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High Noon On The Border [CBS News reprints The Nation article from Marc Cooper]
The Nation, via CBS News ^ | 5/25/05 | Marc Cooper

Posted on 05/25/2005 3:58:46 PM PDT by lonewacko_dot_com

It's April Fools' Day and Congressman Tom Tancredo... sparks a prolonged standing ovation from the hundred or so assembled volunteers of the Minuteman Project as they kick off their month-long campaign to close down the Arizona-Mexico border. His presence here, at what is most definitely a fringe political event involving armed citizen patrols, is validation -- at least in the minds of the project organizers -- that their seal-the-borders message is finally resonating in Washington. The avenging angel of America's anti-immigrant movement, Tancredo leads seventy mostly back-bench, restrictionist House members in the Immigration Reform Caucus...

...It shouldn't be surprising that George W. Bush, rather than liberal Democrats, should be the target of so much cranked-up ire from the nativist right...

...After a barrage of anti-immigration bills fired off earlier in this legislative season, Senators McCain and Kennedy introduced in mid-May their much-awaited immigration overhaul proposal -- the first step toward comprehensive and bipartisan reform...

...The GOP's share of the Arizona Latino vote climbed to an all-time high of more than 40 percent in last November's presidential election. Pissing off a few Minuteman types might be a small price to pay to have the President become the champion of historic immigration liberalization and the elected official most responsible for delivering the Latino vote to the GOP...

...The danger is that the longer meaningful federal action lags, the more the populist right, the Minuteman-style groups and the Congressional Tancredos will be energized into action. Anti-immigration drives are now under way in about a dozen states...

...While Arizona's Democratic attorney general interpreted the law in a vary narrow way, rendering its effects minimal, Arizona's anti-immigration crusaders are hardly deterred; they believe they are surfing the crest of a breaking national political wave...

...While Pearce sees "momentum, lots of momentum" for his immigrant-crackdown message, other evidence indicates the restrictionist cause isn't quite as compelling at the grassroots. In spite of extraordinary media hype, including millions of dollars in free publicity doled out on a daily basis on CNN as Lou Dobbs aggressively championed its cause, the Minuteman Project was an unmitigated flop...

[Read the full four pages at the link]


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: aliens; immigrantlist; thenation
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1 posted on 05/25/2005 3:58:46 PM PDT by lonewacko_dot_com
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To: lonewacko_dot_com
"And in case anyone's wondering who it is that Tancredo and his supporters plan on fighting, fellow speaker Bay Buchanan, Pat's sister, spells it out: "Our message to Mr. Bush is that you have failed us! You have failed our children, Mr. Bush, because you allow drugs and criminals across the border. Mr. President, you have failed America." "

Tancredo has become nothing but a mouthpiece for Pat Buchanan. He has joined the anti-Bush ranks of Lindsey Ghram and McCain.

2 posted on 05/25/2005 4:03:57 PM PDT by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: bayourod
" Thanks to the ongoing crackdown, the coyotes' asking price has skyrocketed to $1,200 a head or more, but no one can detect any decline in the flow of about 1,800 people a day just through this one town. "(Alta, Mexico)

1800 per day at $1200 equals $2,160,000 per day income to this one town.

If a coyote can take ten peaple a day across the border his annual income would be $4,380,000.00. That's more than some FReepers make.

3 posted on 05/25/2005 4:12:59 PM PDT by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: bayourod; lonewacko_dot_com
I love immigrants (I'm married to one) but national sovereignty and respect for our laws has to come first.

I'm hopeful that once Pres. Bush gets the carrot (guestworker program) he will feel freer to use the stick (aggressive enforcement to stop or deport illegal immigrants).

The biggest tragedy will be if conservatives/Republicans split over this, which will give an opportunity for Clinton II.
4 posted on 05/25/2005 4:16:59 PM PDT by kenavi ("Remember, your fathers sacrificed themselves without need of a messianic complex." Ariel Sharon)
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To: lonewacko_dot_com
Amazing how the Pro-Illegal types dictionary equates Anti-Illegal-Immigrant with Anti-Immigrant. But I expect no less from folks who think being an American means you are either,
  1. A racist
    or
  2. A communist

If you oppose open borders and illegal-immigrants. Make no bones about it, these pro-illegal types have American blood on their hands, from the Children their illegal alien friends rape and kill, to the crimes their illegal alien friends commit.
5 posted on 05/25/2005 4:25:04 PM PDT by JustAnAmerican (Being Independent means never having to say you're Partisan)
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To: JustAnAmerican

I am getting sick and tired of politicians pandering to the Hispanic Supremacist lobby that think that illegal Mexicans are superior to all other people and that they do not have to abide by US law.


6 posted on 05/25/2005 4:44:13 PM PDT by Rosemont
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To: bayourod
We tried to "seal" a 66 mile section of the border in Operation Gatekeeper.

Double fences (some concrete and steel), guard towers, flood lights, infrared cameras, ground sensors, patrol roads, horse patrols, ATV patrols, 16 helicopters, fixed wing aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, trucks, and a ratio of 25 guards per mile were incorporated.

An estimated 30,000 to 40,000 get through each year anyway. Apply that ratio of 25 guards per mile to our 105,000 mile border/coastline and it comes out to over 2.5 million guards at a cost of $459,375,000,000.00, and still 47,670,000 to 63,630,000 people could cross undetected into the U.S. each year.

As long as men must come north to feed their families, and as long as America is dependent upon foreign laborers to replace the 40 million workers we have aborted since Roe v Wade, the border can never be "sealed". President Bush has the most practical answers.

7 posted on 05/25/2005 4:53:36 PM PDT by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: bayourod; gubamyster; HiJinx

Put up a wall bayourod. 47 to 63 million per year....probably been going on for quite some time.


8 posted on 05/25/2005 5:14:23 PM PDT by TheLion
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To: lonewacko_dot_com
Fact or Fiction: Illegals do the work that Americans won't do? (answer below) 5/25/05

Americans...

Since picking up the banner in the battle to secure our borders from the steady stream of illegals more than two years ago, Grassfire has heard (as many of you are as well) all the rhetoric from those who disagree with our position.

Now in an effort to help you bring greater clarity and understanding to the border crisis we attempt to dispel some of the half-truths and outright lies that are being told the American people regarding illegal immigration.

++Myth #1--Illegal aliens pay taxes that benefit our economy Not true. Most illegals are paid in cash and therefore pay no taxes.

Even in instances where they do pay taxes (only possible if they use a fraudulent social security number or tax ID) they don't pay enough to cover their expenses.

A visit to any L.A. County maternity ward will give you ample proof of this. There thousands of women each year have babies free of charge (and many return to have more).

Additionally, the vast majority learn who to use the system to acquire food stamps and financial assistance.

++ Myth #2--Illegals come to the U.S. for jobs to support their families back in their homeland.

This is partly true.

However record numbers of those illegally crossing the borders are women and children! What' s more, there are also record numbers of dead-beat dads who simply abandon their families.

++ Myth #3--Illegals don't affect politics because they can't vote

Not true.

The fact that they are counted in the census gives them political power. Since representatives in Congress are fixed, it creates a situation in state's that have a heavy influence of illegals.

Those "illegals" will likely be represented. As such, it takes away representation from people in other states--people who are here legally.

++ Myth #4--Illegals do the work that Americans won't do

Not true.

Americans will do the work provided they are paid a reasonable wage. But profit-greedy employers and corporations are increasingly favoring cheap labor. Their profits soar, but at the expense of American taxpayers who have to subsidize the labor costs by supplying the illegal workforce (and their families) with welfare, education, medical, housing assistance. Employers of these people simply turn a deaf ear.

++ Myth #5--Illegal Immigration doesn't really affect me

Not true.

As we have reported in the past, in non-border states like Connecticut, North Carolina, Georgia and New Jersey, illegal immigration is rampant. That means in each of these states, benefits allocated to citizens are being taxed and stressed by illegal infiltration. If the problem becomes severe enough (as in California and Arizona) those services dry up. In both L.A., and Tucson, AZ hospitals have been forced to close due to the incredible strain of illegals.

+ + Your nation. Your borders. Your voice! Because you share Grassfire's concern for border security, we urge you to do two very important things:

First, take a moment to add your name to our "Secure Our Borders" petition by clicking below. As you can see, we are not against immigration, or even increasing the flow of legal immigration. Our concern is the increasing flow of illegals, and the threat to our security.

Click here to add your name to our petition:

http://www.grassfire.org/42/petition.asp?RID=7765254

After signing, we urge you to forward this message to 25-30 of your friends and family. This is not just a border state issue. Rather, it is a national epidemic that needs immediate addressing.

Grassfire is currently mobilizing tens of thousands of citizens who want Congress to aggressively respond to this obvious security threat. Over the next two weeks, we are urging those who have already signed our "Secure the Borders" petition to help us rally an additional 40,000 signers.

Once we reach the 200,000 threshold, Grassfire will take your petitions directly to Congress and demand the voice of the people be heard.

Thanks for taking immediate action with us.

Grassfire.org Alliance

P.S: Grassfire is continuing to build awareness and support for secured borders. Please forward this message to your friends and family, urging them to add their name to our "Secure Our Borders" petition:

http://www.grassfire.org/42/petition.asp?RID=7765254

+ + + + + + Today’s Headlines at Grassfire.org:

http://www.grassfire.org

9 posted on 05/25/2005 5:26:11 PM PDT by joesnuffy (The generation that survived the depression and won WW2 proved poverty does not cause crime)
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To: bayourod

What's in it for you?


10 posted on 05/25/2005 5:34:25 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: Trteamer

Read my profile page.


11 posted on 05/25/2005 5:39:19 PM PDT by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: Trteamer

You sound like a broken record.


12 posted on 05/25/2005 5:39:36 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: bayourod
Why is it a Republican President's responsibility to help the Demo's make up the voters they aborted?
(AND for the record, I'd run, jump, swim, crawl, flap my wings and try to fly into the USA to feed my kids too)
13 posted on 05/25/2005 5:41:47 PM PDT by investigateworld ( God bless Poland for giving the world JP II & a Protestant bump for his Sainthood!)
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To: bayourod
As long as men must come north to feed their families, and as long as America is dependent upon foreign laborers to replace the 40 million workers we have aborted since Roe v Wade, the border can never be "sealed". President Bush has the most practical answers.

If we need more foreign workers, we can let in more LEGAL immigrants. Illegal alien lawbreakers shouldn't be rewarded in any way for violating our country's immigration laws.

14 posted on 05/25/2005 5:42:12 PM PDT by judgeandjury
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To: Ben Ficklin

Is that you Ben? Lurking I see.
I figured that would get your goat. I'm still waiting for you to lay out your plan.


15 posted on 05/25/2005 5:42:34 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: bayourod
Tancredo has become nothing but a mouthpiece for Pat Buchanan. He has joined the anti-Bush ranks of Lindsey Ghram and McCain.

And there's bayourod, the mouthpiece for the socialists CBS and Nation magazine.

16 posted on 05/25/2005 5:43:55 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Trteamer
I'm sure you noticed that this article didn't say much about the bill that I support.

All they said was that Cornyn will have a "more restrictive" bill. "More Restrictive" as in no Green Cards.

Published by The Nation.

17 posted on 05/25/2005 5:51:08 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: judgeandjury
"If we need more foreign workers, we can let in more LEGAL immigrants."

That's what President Bush has been saying for at least ten years. Only his plan calls for temporary guest workers, not necessarily permanent residents.

19 posted on 05/25/2005 5:52:11 PM PDT by bayourod (Unless we get over 40% of the Hispanic vote in 2008, President Hillary will take all your guns away.)
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To: Ben Ficklin

So what's in this Cornyn bill?? Please tell me why you support it.


20 posted on 05/25/2005 5:59:07 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: judgeandjury
"we can let in more legal immigrants"

S1033-HR2330 proposes the creation of two new visas, the H5A and H5B,

The H5B would be used to convert the qualified illegals into visa holders.

The H5A would be used to allow in future guest workers. The quota on H5A is 400,000 per year with a contingency phrase to allow another 80,000.

21 posted on 05/25/2005 6:01:21 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: bayourod

OK. I read your profile page. You still don't know what you are talking about.


22 posted on 05/25/2005 6:01:25 PM PDT by Tripoli
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To: Trteamer
Actually, what's not in the Cornyn-Kyl bill is what's important.

No Green Cards.

23 posted on 05/25/2005 6:03:26 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Trteamer

No Green Cards-Path to Citizenship.


24 posted on 05/25/2005 6:06:35 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: lonewacko_dot_com
The Nation via CBS News

What's next...Pravda via USA Today?

25 posted on 05/25/2005 6:07:26 PM PDT by montag813
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To: Ben Ficklin

So, let me see, there are 12 million or more illegals here now. They don't respect our laws now so why would they give a rat's a** about some new bueracrats plan.

What kind of enforcement is there in this plan? My guess it's a lot like bass fishing, "Catch and Release".


26 posted on 05/25/2005 6:12:27 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: Trteamer

You should read the bill. Its S1033.


27 posted on 05/25/2005 6:14:52 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: bayourod
Pat Buchanan

'rod, you seem to have a thing for Buchanan. You mention his name over and over. Must be love!

28 posted on 05/25/2005 6:16:03 PM PDT by janetgreen
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To: Ben Ficklin

You just don't get it Ben, the invaders are here, they don't care about the laws. The government is corrupt in the fact that it won't enforce the laws. It's big business for all the government workers. The government knows who these invaders and their employers are. Got to keep the gravy train rolling ($$$).



29 posted on 05/25/2005 6:25:03 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: bayourod
re your home page .... you are correct the illegal problem will mean the end of the GOP, Bush's agenda is already dead because of the anger over illegal immigration, and if the GOP stays the open borders party (and they will with Bush in charge) they are dead too. 2006 is starting to look like another 1994, only this time it is the GOP that will get tossed in complete repudiation of Bush's immigration policies.
30 posted on 05/25/2005 6:27:02 PM PDT by jpsb (I already know I am a terrible speller)
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To: Trteamer
As I mentioned above, the quota will be about 480,000 per year.

This number is based on a study that found that 483,000 low skill-low pay jobs are being created each year.

Of course there is a protection clause for domestic workers which means that if you want the job, you can have it.

31 posted on 05/25/2005 6:33:14 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

So now there are 483,000 new jobs availiable for low wage/low skill workers. How convenient, and their families can collect welfare, free medical care, free tuition, afirmative action, etc.. And of course the evil corporations benefit, once they pay their taxes.

In reality, the only way to really prevent invaders is to physically protect our borders. All the rest is just pi**in in the wind.


32 posted on 05/25/2005 7:03:12 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: Trteamer

Maybe you can get your congressman to introduce a bill to build the fence and put a 100,000 marines on thr border. Land mines and all that.


33 posted on 05/25/2005 7:13:18 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin

Speaking of the military, an amendment by Virgil Goode just passed the House today authorizing the military on the borders. Although the Senate has told the American people to stuff it the last few times this same bill passed they're being watched very closely now. It's time for them to get with the program.


34 posted on 05/25/2005 7:18:56 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Ben Ficklin; weldgophardline

You vastly under-estimate the ability of The United States Marine Corp.


35 posted on 05/25/2005 7:19:09 PM PDT by Trteamer ( (Eat Meat, Wear Fur, Own Guns, FReep Leftists, Drive an SUV, Drill A.N.W.R., Drill the Gulf, Vote)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest

Is that all the information you have?


36 posted on 05/25/2005 7:21:38 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: joesnuffy

Thanks for your post. The myths being proclaimed loud and long are by those who profit most by them.


37 posted on 05/25/2005 7:28:11 PM PDT by EverOnward
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To: Ben Ficklin
Is that all the information you have?

What are you talking about, you brought up the military and I passed on the good news of Goode's amendment. It's just a matter of time now when the naysayers who claim the border can never be controlled are proven wrong.

38 posted on 05/25/2005 7:28:20 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Ben Ficklin

If you were looking for a link I can't find one yet but the final vote was 245 to 184. On the GOP side 13 RINOs voted no.


39 posted on 05/25/2005 7:41:41 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest; Ben Ficklin
I passed on the good news of Goode's amendment

"To amend title 10, United States Code, to authorize the Secretary of Defense to assign members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps, under certain circumstances and subject to certain conditions, to assist the Department of Homeland Security in the performance of border protection functions."

That is good news.

Don't you think its good news, Ben?

40 posted on 05/25/2005 7:48:58 PM PDT by skeeter ("What's to talk about? It's illegal." S Bono)
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To: skeeter

Google H.R. 1986


41 posted on 05/25/2005 7:49:42 PM PDT by skeeter ("What's to talk about? It's illegal." S Bono)
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To: skeeter; bayourod
Don't you think its good news, Ben?

I think it's good news, how about you bayo?

42 posted on 05/25/2005 7:51:22 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
"naysayers who claim the border can never be controlled"

I not aware of anyone who ever said that.

The issue has always been what you have to do to seal, close, control the border and how long do you have to do it. And of course, what about the canadian border with 1000 agents only?

43 posted on 05/25/2005 7:57:33 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Reaganwuzthebest; skeeter

Authorize or appropriate?


44 posted on 05/25/2005 7:59:42 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin; bayourod
I not aware of anyone who ever said that.

Read bayourod's post #7, if that's not saying the borders can't be sealed than I don't know what is.

As far as the Canadian border: put the military up there too, we're vulnerable from terrorists and illegals entering there as well.

45 posted on 05/25/2005 8:05:36 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Ben Ficklin
Authorize or appropriate?

For now it's authorize.

46 posted on 05/25/2005 8:07:37 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Ben Ficklin
As I mentioned above, the quota will be about 480,000 per year.

Could you subtract that number from the total of illegals coming in per year and arrive at the number that will still come in illegally should the legislation pass? Or, possibly, more, since there would be a population of "legal" workers that look just like them to hide among, making it much harder to to spot an employer that hires them?

47 posted on 05/25/2005 8:08:55 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: lonewacko_dot_com
"the Minuteman Project was an unmitigated flop"

Sure it was. /sarcasm

48 posted on 05/25/2005 8:10:47 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Reaganwuzthebest; Ben Ficklin; skeeter
The only action that I see is that it was referred back to the subcommitte by the House's website.

Link

I have no problem with any legislation that Virgil Goode proposes, he ain't the grandstander backstabber like Tom Tancredo is.

49 posted on 05/25/2005 8:17:30 PM PDT by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane
It passed today:

he ain't the grandstander backstabber like Tom Tancredo is.

I'm sure congressman Goode is very pleased to know that Dane doesn't think he's a backstabber. How about the other 244 congressmen who voted for it, do you think they're backstabbers or is it only Tom Tancredo?

50 posted on 05/25/2005 8:23:31 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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