunch money.


64 posted on 05/23/2005 11:42:16 AM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: Tarheel1

I suspected as much, and thus only criticized your legal reasoning about the application of the 'right' to minors, and included the parenthetical 'unfortuantely'.

Yes, it is best left to the states, as it was before Roe. I say that even though I would very much like to limit abortions to 'triage' abortions, in which the child must be sacrificed to save the life of the mother (I might be content to grant an exception for rape and incest--though as an Orthodox Christian, I believe that abortion is homocide, and thus in almost all circumstances murder, I am not certain that the state has a place forcing women to bear the podvig (a term in our tradition for a spiritual burden) of carrying to term a child engendered by rape or incest).


65 posted on 05/23/2005 11:44:32 AM PDT by The_Reader_David (Christ is Risen! Christos Anesti! Khristos Voskrese! Al-Masih Qam! Hristos a Inviat!)
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To: kjam22

So you can bring the tax dollars in the mix but I cant mention how were killing living kids like Sun Hudson?

Ok since were on the tax dollar subject lets talke about the 15 billion in pork that got shoved through.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-11-21-budget-bill-extras_x.htm


$75,000 for renovating the Merry Go Round Playhouse in Auburn, N.Y.
$100,000 for a weather museum in Punxsutawney, Pa.
$800,000 for "soybean rust research" in Ames, Iowa.
$75,000 for "hides and leather research" in Wyndmoor, Pa.
$1,593 for potato storage in Madison, Wis.
$1 million for a world birding center, Texas.
$150,000 to pay for beaver management and damage in Wisconsin.
$200,000 for the American Cotton Museum in Greenville, Texas.
$100,000 for a swimming pool in Ottawa, Kan.
$70,000 for a "Paper Industry International Hall of Fame" in Appleton, Wis.
$1.5 million for the Rep. Richard Gephardt Archive at the Missouri Historical Society.

Those are some of the pork projects going on right now...which one is your favorite? I like the Paper Industrys Hall of Fame the best (sarcasm).


66 posted on 05/23/2005 11:49:24 AM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: Tax-chick

I came from Mom and Dad. I was part of him, then her but not the actual individual me until I was out of the womb, umbilical cut.

I also come from Nevada but thats a different story.

Whered you come from?


67 posted on 05/23/2005 11:52:07 AM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: yama426

I'm bringing the tax issue into the debate as it pertains to abortion. You're chasing a red herring. We all agree that government spends to much money on junk. Do you also agree that abortion should not be federally funded? Or do you favor government funding abortions? That's a pretty simple straight forward question regarding abortion, which is the topic of this thread.


68 posted on 05/23/2005 11:54:12 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: grellis

...or a human.


69 posted on 05/23/2005 12:00:03 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: yama426
I think abortion should be a choice left to that individual.

Which individual?

Cordially,

70 posted on 05/23/2005 12:02:21 PM PDT by Diamond (Qui liberatio scelestus trucido inculpatus.)
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To: kjam22

Fair question I think the person should pay for it on their own. Of course wheres a teenage kid going to get cash for an abortion? Parents probably. So maybe theyll have to do what you want anyways and talk to the parents about it.

I could go on and on about situations I see right now. Messed up kids living with grandma and grandpa, who arent thrilled because their kids were irresponsable with birth control then ditched the babies.

I think its crazy that I get flamed for suggesting that parents should take some responsability earlier and teach their kids about sex. If you made sex illegal what would happen? Its like some people have the same logic as prohibition. Make it illegal and it will never happen. Right....

What I dont understand is how people can say Im into baby killing and have no explanation for Sun Hudson or cases Ive seen like kids with spinal bifeda where there is so much pain that I think they would have been better off aborted. But notice I NEVER say that I am the ONE to make that DECISION for them. All in all Id rather be more on the side of freedom for people to choose whether to bring a kid into a horrible situation healthwise or a abusive home. Or even a perfect situation but maybe the parents want to be more secure and mature.

Sun Hudson, since some people wont even click a link was
"A critically ill 5-month-old baby who Texas Children's Hospital says cannot be saved was to be taken off life support after a judge's ruling lifted an injunction that had prevented doctors from halting care they believe is futile."


71 posted on 05/23/2005 12:05:50 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: yama426
To me a clump of cells isnt a human life.

How did your life begin?

Cordially,

72 posted on 05/23/2005 12:06:48 PM PDT by Diamond (Qui liberatio scelestus trucido inculpatus.)
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To: yama426
The first link you provided is useless. If you want me to see something pick one. The second was better. However it leaves to to ask just what are you suggesting?

I am against abortion AND I am against cutting off feeding tubes. The two are linked but it has been my experience those FOR abortion are FOR euthanasia.

What I do not get is what you are trying to say. Speak clearly and stop trying to be coy with your responses.
73 posted on 05/23/2005 12:08:41 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: Diamond

The individual who is carrying the baby.

Do you think you should make that choice for them?


74 posted on 05/23/2005 12:08:46 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: Diamond

I think youd say a miracle of God or something.

If you want to know when life begins IMO it's when your umbilical is cut. Until then you arent an individual.


75 posted on 05/23/2005 12:13:51 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: yama426
Your line of reasoning is rambling and disjointed. Which of those items fund the murder of people?

You are off topic.

In a past line of work I would have described your speech as "loose and tangential". You have hear this before I bet.
76 posted on 05/23/2005 12:21:16 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: yama426
The individual who is carrying the baby.

Carrying the what?

If you want to know when life begins IMO it's when your umbilical is cut. Until then you arent an individual.

Your statement is not connected to reality, as you yourself tacitly admit above.

Cordially,

77 posted on 05/23/2005 12:22:12 PM PDT by Diamond (Qui liberatio scelestus trucido inculpatus.)
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To: yama426

More examples of loose and tangential speech?


78 posted on 05/23/2005 12:22:25 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: Mark in the Old South


So your against abortion but dont give a flying @$%@ about a kid that starves to death or is put to death like Sun Hudson?

How humane of you....

Im basically saying its hypocracy to have your viewpoint.

You are against abortions but have no plan for someone who will be abandoned, neglected or abused. What, is Mark in the Old South going to adopt them all? Who are you to decide for them? Who died and made you the Queen of England?


Speaking of coy whats up with that fat kid stealing lunch money comment. Your joking about starving kids? I dont find that very funny but humor over the internet is a little bit hard to read I guess.


79 posted on 05/23/2005 12:24:46 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: Mark in the Old South

lovely argument but didnt address the points Ive said.


80 posted on 05/23/2005 12:27:50 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: yama426
You are confusing good reflexes with good judgment.
81 posted on 05/23/2005 12:30:31 PM PDT by penowa
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To: Diamond

Fair enough but you like several others have nothing to say about Sun Hudson or any solutions other than letting kids starve.

How humane you are to defend lives that will be lived out in pain and suffering...in abusive homes or maybe no home at all.

Talk about denying reality.


82 posted on 05/23/2005 12:31:06 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: yama426
Re: "So your against abortion but dont give a flying @$%@ about a kid that starves to death or is put to death like Sun Hudson?"

Knock it off and take your Haldol. Your assume a person who disagrees with you "dont give a flying @$%@ about a kid that starves to death or is put to death like Sun Hudson?"

You clearly ignored my previous post to you. It is rare for me to run into a person who is for abortion who is not for starving babies like Sun. Since you are FOR abortion I bet your position on cutting the feeding tube is okay but regrettable. I am against BOTH.

A few notes about your erratic and illiterate posts. They would be better received at the DU. Go away troll
83 posted on 05/23/2005 12:31:52 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: Diamond

So well just leave it to you to define life then since you like know some latin on something.

Yeah.


84 posted on 05/23/2005 12:32:34 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: yama426

You didn't read my post very well. Which of those items fund killing people?

Until you answer that, the point is off topic. Post a new thread if you want to have a debate about the budget. This topic is abortion and your "points" in the post I responded to has nothing to do with abortion.


85 posted on 05/23/2005 12:35:27 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: penowa

Important to have good reflexes in many things...riding Yamahas for example.

Id say good judgement could save at times you but reflexes save you when your racing in the desert everytime. Come out here and race sometime youll see what I mean. If you ride of course.


86 posted on 05/23/2005 12:35:33 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: Mark in the Old South

Ok well another poster was mentioning funding and then dismissed the pork as a red herring. But as a libertarian its more than a red herring to me personally.

Ill try to get back on topic.


87 posted on 05/23/2005 12:36:59 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: penowa

To follow up many would have to say that riding a Yamaha through the desert doing 95 or 100mph 5th gear pinned is a lack of good judgement.

Even I question my good judgement when Im on the start gate revving the throttle.

Yet who are you to decide if/when I can ride my 426?


88 posted on 05/23/2005 12:40:20 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: yama426
The person was making a point about abortion and mentioned funding as an augment to their outrage, hardly justification for your ridiculous rants and wild-eyed ravings.
89 posted on 05/23/2005 12:42:36 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South (Sister Lucia of Fatima pray for us)
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To: eureka!
"This court has held one under 18 cannot get the death penalty for anything because of his or her youth. I wonder if age will matter in this case. Should be interesting."

Given the courts stance that anyone under 18 is to immature to understand the consequences of their actions, common sense dictates that the parental notification should be a legal dictate.

Any other ruling would undermine the rational used to exclude the execution of those under 18.

I can't wait to see how they get around their own noose. Unfortunately, I expect they will rule that parental notification laws are unconstitutional.

Let's see, when under 18 you are to immature to drink, to immature to smoke, to immature to serve in the armed forces, and to immature to vote....yet you can request to have a major medical procedure performed without notifying your legal guardian. Ohhh the hypocricy....
90 posted on 05/23/2005 12:43:51 PM PDT by PigRigger (Send donations to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org)
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To: yama426
So well just leave it to you to define life then since you like know some latin on something.

Define what?

How humane you are to defend lives that will be lived...

You are contradicting yourself again.

You have admitted that these lives you are talking about being lived are babies and that they are individuals. Just as you were at one time. I don't need to define life; you have done it yourself.

These are the size that your feet were about 10 weeks after you were conceived. At that time, what if your mother had thought that your life would be lived out in pain and suffering...in abusive homes or maybe no home at all?

Cordially,

91 posted on 05/23/2005 12:44:12 PM PDT by Diamond (Qui liberatio scelestus trucido inculpatus.)
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To: yama426

I'm from Oklahoma, the cultural center of the Universe.


92 posted on 05/23/2005 12:54:35 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm a shallow, demagoguic sectarian because it's easier than working for a living.)
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To: Mark in the Old South

Cute. I like that round about attack telling me to do drugs. Hey the thing is, Ill fight for you to use anything you want if you could handle it.

I dont do prescription meds, I prefer beer and skoal, especially when Im wrenching.

I think your ignoring the fact that I asked for solutions to kids in need but you have none and your just mad because I called you on what I see is hypocracy.

Dont worry Ill go away soon. Ill be riding, you be you.


93 posted on 05/23/2005 12:59:40 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: Diamond

So you're the Queen of England now as well I see.


94 posted on 05/23/2005 1:17:23 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: Diamond

If my mom was a crank addict and going to let me get raped (happened recently here) then yes Id prefer not to be born.

If my mom and dad (different case) let raw sewage seep for months into our home and I had to go to school smelling like that yet having no hot water to shower then yes Id prefer if I had never been born.

If I was going to be born only to be starved to death and live a miserable life of pain, then yes, Id like the option of mom terminating me.

In theory your correct. In a perfect world maybe youd even fund some solutions, maybe more than I would. But real life shows more than your baby pictures.

If that pair of feet was going to end up in any of the scenarios above or many many other cases then yes, I would give the right to abort.

Ive seen some nasty stuff in real life.

You should get out more.

Way to cut my quote off to try to prove your point...

Cordially,


95 posted on 05/23/2005 1:25:35 PM PDT by yama426 (91 octane)
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To: PigRigger

Re#90 My point exactly, albeit much better stated...


96 posted on 05/23/2005 1:58:34 PM PDT by eureka! (It will not be safe to vote Democrat for a long, long, time...)
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To: Mr. Lucky
I'm just now reading through the further comments...not sarcasm, not a parent, just some kind of soulless, illogical excuse for something. Not sure what. I'm thinking it is some form of troll.
97 posted on 05/23/2005 2:08:59 PM PDT by grellis (Will zot for cowbells)
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To: Asphalt

How come minorities haven't caught on to the fact that planned parenthood has set up shop mostly only in their communities to kill a far larger amount of their kids through abortion?

It's an outrage.


98 posted on 05/23/2005 2:12:11 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: yama426; Mark in the Old South; Diamond
I'm trying to make some kind of sense out of your posts but you are nearly incoherent. Try to cut back on the ramblings. If we care about your vehicles or where you live, we'll look into your profile, if you're around long enough to have one.

Here's a question that even someone not well versed in Latin can try to answer: At what stage of development is unique DNA created?

It is a simple question. Here's a hint: the answer does not have to do with starving kids, motorcycles, or even political leanings. I am looking for a fact here, not a preference. A biological fact.

99 posted on 05/23/2005 2:20:30 PM PDT by grellis (Will zot for cowbells)
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To: grellis

It's funny that Senator Maxine Waters has the same definition of "human life" as yama###. "Life begins when the umbilical cord is cut ... um, unless you might be poor, or handicapped, or a nuisance to your parents, or something."


100 posted on 05/23/2005 4:17:10 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I'm a shallow, demagoguic sectarian because it's easier than working for a living.)
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