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Linux vs Microsoft XP: Optimizations Make Linux the Killer Desktop
Consulting Times ^ | 23 May 2005 | Tom Adelstein

Posted on 05/26/2005 8:45:19 AM PDT by ShadowAce

Last month, when I tested Linspire 5.0 for my series on Linux desktops for government enterprises, I discovered NVU. At the time, I realized something special had happened to the Linux application inventory. As the NVU Website states:

Finally! A complete Web Authoring System for Linux Desktop users as well as Microsoft Windows and Macintosh users to rival programs like FrontPage and Dreamweaver.

A tad skeptical, I didn't totally believe it. So, I downloaded NVU and tried it on a Fedora Core 3 desktop before I turned it lose on other Linux distributions. Having had to use MS Frontpage more than once on projects, I knew the good, the bad and the ugly of that application. The "good" was tainted with Frontpage extensions on the server side that slowed websites and took massive amounts of disk space. The supposedly WYSIWYG editor didn't always translate to what I had in mind when it went up on the web site.

NVU had all the good qualities of Frontpage without the unnecessary overhead and quirks that take up so much development time. What you see in NVU turns out to be exactly what you get. It's a better application than Frontpage and it's free, open source software.

That's just a prelude to this article. It demonstrates an example of how far Linux has come in the last year as a desktop. For end users Linux provides a superior user experience.

Making Headway

In April 1999, D.H. Brown Associates, Inc. published a report called Linux: How Good Is It? Hardly any archives exist today mentioning that story with the possible exception of this C/Net News article. The study dinged Linux for lacking features needed to make it a serious consideration as an operating system. The report said that Linux was good for file and print servers, Web servers, some scientific computing, and thin client computers. But, the DH Brown report said Linux lacked support for computers with multiple processors; failover and a "journaling" file system needed to reboot a crashed machine without having to reconstruct the system files.

From that point on, the kernel developers began focusing on Linux as an alternative to top-end, trusted UNIX and Windows NT servers. In short order, Linux became much more than a hobbyist system. It became a commercial, industrial strength system capable of competing and surpassing existing business servers. Only market politics, extensive lobbying and sweetheart deals have kept Linux from taking the server business completely away from Microsoft.

Now, that Linux has become the leading server platform in the commercial world, development has shifted to the desktop. Like the post-D.H. Brown period, a flurry of activity has put the Linux desktop in a position to become dominant. People who only looked at Linux six-months ago when O'Reilly & Associates released Exploring the JDS Linux Desktop will not believe the progress made since then.

JDS looked like the leading Linux desktop at the time. Today, it's behind the competition. And while a new release of JDS is forthcoming, it may also trail other Linux desktops in features and capabilities.

Desktops for the Enterprise

Imagine a situation where you don't have to activate Microsoft Client Access Licenses (CALS), manage Windows 2003 License Servers and an Active Directory or worry about support for old world Windows distributions. Also imagine an alternative desktop that provides complementary innovation, works well in existing Microsoft infrastructures and provides a real reduction in costs. Linux provides all of that.

Linux also can logon to an Active Directory like Windows desktops. The Linux logon manager, GDM can handle expired passwords. You can run Windows applications through terminal services using rdesktop without Citrix server extensions. The Evolution workgroup client works well with Exchange. You have interoperability with Microsoft Office file formats using Openoffice.org. You also have a safer browser experience with Firefox. Tweak Linux for pure desktop performance and it's fast, safer and more fun.

A decade ago, PC's were not the dominant corporate infrastructure. Though gaining market share, PC's still had to use terminal emulators to connect to mainframes and run applications off of a variety of heavy metal. I remember programming Oracle Financials where the PC logged on to a HP-UX server 1500 miles away. I also remember having to test forms and reports on another system on the other side of the continent. I also remember supporting a triage HMO application running on a mainframe 3000 miles away on terminal emulators.

The supposed magic of Microsoft and Sun has nothing to do with their great cleverness, marketing prowess or innovation. They happened to have the products people needed to expand during the uptake in the World Wide Web adoption period. IBM mainframes using SNA instead of TCP/IP and Novell with its ill advised bet on IPX/SPX instead of TCP/IP doomed both companies. Apple didn't join the world until the release of OS X. People bought computers in droves because they wanted to be "on-line" and Microsoft offered a low-cost way to do that. Profits were high in Internet Services and among telecom companies and Sun's expensive but stable servers didn't present a problem on the bottom line.

Today, the infrastructure of the Internet is fairly build-out. Companies all have Local Area Networks and high speed Internet access. Sun and Microsoft do not have the same "value proposition". Both companies still have expensive products at a time when they aren't the only game in town. Enterprises now look for value. The shift to value has opened the market for Linux on Mainframes, in clusters and giant grids of PCs. When you look at Google, you see a company that arrived because it went with value and exploited their low cost computing power. I can't imagine Google achieving what they have with expensive Sun or Microsoft servers.

OK. So like a decade ago, enterprises have an investment in an infrastructure that costs too much to maintain. Mainframes became almost extinct because the maintenance contracts cost more than replacing everything with PCs. The same holds true today only instead of mainframes, people look at the cost of software as a percentage of the cost of hardware.

Once software represented a small percent of the cost of hardware but today the tables have turned. Software, dangerous software, costs more than the hardware on which it sits. It also requires people to upgrade their hardware because the software wants more memory, larger and faster hard drives and more powerful CPUs. What didn't make sense ten years ago, doesn't make sense today either: If maintenance costs more than an alternative solution, then the alternative solution should be vigorously pursued. The cost of maintaining my IT infrastructure today is higher than modifying it. And, I don't have to deal with another monopoly and vendor lock-in if I do modify it. Ten years ago, it was a monopolistic IBM oppressing IT departments, today it's Microsoft.

One notable exception exists today that didn't exist a decade ago: I can use my existing hardware. The same Intel based commodity hardware runs Linux. Ten years ago, when you hauled off the mainframe, you had to buy new PCs, wire the building with ethernet, set up routers and switches and buy new software. Today, you can leave the hardware infrastructure in place, continue to use your investment in old apps or provide terminal servers so that your Linux desktop users can still use their Win32 applications.

If you work in an enterprise, you owe it to yourself to test the performance of the Linux desktops. You can find articles on the Internet about performance tuning by doing a Google search or you can take a look at a book by O'Reilly & Associates called Desktop Hacks. You can also read about performance tuning in this week's Linux in Government: Optimizing Desktop Performance, Part II.

For Consumers

The Linux desktop provides an alternative many consumers have embraced. On mailing lists and in forums you can see thousands of posts where people declare themselves "Microsoft free". People do want certain freedoms and few doubt that as a sociological fact. Microsoft costs money and time. They hassle people. Their product costs are high. Consumers can find comparable open source software for free.

The same links above can serve you well if you want to try Linux and optimize it's performance. You will discover that you can use less expensive hardware and your desktop will run faster than Windows XP. The Windows XP you buy today is four years old and the next release of Windows is slated for 2006. It's still not a safe operating system because security has been added after the fact - when people began screaming about spyware, identity theft, viruses and trojan horses. The open source community designed Linux with security in mind from the ground up. Windows XP with security enhancements is annoying. If you secure your system correctly, you'll spend a lifetime answering questions every time you want to visit a new web site on the Internet.

Consumers face the problem that the Microsoft monopoly dominates the retail market space. You can't walk into a store today and find a laptop loaded with Linux on the shelves of your computer store. When you shop on-line every manufacturer states that they recommend Microsoft Windows. Of course they do, they get money from Microsoft to say that. And as a member of the Justice department once explained to me, you can't stop Microsoft from giving marketing rebates to manufacturers.

Franklin D. Roosevelt once sent a message proposing the "Standard Oil" Monopoly Investigation in 1938. He wrote:

"The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself. That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power."

Many of us feel stuck today in various areas of our lives. We question many of the policies than govern us and wonder why we have to put up with them. I question how our government has allowed a bully to run amok controlling the computer market to the extent that it pervades what we can study in our educational systems. With enrollment in technical courses at a low peak perhaps it's because people don't see a future where Microsoft is the only option.

With the pending action in the European Union against Microsoft, perhaps the time has come once again for our legislators and regulators to question the existence of Microsoft. Old expensive software from Microsoft dominates the retail market. Microsoft's business practices still look like they effect a restraint of trade. In fact, if you go back to the 1999 trial, the issue of bundling software still remains unresolved. Not in the European Union where that's the central theme of their anti-trust action. But in the United States, Microsoft can still kill an unsuspecting business partner and take their market away. See Paula Rooney's article BlackBerry Killer? .

Some Final Thoughts

A friend and business partner recently commented that he felt like he was watching a comedy when he looked at the SNAFUs of Microsoft over the years. As Linux professionals, we both wonder how such a dull company could get into the position it holds. If people will start making real comparisons between Linux and Microsoft, then perhaps the comedy will end. At this point, you have to decide for yourself which is the right product for the times. I already have.


TOPICS: Technical
KEYWORDS: desktop; linux; microsoft
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To: FormerLib
I still remember what they pulled on the guys who did Stacker so I appreciate some of the grudge.

Apparently, you don't remember very much, because the trial court found that the Stacker didn't constitute willful infringement; ie. it wasn't intentional.
51 posted on 05/26/2005 4:10:13 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000

Actually, I was working as a computer tech at the time and I remember it better than someone who only read stories written about the trial.


52 posted on 05/26/2005 4:40:53 PM PDT by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: Seņor Zorro; zeugma
After about an hour of playing around, I have to say this is probably the best open source html editor I've used.. I wouldn't say it is anywhere Dreamweaver MX 04, but it is pretty close to Dreamweaver 3. As they expand their extensions this product should improve.. I wouldn't use it professionally, but for playing around, it isn't bad.
53 posted on 05/26/2005 4:53:28 PM PDT by mnehring (http://www.mlearningworld.com)
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To: ShadowAce
Xnux is a great OS.

XP is a great OS.

OSX is a great OS.

They all have their strengths.  They all have their weaknesses.

I wouldn't hire anyone who said any of those OS's, in their current forms, "sucks" because that person is probably narrow minded or inflexible or simply doesn't know enough about technology to be an asset to my organization.

 

54 posted on 05/26/2005 5:05:23 PM PDT by Psycho_Bunny (Every evil which liberals imagine Judaism and Christianity to be, islam is.)
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To: mnehrling
I'll have to download NVU tonite and compare it to Dreamweaver... I'll get back with you..

I downloaded it and so far I like it.

55 posted on 05/26/2005 5:28:53 PM PDT by amigatec (There are no significant bugs in our software... Maybe you're not using it properly.- Bill Gates)
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To: mnehrling
Years ago when I was still stuck in the windows world, I used to really like Homesite, as I really like dealing with raw HTML so I can have a nice clean page. I've used Quanta in the past few years, because I liked the way you could completely control the hotkeys to exactly the way you wanted it to do. Unfortunately, I've had difficulties getting a decent build of it recently, so I'm looking around for a new HTML editor.

So far it looks o.k., as I can always go straight to the 'html source' tab. My wife will like it a lot I think. She's been asking for a good WYSIWYG editor for a while.

56 posted on 05/26/2005 5:53:13 PM PDT by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
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To: Asphalt

Thanks for the info


57 posted on 05/26/2005 6:19:24 PM PDT by since1868
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To: browardchad
I don't have any experience with Linux at all, as far as using it on any computers. I appreciate your input though.

I have been using Windows since I gave up my Commodore 64 quite a few years back.

I actually don't have an opinion about whether Linux is "good" or "bad". However I do like to see competition, so I encourage Linux (any any other software developers) to keep working, and to keep (honestly) touting their products.

I will initially open and start reading any Linux post. However, it the article author can't stay on the technical topic, I move on to read something else.

P.S. LOL, my granny is long gone, so no Macs for her. I was originally going to replace my Commodore 64 with a Mac. However, at that time Macs were simply not within the average Joe's price range (IMHO). And as I was a newbie to computers at the time, I was struggling with the same issue many others were, i.e., exactly what am I going to do with a computer, over the long run, in my home?

In fact, I had a discussion with a co-worker at the time, and he was planning on buying a Mac setup, because he said it would help his children with their homework, they would have the same setup used in schools, etc. He happened to ask my opinion, and I told him that while I personally would love to have a Mac, he might want to purchase something cheaper to start with, and if it all worked out as he envisioned, he could take the path down the high cost Mac road at a later date. And if it didn't work out, he at least only had a low cost lump of metal sitting on the corner end table, gathering dust. His choice was to buy the Mac setup, and unfortunately he ended up with a very expensive lump of metal sitting there instead (he admitted up front that computers didn't interest him at all). His heart was in the right place, but unfortunately, his decision wasn't the best one for him and his family budget.

P.P.S. I try as hard as I can not to be prejudiced, but I have to admit that many times over the years, the Mac commercials seemed to me to smack of elitism (perhaps that perception was just a self-justification for me never buying one -- who knows?).

P.P.P.S. As a Government Manager, working with limited $ resources (yea, I know, everybody thinks everyone in the Gov't has an unlimited budget), I have steered a number of organizations away from Macs, not because I thought they were "bad", but because when you added up the cost for the Mac solution, we could buy cheaper PC setups, and also invest some of our limited budget into training, and into the networks and eventually Internet related activities that we needed to be investing in to better serve our Government customers (operators and maintainers of critical Missile Defense Early Warning Systems).

Bottomline of my previous post: Tell me all the technical good/bad news about Linux or any other software, but spare me the silly comments about "Windoze" (and equivalent comments about Linux/Mac/Unix, etc.).
58 posted on 05/26/2005 7:17:22 PM PDT by Col Freeper (Never argue with an idiot - - it's a useless activity and the leftist just enjoys it.)
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To: FormerLib
Actually, I was working as a computer tech at the time and I remember it better than someone who only read stories written about the trial.

Uh, no, you don't. Here's what you said: If you actually read the court's decision, you'd know that the court found that the infringement wasn't willful. That means it wasn't intentional. So nobody "pulled anything" on the guys who did Stacker. Stacker merely got the patent before M$. That doesn't make M$ the bad guy. Just unfortunate.
59 posted on 05/27/2005 3:43:56 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Psycho_Bunny; N3WBI3; Swordmaker; HAL9000
I wouldn't hire anyone who said any of those OS's, in their current forms, "sucks" because that person is probably narrow minded or inflexible or simply doesn't know enough about technology to be an asset to my organization.

Too bad ... Swordmaker, N3WBI3, and HAL would be flipping burgers...
60 posted on 05/27/2005 3:51:21 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: cloud8
Why don't you try Knoppix?

Really crappy NTFS support, that's why not.
61 posted on 05/27/2005 3:52:17 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000
Too bad ... Swordmaker, N3WBI3, and HAL would be flipping burgers...

I'll be flipping burgers on the grill tomorrow evening, and deep frying.

62 posted on 05/27/2005 4:09:19 PM PDT by HAL9000 (Get a Mac - The Ultimate FReeping Machine)
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To: HAL9000

Fried food is bad for you.


63 posted on 05/27/2005 4:16:11 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: ShadowAce

Look, when you can install apps as easily on Linux as you can on XP, then Linux may be useful. Until that time arrives, it's nothing but a rat's nest of rpm's, tarballs, config files, makefiles, and other assorted crap that's absolutely outside the realm of possibility for the average user.


64 posted on 05/27/2005 5:57:50 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
Why optimize? Get a Mac.

Because, unlike the Cult of Steve, I actually like choosing the components that go into my computer.
65 posted on 05/27/2005 5:58:48 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: ShadowAce
OpenOffice.org is not only fully compatible with excel, but they go one step further and allow you to produce PDF documents from spreadsheets.

Until OpenOffice has an Outlook email client equivalent, it will be relegated to the "also ran" dust bin category currently occupied by Lotus, WordPerfect, Corel, and all the others that came before it...
66 posted on 05/27/2005 6:05:42 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000

Not to mention Access.


67 posted on 05/27/2005 6:06:36 PM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: Col Freeper
Who knows, maybe sometime in the future, I will find a Linux article in which the author can stick to the technical facts of comparing the two, and skip the flaming rhetoric.

Impossible. It isn't in their DNA. We "normal human beings" just aren't enlightened enough to see the value of their frathouse operating system. /SARCASM
68 posted on 05/27/2005 6:08:38 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: browardchad
P.S. If grandma's giving you a headache with all the wormy e-mail she keeps opening, or all the spyware she invites home, and the choice is between Linux and a Mac: splurge and buy her a Mac.

Nah. Give grandma a restricted user account and no spyware or worms will be able to install itself on her machine. Problem solved.
69 posted on 05/27/2005 6:11:09 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: js1138
Not to mention Access.

Funny that they can't seem to put together a frontend for mySQL.
70 posted on 05/27/2005 6:12:48 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000

The strength of Access is that it is a front end to everything.


71 posted on 05/27/2005 6:14:46 PM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: js1138

Right, including the ability to "upsize" to SQL Server, Oracle, etc.


72 posted on 05/27/2005 6:21:38 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000
Hey psycho, find a time I said a modern OS 'sucked' Some are better in better areas..

please please please find a post where I said one sucked... But I wont hold my breath after all its been months and you cant point to where I, Sword, or Hal, have said Linux is perfect..

73 posted on 05/27/2005 8:35:45 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Bush2000

Whens the last time you installed a bunch of things on a linux box? I installed NVU lastnight by just clicking on a weblink..


74 posted on 05/27/2005 8:37:07 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Bush2000

Lol yea thats what I want something as bad as OE!!! Ill take firebird or evolution over oe any day of the week.


75 posted on 05/27/2005 8:38:14 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Bush2000
they have a small database, but they dont use a frontend for mysql with office because mysql more comparable to mssql. Openoffice is release with 'base' which is a

Create and modify tables, forms, queries, and reports, either using your own database or BASE’s own built-in HSQL database engine. BASE offers a choice of using Wizards, Design Views, or SQL Views for beginners, intermediate, and advanced users.

But there are some nice front ends for mysql.. "MySQL Administrator is a powerful visual administration console that enables you to easily administer your MySQL environment and gain significantly better visibility into how your databases are operating. MySQL Administrator now integrates database management and maintenance into a single, seamless environment, with a clear and intuitive graphical user interface. By using MySQL Administrator you will be able to:"

76 posted on 05/27/2005 8:50:18 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Bush2000
"Because, unlike the Cult of Steve, I actually like choosing the components that go into my computer."

It's great that you have the knowledge and time to geek it up like that. Most folks don't. For those who don't want to be their own IT department, the current Macs are almost unbelieveably well-executed.

And here's where I'm coming from: In my house are six operative Windows PCs, two Linux units (one operating as a server), and four Macs, including a very late-model G4 Powerbook. I hold one software patent and have two more filed. See, I'm a geek too, and am here to tell you: today's Macs are brilliant business and consumer personal computers.

Life's too precious to run Windows, and too short to manage Linux.
77 posted on 05/27/2005 9:27:34 PM PDT by RightOnTheLeftCoast (You're it)
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To: ShadowAce

Silly article. An opinion piece poised as a technical article.


78 posted on 05/27/2005 9:35:45 PM PDT by shellshocked (They're undocumented Border Patrol agents, not vigilantes.)
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To: Bush2000
Look, when you can install apps as easily on Linux as you can on XP, then Linux may be useful.

Funny how these guys that write programs for Linux just don't seem to be able to grasp that.

What's even better is that it appears that Apple has beaten the opensource guys, in less time, at their own game.

79 posted on 05/27/2005 9:56:27 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (In God We Trust. All Others We Monitor.)
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To: ShadowAce

When Linux gets to version 12.0 I think they are going to takeover. What keeps MS on top is it takes linux a while to write drivers for the latest technology like USB drives and compatibility with NTFS file systems. The Linux destop is nicer than XP in my opinion.


80 posted on 05/27/2005 10:02:29 PM PDT by John Lenin (There is no such thing as a church approved abortion)
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To: VeniVidiVici

Try the YaST installer on Suse and get back to me. It just doesn't get much easier to find and install applications.


81 posted on 05/27/2005 10:04:55 PM PDT by blowfish
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To: N3WBI3
Last weekend. I had to install a bunch of stuff -- and it wasn't pretty. It wasn't enough to install the RPMs. I had to dig through "docs" (quotes intentional) that were written by somebody with the literacy skills of a kindergartner. Then, I had to find a bunch of dependent tarballs on the Web (no links provided, of course). And then, after building, I had to deal with a cascading set of version incompatibilities. It took between 4 and 5 hours to do something that would have been effortless in Windows.

You're probably going to deny that people go through these kinds of problems with Linux. But, if you're honest with yourself, you know that this is commonplace.
82 posted on 05/27/2005 10:15:06 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: RightOnTheLeftCoast
It's great that you have the knowledge and time to geek it up like that. Most folks don't. For those who don't want to be their own IT department, the current Macs are almost unbelieveably well-executed.

You know, one of the reasons that PCs have achieved overwhelming market share compared to Macs is because of the vast number of choices available to consumers.

I agree that PCs, as configured by Dell and other major OEMs, are too difficult to manage. But, as I've said on related threads, this isn't due to a fundamental architectural problem in Windows. Windows, like OS X and Linux, has privileged and unprivileged accounts. OEMs chose to ship their products with accounts preconfigured with privileged access. They do this because there are many apps (notably games) which assume unbridled access to OS facilities. OEMs decided to err on the side of compatibility. I disagree with their choice. I think that, if PCs are going to run in a networked environment, they need to be fundamentally locked-down out of the box. MS has basically achieved that kind of configuration with Windows 2003 Server. It's pretty damned tight.

That said, it's a pretty simple matter to lockdown a PC. One of the first steps is creating and running an unprivileged account. Once you've eliminated that attack vector, it becomes considerably more difficult for malware to attack you. So, in my view, the 15 or 20 minutes that it takes me to lockdown a PC well justifies the wider range of choices that I have, with respect to software and hardware.

Macs aren't brilliant. They limit the range of choices available to consumers considerably. I simply wouldn't compromise, with that kind of tradeoff.
83 posted on 05/27/2005 10:33:50 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: VeniVidiVici
Funny how these guys that write programs for Linux just don't seem to be able to grasp that.

Yeah, a lot of these dorks think that it's enough to post "instructions" on how to install their software, rather than provide comprehensive automated setup. Sheez, what aquamaroons.

What's even better is that it appears that Apple has beaten the opensource guys, in less time, at their own game.

Agreed. If you have to go 'nix, go Mac or BSD or Slolaris.
84 posted on 05/27/2005 10:36:01 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: ShadowAce
I love Xandros 3.0. Its better than the Windows Me I used to run on an old laptop and one can set it up the way one likes it. I've never even had to use the command line. And booting up to the Internet is ridiculously easy. All the key tools are named just like in Windows. And the best thing about Linux, next to the free open source software, is the stability. It'll keep running when you find you have to reboot Windows. Thousands of Linux newbies have discovered the news that its not for geeks anymore!

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
85 posted on 05/27/2005 10:44:50 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: TChris
Xandros 3.0 IS a descendant of the old Corel Linux you worked with. Its by far the easiest to use Linux desktop I've ever tried. Its even available in a free open circulation version but I suspect most users will shell out the dollars for the deluxe product which comes with a bonus: thanks to a nifty Cross-over plugin, you can run certain Windows program within Linux! So you get the best of both worlds and can take the time to decide what YOU want on your computer, not Bill Gates. Today, the Linux desktop has come of age and as a very Windows-like feel. Forget the command line and the need to learn complicated commands. Just point and click. It couldn't be simpler!

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
86 posted on 05/27/2005 10:49:56 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: Bush2000
You have sworn in the past you dont let Linux boxes in your environment? What were you installing onto what platofrm. Fedora Automacially installs RPM's from web links..

Sound to me like youre just clueless, or really good at making easy things hard.. I never install from source any more! I think the last time I did was a POV raytrace app on RH8..

I administer 30 Linux servers at work and two at home, and I never install from source! ever!

87 posted on 05/27/2005 11:09:28 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: Trampled by Lambs; rdb3
I have been looking at Linux and gaming as well.  Here are a few resources on the subject that are probably worth taking a look at:

Gaming on Linux - Will It Ever Become a Reality?

TransGaming Technologies - Cedega Allows Window-based Games to Run on Linux

TransGaming.Org Games Database

I thought I would ping you, rdb3 to ask if you are familiar with the Cedega product?

88 posted on 05/27/2005 11:50:33 PM PDT by streetpreacher (God DOES exist; He's just not into you!)
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To: Born Conservative

Desert Combat... the only reason to buy BF 1942.


89 posted on 05/27/2005 11:52:06 PM PDT by streetpreacher (God DOES exist; He's just not into you!)
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To: N3WBI3

I'm thinking of buying an X-Box, opening it up, putting a bigger hard drive in and hardwiring it to run Linux.

This would be to use as a PC only of course as it would be impossible to run games anymore.


90 posted on 05/27/2005 11:54:10 PM PDT by streetpreacher (God DOES exist; He's just not into you!)
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To: Born Conservative

See my post #88.


91 posted on 05/27/2005 11:55:16 PM PDT by streetpreacher (God DOES exist; He's just not into you!)
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To: Bush2000
That means it wasn't intentional. So nobody "pulled anything" on the guys who did Stacker.

How do you then explain the Stacker code found in Disk Doubler? How about one of Stacker's coder's mother's name still left in the code?

They didn't even file off the serial numbers!

92 posted on 05/28/2005 1:04:28 AM PDT by Swordmaker (tagline now open, please ring bell.)
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To: Swordmaker

Yuppers, that's copyright.


93 posted on 05/28/2005 1:05:51 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (No wonder the Southern Baptist Church threw Greer out: Only one god per church! [Ann Coulter])
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To: Bush2000
Too bad ... Swordmaker, N3WBI3, and HAL would be flipping burgers...

Find ONE instance where I have said that any of those OSes "Sucks" and I'll make you a hamburger...

94 posted on 05/28/2005 1:09:48 AM PDT by Swordmaker (tagline now open, please ring bell.)
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To: streetpreacher
Desert Combat... the only reason to buy BF 1942.

Absolutely!

Which server do you usually play on? Which map is your favorite?

95 posted on 05/28/2005 3:14:15 AM PDT by Born Conservative ("If not us, who? And if not now, when? - Ronald Reagan)
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To: Swordmaker
How do you then explain the Stacker code found in Disk Doubler? How about one of Stacker's coder's mother's name still left in the code? They didn't even file off the serial numbers!

Silly, silly little man: You've been taken in by urban myth scam artists with an axe to grind against M$. That nonsense is simply false. Here's a clue: If Stac had proof of such chicanery, it would have sued M$ not only for patent infringement -- but also copyright violation. Stac didn't do that -- because no such code exists.
96 posted on 05/28/2005 12:13:50 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: N3WBI3
It wasn't in my environment. I was configuring some software (bugzilla, CVS, mySQL, etc) for one of my colleagues at a local university using Red Hat 9.

I knew that you would deny that this is a problem -- or try to downplay it by calling people "clueless" -- but the sad fact is that other people on this thread (and FR) have no doubt seen similar installation/configuration issues using Linux. Some people like to say that Linux is "ultimately configurable" -- which means that proper installation/config is a highly labor-intensive activity. Anybody who denies that is full of crap.
97 posted on 05/28/2005 12:34:21 PM PDT by Bush2000
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To: mnehrling
I wouldn't say it is anywhere Dreamweaver MX 04, but it is pretty close to Dreamweaver 3.

I wouldn't say that, unless it's made a major leap since I played with it back in March or so. Unlike Dreamweaver 3, NVU has zero support for scripting. No JSP, PHP, ASP - nothing. Actually, that's being generous - it has less than zero support for scripting. Example: so NVU has no facilities to help you create scripts, big deal. Let's hand-roll a little script and import it in - easy, right? Now watch NVU corrupt your carefully hand-written script by treating it as a CSS object. Oops.

Bzzzt. Someday it might be useful, but as it is right now, it's not anywhere close to being useful on a day to day basis, let alone being as good as Dreamweaver 3.

98 posted on 05/28/2005 6:17:08 PM PDT by general_re ("Frantic orthodoxy is never rooted in faith, but in doubt." - Reinhold Niebuhr)
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To: Bush2000
I knew that you would deny that this is a problem

Because, with any of the leading distros its not a problem. Everything I have installed for years has been RPM via either rhn, yum, or just clicking in a window..

or try to downplay it by calling people "clueless"

Hey if anyone around here downplays problems and calls people clueless its you. I do it from time to time when someone makes a statement so false either they are lying or clueless..

Im Microsoft, CompTia, and Redhat certified, I walso work with all Windows, and Linux all the time (including integration). I would like to point out in the very post you said I was denying things and calling you clueless, you turn around and call me clueless..

99 posted on 05/28/2005 6:41:03 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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To: general_re

I just installed it on my box and it does have jsp, and php support..


100 posted on 05/28/2005 6:42:04 PM PDT by N3WBI3
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