Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Church sign sparks debate
The Digital Courier ^ | May 24, 2005 | By JOSH HUMPHRIES

Posted on 05/24/2005 8:17:58 AM PDT by BigFinn

FOREST CITY -- A sign in front of a Baptist church on one of the most traveled highways in the county stirred controversy over religious tolerance and first-amendment rights this weekend.

A sign in front of Danieltown Baptist Church, located at 2361 U.S. 221 south reads "The Koran needs to be flushed," and the Rev. Creighton Lovelace, pastor of the church, is not apologizing for the display.

"I believe that it is a statement supporting the word of God and that it (the Bible) is above all and that any other religious book that does not teach Christ as savior and lord as the 66 books of the Bible teaches it, is wrong," said Lovelace. "I knew that whenever we decided to put that sign up that there would be people who wouldn't agree with it, and there would be some that would, and so we just have to stand up for what's right."

Seema Riley, a Muslim, who was born in Pakistan and reared in New York, was one of those upset by the sign.

She moved to Rutherford County for the "small town friendly" atmosphere, she said. When she saw the sign on the side of the highway Saturday she felt angered and threatened.

"We need a certain degree of tolerance," said Riley. "That sign doesn't really reflect what I think this county is about."

She said that according to Islamic faith, a follower does not even touch the Koran without going through a ritual cleansing. Muslims believe the physical book to be a sacred item that is treated with respect and reverence, much like the image of Jesus in Christianity, according to a report on National Public Radio.

"For someone to put that sign up -- the person just didn't understand -- didn't take into consideration what putting up that sign means," said Riley. "I don't think it should be posted on a sign in public viewing on the highway to create a hostile environment for me."

The appearance of the sign follows a national news story from last week. Newsweek magazine retracted a story reporting that military guards at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay flushed a copy of the Koran down the toilet during interrogation of a detainee. The Newsweek story sent Washington in a frenzy and was blamed for igniting Muslim riots and deaths abroad, including a particularly violent outburst in Afghanistan.

"Our creed as a Christian, or a Protestant, or a Baptist church -- of course we don't have a creed but the bible -- but we do have the Baptist faith and message that says that we should cling to the 66 books of the Holy Bible and any other book outside of that claiming to know the way of God or claiming to be God's word is automatically written off and is trying to defeat people from the way of true righteousness inside of our viewpoint in how we view the word of God," Lovelace said.

"Putting such a sign in a public place is an un-American example of intolerance, of aggressive disrespect for other citizens' deeply held views," said Donald Searing, Burton Craige Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. "This is the sort of attitude and action that seriously endangers the liberty which lies at the heart of our democracy. It is also a good reminder that just because one may have the legal right to say something, doing so may not be morally, socially or politically desirable."

When Lovelace was asked whether he considered before he put the sign up that there may be some consequences or that some people may be angered, he said he was aware of the likelihood of angering some people.

"Well, I thought about it and I said there may be people who are offended by it but the way I look at it, Jesus told his followers that if the world hates you, don't feel bad because they hated me first," said Lovelace. "If we stand for what is right and for God's word and for Christianity then the world is going to condemn us and so right away when I got a complaint I said 'well somebody's mad, somebody's offended, so we must be doing something right.'"

Danieltown Baptist Church belongs to the Sandy Run Baptist Association and the association's Director of Missions the Rev. Jim Diehl said that Lovelace's opinion does not necessarily reflect that of that organization.

"Each of the churches of the Sandy Run Baptist Association are autonomous bodies," said Diehl. "Each church can develop a stance on doctrinal issues and can develop its own stance on moral issues."

The Rev. Billy Honeycutt, of the Green River Baptist Association said that he hopes that those who see the sign keep tolerance in mind.

"Respecting religion is important and respecting other people is important," said Honeycutt. "Hopefully, a lot of people will have that thought when they see the sign."

Following the religious controversy at a church in Waynesville where several members were asked to leave in what was termed a dispute over politics, several groups threatened to boycott the entire town due to the actions of one preacher.

Director of the Rutherford County Chamber of Commerce Bill Hall said he does not think that the Danieltown sign will have a negative impact on the county's tourism or economic vitality.

"It is unfortunate that things like that happen and it certainly doesn't represent Rutherford County," said Hall. "I think that most people will understand that that is not a common attitude in this community."

Lovelace said he felt it was the work of God to display the sign and that no one in the church has spoken up against it to him.

He said the church has 55 members on the roster and he has only received one angry phone call since the sign was posted.

"We have a good group of people," said Lovelace.

Lovelace said the sign changes every week.

"About Friday or Saturday we will have a new sign," he said. "It should state to some effect 'Where are your treasures? Are they at the flea market or are they in heaven?'"

Lovelace said that he does not have anything against the flea market that recently opened up down the street from the church.

"I enjoy a good flea market, but if people can be down there at eight o'clock why can't they be at church at 11," he said.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: baptist; floater; flushing; koran; newsweek; sign
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-208 next last
No comment needed.
1 posted on 05/24/2005 8:17:59 AM PDT by BigFinn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

Terrorist loving ACLU will probably jump on this.


2 posted on 05/24/2005 8:20:36 AM PDT by Piquaboy (22 year veteran of the Army, Air Force and Navy, Pray for all our military .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

A real professional marketer, isn't he?

Any wonder why the church has only 55 members?


3 posted on 05/24/2005 8:20:50 AM PDT by Air Conditioned Gypsy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

OMG!! A christian church that actually preaches that Islam is not the way!!! HORRORS!!! This practice of actually preaching the tenets of your belief must be stopped before it becomes a habit!!!


4 posted on 05/24/2005 8:20:56 AM PDT by Dreagon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Constitution Day

NC pingy.


5 posted on 05/24/2005 8:21:42 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

I don't know who's a bigger dumbass - Creighton Lovelace or Seema Riley.


6 posted on 05/24/2005 8:22:04 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

That doesn't seem to be "one of the most traveled highways"


7 posted on 05/24/2005 8:22:14 AM PDT by soccer_linux_mozilla (I believe in the potential of Open Source software: Linux, Mozilla, Firefox, OpenOffice,etc)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Air Conditioned Gypsy

They used to have 100 members, but the snakes have removed a few from the rolls.


8 posted on 05/24/2005 8:22:29 AM PDT by Phantom Lord (Advantages are taken, not handed out)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

>>"That sign doesn't really reflect what I think this county is about." <<

Uhhh...Free Speech?

The Pastor is right, but I fear his method is off. It would be a better thing for him to have a series of sermons that tactfully deconstruct the farse of Islam, but putting up such a sign is only bringing trouble on your head.


9 posted on 05/24/2005 8:23:27 AM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow ("Para espanol, marque el dos.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

Fine evangelist. I'm sure Muslims will now buy the bible in droves.


10 posted on 05/24/2005 8:24:43 AM PDT by followerofchrist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ItsOurTimeNow
his method is off.

Sounds like a last ditch effort to boost low turnout for his sermons.

My bet is that the Baptist organization will soon "move him on" to another pasture.

11 posted on 05/24/2005 8:25:40 AM PDT by Air Conditioned Gypsy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn
"This is the sort of attitude and action that seriously endangers the liberty which lies at the heart of our democracy. It is also a good reminder that just because one may have the legal right to say something, doing so may not be morally, socially or politically desirable." I'll bet you dollars to donuts that this same professor is a Ward Churchill supporter.
12 posted on 05/24/2005 8:28:34 AM PDT by Millee (So you're a feminist......isn't that cute??)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: followerofchrist

Their church will mysteriously burn down within a month. Bet the farm on it...


13 posted on 05/24/2005 8:31:02 AM PDT by Russ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Dreagon
OMG!! A christian church that actually preaches that Islam is not the way!!! HORRORS!!! This practice of actually preaching the tenets of your belief must be stopped before it becomes a habit!!!

Actually, I thought the tenets of his belief had to do with Jesus Christ. Why is he bad-mouthing another religion instead of preaching Christ? Do you believe that you have to tear down other religions to preach the Gospel?

14 posted on 05/24/2005 8:38:17 AM PDT by oremites
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

It is humiliating to Christians. The church sign resembles the one of rundown used car dealership. And the level of "spiritual guidance" is similar. Of course, it is the church's right to convey any nonviolent message to the members. There is no debate here.


15 posted on 05/24/2005 8:40:53 AM PDT by Neocon Shavuz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

Hmm. We're at war with extremists from the Muslim religion, and a church that already believes them all to be damned issues a message in support of alleged action that malign the Muslim religion, and you guys jump on it as un-Christian.


16 posted on 05/24/2005 8:44:15 AM PDT by TeenagedConservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Millee
"Putting such a sign in a public place is an un-American example of intolerance, of aggressive disrespect for other citizens' deeply held views," said Donald Searing, Burton Craige Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. "

Funny we missed this indignation when "Piss Christ" was making the rounds. The preacher should have declared his sign a work of Art
17 posted on 05/24/2005 8:48:01 AM PDT by Old North State
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Air Conditioned Gypsy

Compared to the size of the city, the church is not small. Forest City itself is so small, you can't even locate it on the map. (BTW its west of Charlotte, NC.)


18 posted on 05/24/2005 8:54:25 AM PDT by blueberry12
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: followerofchrist

My thinking also. You don't win converts to Christianity by going into attack mode.


19 posted on 05/24/2005 9:01:39 AM PDT by taxesareforever (Once was a Pepsi drinker)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Air Conditioned Gypsy
My bet is that the Baptist organization will soon "move him on" to another pasture.

You have no understanding of how the Baptist church works.

20 posted on 05/24/2005 9:13:34 AM PDT by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

Anyone want to start a pool on when thic church is burned down, or the pastor beheaded, by Religion of Peace (tm) members?


21 posted on 05/24/2005 9:13:39 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PAR35

Maybe Baptist denominations don't force pastors to resign if they screw up.

Other denominations do.


22 posted on 05/24/2005 9:16:55 AM PDT by Air Conditioned Gypsy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

So sorry, Seema, that your feelings are hurt, but gee - that's your problem. If you can't handle freedom of speech, you can always go home.


23 posted on 05/24/2005 9:19:14 AM PDT by ArmyTeach (Pray daily for our troops.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: taxesareforever

I agree with this fella...Call a spade a spade...Only one way to God...That's thru Jesus Christ...That's the fact of it...Any murdering cult teaches otherwise, drag 'em thru the mud...

This national (probably international by now) attention may get this church more members...Lot of Christians out there who will not tolerate Satanic cult views regardless of that being the 'American' way...

That's why we have millions of illegal aliens in this country...That's why your kids may grow up into queerdom...That's why we had 9/11...We are way too tolerant...


24 posted on 05/24/2005 9:21:20 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: wideawake

Me neither, but your saying so seems a bit harsh.


25 posted on 05/24/2005 9:22:33 AM PDT by Romulus (Der Inn fließt in den Tiber.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn
"Putting such a sign in a public place is an un-American example of intolerance, of aggressive disrespect for other citizens' deeply held views," said Donald Searing, Burton Craige Professor of Political Science at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

Wrongo! It's an entirely American example of free speach!

26 posted on 05/24/2005 9:27:27 AM PDT by Ukiapah Heep (Shoes for Industry!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Romulus
Well, as a FReeper whose brother is fighting overseas in Muslim lands I have to say that I have no sympathy for Seema Riley or her "offended" coreligionists, and I likewise have no sympathy for grandstanding charlatans like Creighton Lovelace who provide fodder for the Newsweeks of the world.

His loud mouth and her whining may be amusing stateside, but it feeds the destabilizers overseas.

27 posted on 05/24/2005 9:29:29 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: TeenagedConservative
It is unChristian. Evangelism is bringing the good news that Jesus is Lord, not focusing on the bad news that Mohammed was a false prophet.

You don't witness to people by insulting them for no reason.

28 posted on 05/24/2005 9:33:43 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

Chapel Hill Isn't that the school that attempted to keep the
Christians from a club-the school that has discriminated against Christians?Seem to recall where the US supremes stepped in and decided Chapel Hill had bad policy a few short years ago. Everything the Prof said can be reasonably applied to the school he teaches at and their
intolerance of Christians.


29 posted on 05/24/2005 9:36:58 AM PDT by StonyBurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Air Conditioned Gypsy

Baptists are not denominational in the traditional sense. As long as the preacher can keep most of the deacons and the big givers happy, there is nothing the larger church can do to make him go away. Ordination and pastor selection is handled by the local congregation. The most that the larger church can do is throw them out of the convention.

There is no higher authority as in a Methodist, Episcopal or Catholic church. There is not even a body of equals which can discipline, as in the Presbyterian system. So there is no 'organization to move him on' or 'denomination' to force him to resign.


30 posted on 05/24/2005 9:38:07 AM PDT by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: wideawake
You don't witness to people by insulting them for no reason.

Sometimes you need to swat a mule with a board to get its attention before you can explain to it what it needs to do.

32 posted on 05/24/2005 9:40:06 AM PDT by PAR35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: ItsOurTimeNow
his method is off

Ya think?

By this "thinking", DUmmie trolling on FR about the crimes of the election-stealing "Chimpus Khan" would be a great way to convert people to liberalism.

33 posted on 05/24/2005 9:42:30 AM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: oremites

IMO the Jews killed one of their own because they believed
he was badmouthing their religious beliefs. He said much about false religion. And IMO Islam is a false religion.
Jesus declared "I AM the way the truth ,and the life .No man comes to the Father but by Me." Jesus taught "I AM the true vine." Jesus declared "I and the Father are one."And for what Jesus claimed-and did-- he was nailed to the cross
with common criminals. And neither the Jews , Nor the Muslims have manifested much tolerance of Christianity.


34 posted on 05/24/2005 9:47:02 AM PDT by StonyBurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: StonyBurk
IMO the Koran is Fraud-- CRAP and not worth the paper it is printed on.

Agreed. I just think its bad marketing.

35 posted on 05/24/2005 9:48:00 AM PDT by Air Conditioned Gypsy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: taxesareforever

I hear the robot in Star Wars attempted to get Luke
Skywalker to turn from the Dark side by preaching "Love".
Didn't win any convert did he?


36 posted on 05/24/2005 9:51:13 AM PDT by StonyBurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Air Conditioned Gypsy
Agreed. I just think its bad marketing.

Me, too, but part of me wants to buy this pastor a beer!

I guess there's no chance of him taking me up on it, is there?

37 posted on 05/24/2005 9:54:31 AM PDT by hunter112 (Total victory at home and in the Middle East!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: doc30

Am reading "When the Wicked Seize a city:A grim look at the
future and a Warning to the church " by Chuck and Donna McIlhenny -whose church was burned down by the peaceful homosexuals of SanFrancisco.IMO these worship the same false
religion. Yet the queers and the rears(Muslims) both claim to be people of peace .


38 posted on 05/24/2005 9:55:26 AM PDT by StonyBurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: oremites

OMG!! A christian church that actually preaches that Islam is not the way!!! HORRORS!!! This practice of actually preaching the tenets of your belief must be stopped before it becomes a habit!!!



Actually, I thought the tenets of his belief had to do with Jesus Christ. Why is he bad-mouthing another religion instead of preaching Christ? Do you believe that you have to tear down other religions to preach the Gospel?


Show me in the bible where it says to "respect other religions". I believe it teaches a rather different message. The question is, who has the guts nowadays to admit that.


39 posted on 05/24/2005 9:56:06 AM PDT by Dreagon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Air Conditioned Gypsy

Yeah-like tha tepiscopal church-- or the Lutherans whose preachers continue to embrace sodomy and malign other churches.


40 posted on 05/24/2005 9:56:52 AM PDT by StonyBurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: All
Islam goes on the attack mode all the time and they are winning.

Christianity and Judaism need to grow balls and start fighting back!

41 posted on 05/24/2005 9:57:38 AM PDT by Evolution (Tolerance!? We don't need no stinking Tolerance ! ! !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: ArmyTeach

HUH? think you need to reread the page.


42 posted on 05/24/2005 9:58:17 AM PDT by StonyBurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: wideawake

The good news that Jesus is Lord also includes the good news that Mohammed is irrelevant.


43 posted on 05/24/2005 9:59:12 AM PDT by TeenagedConservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn
Aw Jeez!

We've done it now.

Every crazed Mohammedan in the world is gonna be rioting and shouting, "Death to America", "Death to the Christians", “Death to the Jews"...oh wait.
44 posted on 05/24/2005 9:59:35 AM PDT by WolfRunnerWoman (I want closure on the word "closure".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ArmyTeach

OOPs Wa sme needed to re-read your post. Me eyes is playin'tricks it's time I give 'em a rest. I do appologize
I seen the address-but missed Seema.


45 posted on 05/24/2005 10:00:11 AM PDT by StonyBurk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn

make your own sign>>>


46 posted on 05/24/2005 10:00:57 AM PDT by petercooper (Put Mark Levin on the Supreme Court.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: petercooper

http://www.churchsigngenerator.com/index_2.php


47 posted on 05/24/2005 10:01:20 AM PDT by petercooper (Put Mark Levin on the Supreme Court.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: StonyBurk

I don't know about the Baptist denominations.

But something tells me that they could get rid of a bad guy if they wanted to.

If he started marrying men and men, the church would find a quick way to get him out.


48 posted on 05/24/2005 10:01:58 AM PDT by Air Conditioned Gypsy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: BigFinn
This is America, free speech and all that. What in the world is wrong with all you people who want to apologize for disparaging the Koran, unbelievable!
49 posted on 05/24/2005 10:03:57 AM PDT by FenderMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wideawake

So your brother's fighting under a crusader's cross? All this time I thought he was in the US military.


50 posted on 05/24/2005 10:04:40 AM PDT by Romulus (Der Inn fließt in den Tiber.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200201-208 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson