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Sponsor of Stem Cell Bill Says Senate Could Override a Veto
NY Times ^ | May 26, 2005 | SHERYL GAY STOLBERG

Posted on 05/26/2005 4:47:32 PM PDT by neverdem

WASHINGTON, May 25 - Senator Arlen Specter, the Pennsylvania Republican and chief sponsor of a bill to expand federal financing for human embryonic stem cell research, issued a stark challenge to President Bush on Wednesday, saying he had enough votes in the Senate to override a presidential veto of the measure.

"I don't like veto threats, and I don't like statements about overriding veto threats," Mr. Specter said, speaking at a news conference where the House backers of the measure presented him the legislation, which passed the House on Tuesday, topped with a red bow.

"But if a veto threat is going to come from the White House, then the response from the Congress is to override the veto, if we can," Mr. Specter added. "Last year we had a letter signed by some 58 senators, and we had about 20 more in the wings. I think if it really comes down to a showdown, we will have enough in the United States Senate to override a veto."

But the House majority leader, Representative Tom DeLay of Texas, said the bill, which garnered a majority that fell 52 votes short of the two-thirds majority required to overturn a veto, would "never become law." And Mr. Bush, appearing at a news conference with the president of Indonesia, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, restated his opposition.

"I believe that the use of federal monies that end up destroying life is not - is not positive, it's not good," Mr. Bush said. "And so, therefore, I'm against the extension of the research, of using more federal dollars on new embryonic stem cell lines."

The back-and-forth came as Mr. Specter and other supporters of embryonic stem cell research made a push for the Senate to take up the legislation. The majority leader, Senator Bill Frist of...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia; US: Kansas; US: Pennsylvania; US: Tennessee
KEYWORDS: 109th; arlenspecter; bush; georgewbush; specter; stemcells; ussenate; veto
Basic Embryology Review Program

After checking this link, which seems to be undergoing improvement, I don't think they will be making much progress in a petri dish. If anyone knows of any better links on human embryology, I would appreciate it if you let me know.

1 posted on 05/26/2005 4:47:33 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: cpforlife.org; Coleus; Peach; Mr. Silverback; airborne; MHGinTN; hocndoc

ping


2 posted on 05/26/2005 4:48:49 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

The senate might be able to override the veto, but I doubt the house could.


3 posted on 05/26/2005 4:48:53 PM PDT by Righty_McRight
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To: neverdem

The Frankenspecter speaks!


4 posted on 05/26/2005 4:49:03 PM PDT by TheDon (Euthanasia is an atrocity.)
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To: neverdem

I think the last tactic to use against W is a showdown....

I think we all know he won't back down, especially from Specter...


5 posted on 05/26/2005 4:49:32 PM PDT by MikefromOhio (Is anyone else ready for football to begin again?)
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To: TheDon
I am really starting to have great disdain for Specter...

What an absolute creep he is.

Wish DeLay would hammer this bast*rd back to the stone age.

6 posted on 05/26/2005 4:50:54 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Habemus Papum)
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To: neverdem

So Specter couldn't be bothered to hang around DC today to vote on Bolton, but he's announcing he's all set to override the President's veto on funding embryonic stem cell research? !@#$%!!!


7 posted on 05/26/2005 4:51:20 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (L'chaim!)
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To: neverdem

Does Specter have Cancer or AIDS? I have heard conflicting stories.


8 posted on 05/26/2005 4:51:44 PM PDT by marymc
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To: neverdem

Geez, these bozos can't get judges through, can't vote on Bolton, etc. but say they can override a pie-in-the-sky scheme of "promise" based on unsure science?

Why do all the "embryonic stem cells will cure all ills" goofballs consistently say missile defense is "impossible" or a manned mission to Mars is "unfeasible and probably impossible" or drilling and refining our own oil "will kill everything on the planet", or "if we kill that one snail darter the entire eco-system will collapse", blah, blah, blah?

Inconsistency in argument is as bad as hypocrisy.


9 posted on 05/26/2005 4:53:03 PM PDT by Fledermaus (The New 7 RINO Dwarfs: Cowardly, Cranky, Dopey, Goofy, Mealy, Sorry and Wussy)
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To: MikeinIraq
I think the last tactic to use against W is a showdown....

I think we all know he won't back down, especially from Specter...

The last thing we want to see is pictures of Arlen Specter in his underwear in a British newspaper! :)

10 posted on 05/26/2005 4:53:34 PM PDT by the_Watchman
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To: neverdem
The current state of stem cell research is analogous to one of us going into a nuclear power plant and flipping random switches to see what happens. Just to get a cell to grow outside of it's normal environment, you introduce changes. Further manipulation of the stem cell to mutate the DNA can also have other unforeseen consequences. By the time you are done and want to reintroduce it back into the host, you clearly have no idea all of the things you have actually done to it. And chances are actually very high that you are introducing a source of future cancer stem cells into the body.
11 posted on 05/26/2005 4:54:23 PM PDT by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: TheDon
Sounds like 007 needs to pay S.P.E.C.T.R.E. another visit, eh?

-Regards, T.
12 posted on 05/26/2005 4:57:18 PM PDT by T Lady (G.W. Bush to Kerry & the MSM: "I've come to settle the Family Business.")
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To: marymc
Does Specter have Cancer or AIDS? I have heard conflicting stories.

IIRC, he has a type of lymphoma called Hodgkin's disease.

13 posted on 05/26/2005 5:02:45 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: MarcusTulliusCicero

At least one recent study suggests that the longer the stem cells hang around undifferentiated in vitro, the greater the chance of them turning cancerous in vivo.

Unfortunately, I don't have a link to the article I read. I believe it applied to both embryonic and non-embryonic stem cells used in animal studies.


14 posted on 05/26/2005 5:07:27 PM PDT by LibFreeOrDie (L'chaim!)
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To: neverdem; All
Why was Christopher Reeve totally HAIRLESS when he died??? My friend says it was because he had an experimental Embryonic stem cell therapy done, developed a tumor from that, had to have chemotherapy, but succumbed from the cancer anyway. Anyone know for sure?

Reeve didn't become HAIRLESS from his spinal injury.

15 posted on 05/26/2005 5:09:19 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: neverdem

I heard tonight that it was Specter's refusal to say how he would vote on the nuclear option that priompted Republican leaders to send deWine out to make the best deal he could. He must be dying, because he sure has no fear this week....and he really owes Bush.


16 posted on 05/26/2005 5:11:49 PM PDT by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: LibFreeOrDie

Yes, the same is basically true of any cell that you culture outside of the body. We don't necessarily know of all the growth factors they need to group and develop properly. Also, we are putting them under selection pressures that favor cells that divide rapidly. Manipulation of the DNA damages it in often unintended ways. By the time you put it back into the body, you really have changed it in many ways, many of them undetectable. And you can't really practically sequence its whole genome before you do, to make sure that you've only changed the things you wanted.


17 posted on 05/26/2005 5:23:11 PM PDT by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: ClaireSolt

The way I understood it was that it was President Bush who sent Dewine and Graham in to make the best compromise possible as Frist could not count on Specter for the 51st vote - Specter would not commit one way or another.


18 posted on 05/26/2005 5:26:05 PM PDT by Texas Deb
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To: Ann Archy
Why was Christopher Reeve totally HAIRLESS when he died??? My friend says it was because he had an experimental Embryonic stem cell therapy done, developed a tumor from that, had to have chemotherapy, but succumbed from the cancer anyway. Anyone know for sure?

WOW. Verrrrry interesting. I have no idea if it's true, but it sure sounds plausible to me.

I too had wondered why Reeve had no hair --not even eyebrows left.

19 posted on 05/26/2005 5:40:11 PM PDT by shhrubbery! (The 'right to choose' = The right to choose death --for somebody else.)
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To: Texas Deb
The way I understood it was that it was President Bush who sent Dewine and Graham in to make the best compromise possible as Frist could not count on Specter for the 51st vote - Specter would not commit one way or another.

I heard that too. And before I heard it, I suspected it.

I think some folks are stomping a bit too hard on DeWine and Graham without knowing the full story. We'll see how this all plays out.

IMO there is a masterful chess game being played here, and it will NOT end in a win for the Dims.

That said, it's still true that Specter is a rat.

20 posted on 05/26/2005 5:45:28 PM PDT by shhrubbery! (The 'right to choose' = The right to choose death --for somebody else.)
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To: shhrubbery!

How can we find out why Reeve was HAIRLESS?? Any ideas? What else makes one totally HAIRLESS except chemotherapy?


21 posted on 05/26/2005 5:47:42 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: neverdem

Well, that's nice that Spectre doesn't like a power available to all President's to check the Legislative Body from behaving as Lords, but I'm sure the President could equally rebut he doesn't appreciate a Senator unappreciative of the efforts to help him keep his Senate seat.

The Senate's actions on this are meaningless, I believe, provided the House doesn't provide a 2/3rd's vote.


22 posted on 05/26/2005 5:58:19 PM PDT by Soul Seeker
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To: Ann Archy
What else makes one totally HAIRLESS except chemotherapy?

MedicineNet Main Article on Hair Loss

23 posted on 05/26/2005 6:11:11 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Ann Archy

He had Alopecia which causes your hair to fall out in clumps and makes it look patchy, so he gave up and shaved it.


24 posted on 05/26/2005 6:14:48 PM PDT by Nomad817
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To: neverdem

Maybe next time the President will think twice before helping a liberal republican win a primary.


25 posted on 05/26/2005 6:15:04 PM PDT by Brimack34
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To: Brimack34

"Maybe next time the President will think twice before helping a liberal republican win a primary."



Specter already cost Bush Pennsylvania in the November elections (Specter got huge turnout from Philly-area RINOs who voted for Kerry, and there was low turnout from conservatives in rural areas). If that didn't wake Bush up to how it doesn't pay to campaign for RINOs in primaries (especially in a strongly pro-life and pro-gun state such as PA), nothing will.


26 posted on 05/26/2005 6:21:46 PM PDT by AuH2ORepublican (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice, moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: shhrubbery!

I think there may be a lot of STRATEGERY going on behind the scenes.

I've been as frustrated as everyone else the last few days, but this puts a bit of a different light on the compromise.

I think this poker hand will be played out in time - I'm holding judgement until it does.

And Specter is still a POS.


28 posted on 05/26/2005 7:24:11 PM PDT by Texas Deb
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To: MarcusTulliusCicero
Can anyone tell me when was the last great breakthrough in medicine that didn't do extensive higher mammalian research/trials BEFORE moving to humans? ... What is the rush to commit cannibalism on human life before proving methodologies with other mammalian models? Folks, this entire rush to cannibalism that Specter sees as 'enlightened medical advancement' is demonic in nature. What will be left of our 'fear of God' when we are extending our lives via cannibalism? We will no longer be growing in Grace and Knowledge, we will be spitting in God's face. This road Specter wants this nation upon with all haste is but the starting gate for the euphemistically named 'therapeutic cloning' and tissue banks held by grand corporations. Evil is strutting boldly with men like Arlen Specter to do its work. And this is not a new direction for Specter for he's been in Harkin's pocket for years as proved during the appropriations hearings of years ago when Harkin chaired the committee and wanted funding for ESCR under Clinton's watch ... and of course the degenerate sinkEmperor opened the door then through NIH.
29 posted on 05/26/2005 7:59:54 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: neverdem; hocndoc; cpforlife.org

The President's Council On Bioethics has a great backgrounder site (a .gov site) that can extend education on stem cells and has lots of diagrams, etc. I'm not on my own computer or I could give you the link and several other really good sites. Perhaps hocndoc can offer it.


30 posted on 05/26/2005 8:02:16 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

I think we both know the reason: they want to justify the continued slaughter of the unborn. The advances in ultrasound technology have been helping the pro-life cause, so they're looking for some kind of counter-argument, and frankly, they're grasping at straws.


31 posted on 05/26/2005 8:04:37 PM PDT by B Knotts (Viva il Papa!)
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To: B Knotts

Between you and me, it is what one expects of servants to evil when they ignore and reject the whispers of God's Holy Spirit of conviction. HUman need to self-justify will go to astonishingly bad lengths to justify past wrongful decisions. Once wholesale slaughter has been defended for three plus decades, the need in the dead human 'heart' is to justify and ANY direction that seems to have a high ideal (though it really be cannibalism) is a tool to push God away and seem to raise human choice to godlike power. To awaken is to die to self, and self-promoters/self-agrandizers cannot abide that! Sadly, they ARE taking this once great nation down the slippery funnel to Hell with them, now intending to use cannibalism as the grease for slide.


32 posted on 05/26/2005 8:12:05 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

Agreed. I pray they do not succeed.


33 posted on 05/26/2005 8:14:49 PM PDT by B Knotts (Viva il Papa!)
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To: MHGinTN
Human Cloning and Human Dignity: An Ethical Inquiry

Is this the link?

34 posted on 05/26/2005 8:15:36 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem
That is one. There was a site that included the minutes of their meetings, with opening comments and the full text of guest speakers. If you go to my manuscript, I have a link in the bibliography at the end. [http://weneedtalk.blogspot.com That's the page where you'll find the link to the html or PDF formats graciously made available by Calpernia.]
35 posted on 05/26/2005 8:22:28 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: neverdem

Well, that's nice, Senator, but the Senate can't override a veto on its own.


36 posted on 05/26/2005 8:24:59 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat (The Force can have a powerful effect on the weak minded...)
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To: neverdem

[ http://bioethicsprint.bioethics.gov ] Might find more pathways at that addy.


37 posted on 05/26/2005 8:26:40 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: MHGinTN

Well, you've also got to remember that liberalism runs very strongly through the scientific community. I am presently in an academic setting and it is standard practice to look down on any research that is privately funded, especially if it is funded by a pharmaceutical company. For many scientists, your funding is only pure if it comes from the government. However, you are just as likely to overstate the importance of any data to justify the renewal of a government funded grant as you are a pharmaceutical. And you are also much more prone to channel the results to confirm whatever pet theory meets the approval of liberal ideology - witness most global warming research. The two "premiere" scientific journals - Nature and Science - are AS political, if not more so than anything you will see in the NYT. It is considered very presitigious to be published in these journals, but, if you examine them closely you will see that most of the articles fall within a very narrow range of topics - and they almost all conform to the liberal view of the world. Therefore, any paper extolling the virtues of embryonic stem cells will be strongly considered by these journals. The same for any paper which purports to support the failed global warming models. And anyone who departs from this orthodoxy is the subject of scathing criticism and not so subtle threats to pull their grant funding!


38 posted on 05/26/2005 9:04:16 PM PDT by MarcusTulliusCicero
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To: Nomad817

Did his eyebrows and eyelashes all out in clumps also or did he shave those off also?


39 posted on 05/26/2005 9:23:45 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Nomad817

What is Alopecia and what is i caused from?


40 posted on 05/26/2005 9:24:23 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Nomad817

What is Alopecia and what is i caused from? Is that what he died from? If not, what did he die from?


41 posted on 05/26/2005 9:24:56 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: MHGinTN

Thanks for the links. I'm in the process of reading your paper. I'm up to page 14 of the pdf.


42 posted on 05/26/2005 10:04:42 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Ann Archy
What is Alopecia and what is i caused from? Is that what he died from? If not, what did he die from?

Christopher Reeve, 52, Symbol of Courage, Dies
DOUGLAS MARTIN - New York Times October 11, 2004

Mr. Reeve was being treated for a pressure wound, a common complication for people in wheelchairs, said his publicity agent, Wesley Combs. These wounds result from constant pressure in one spot, reducing the blood to that area and finally killing the affected tissue.

Mr. Combs said that Mr. Reeve fell into a coma on Saturday. The wound had become severely infected, and the infection spread through his body.

If you enter the same title into the Times' search engine, you first get the Oct 12, 2004 version of their obituary, for which the Times wants an archival fee.

Maybe you missed comment# 23, but I thought it and its links explained the causes of alopecia fairly well for most folks.

43 posted on 05/26/2005 11:19:06 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Ann Archy
FWIW, Christoper Reeve does claim to have suffered from alopecia areata since he was 16 years old:

November 26, 2001: In the November 26, 2001 issue of People Weekly, Christopher Reeve confirmed that for three decades he has suffered from Alopecia Areata, "an incurable disease affecting 4 million people that results in varying degrees of hair loss." Reeve said in the interview: "I first had it when I was 16. All my life it's come and gone. It started with a bald spot right at the crown of my head. In all that time some hair (on my head) would fall out and then grow back. But in the last year it has been more apparent than usual. (For the first time) it's affected my eyebrows, but they are growing back. There's no real explanation for it. It's kind of like allergies. Sometimes people have a good season and a bad season. So in the last six months in particular I've lost more hair than usual. The fact is I'm in the best health I've been in since the accident in '95. I'm stronger and I'm progessing with physical therapy. That's why it's so ironic that because my hair fell out, people have been concerned about my health." Reeve receives cortisone shots in the scalp every three weeks to treat his hair loss.

Whether this claim was for real, or was just a cover story (so to speak), I guess we can't know.

I've always thought the claim that Reeve died from blood infection due to a pressure sore, was a little suspicious, however.

Everybody who's known bedridden or chair-ridden persons well knows that pressure sores are a hazard; but that with good care they can be prevented. Pressure sores are more likely to occur with people whose care is neglected.

So I find it odd that Reeve, a wealthy man with all kinds of help, ended up dying from a pressure sore. But that is the official story-line.

44 posted on 05/27/2005 10:46:19 AM PDT by shhrubbery! (The 'right to choose' = The right to choose death --for somebody else.)
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To: shhrubbery!

Thanks for the info. I agree...dying from a pressure wound seems unlikely since he had the best of care...his wife!


45 posted on 05/27/2005 12:44:39 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion: The Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: neverdem

Is it the good Hodgkin's?


46 posted on 05/27/2005 1:04:48 PM PDT by marymc
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To: marymc
Is it the good Hodgkin's?

I don't know.

Hodgkin's lymphoma: evolving concepts with implications for practice.

47 posted on 05/27/2005 2:36:52 PM PDT by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Texas Deb
I think this poker hand will be played out in time...

It's become more and more apparent that we don't hold the high cards -- in the senate.

What has been mistaken for a lack of action by our president and the missing body parts of our senate leader is actually a large herd of pathetic Republican-In-Name-Only Senators.

48 posted on 05/27/2005 7:54:01 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: neverdem
From an email:

***ACTION ALERT*** Saturday, May 28, 2005



Romney delivers on promise to veto stem cell bill

By Theo Emery, Associated Press Writer | May 27, 2005

BOSTON -- Gov. Mitt Romney vetoed a bill Friday that would expand embryonic stem cell research in Massachusetts, but the measure has more than enough support in the Legislature to override the governor's veto.

The House and Senate passed the bill with veto-proof margins, and both chambers were expected to vote next week to override the veto.

Read full article...

You must encourage your fellow parishoners (family, friends) to contact their legislators by calling the State House switchboard at 617-722-2000 or by e-mailing your state senator (click here)and state representative (click here), urging them to support the Governor's final veto before a vote (likely Tuesday, May 31st) and this legislation becomes law!

To find your elected officials:
www.wheredoivotema.com/bal/myelectioninfo.php

See: Timeline (including Roll Call Votes) -- What's Happened So Far

FORWARD THIS E-MAIL ON TO FAMILY AND FRIENDS IN MASSACHUSETTS!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Additional Resources:


49 posted on 05/28/2005 8:01:41 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Righty_McRight

I just hope the House sticks with President Bush. Arlen Specter (R?-PA) should not embarrass Bush with an override. Especially after the Senate wimped on his judges. These Senate RINOS are as dangerous as the Democrat lefty socialists.


50 posted on 05/29/2005 9:15:46 PM PDT by RicocheT
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