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Did You Know that Half the Declaration's Signers Had Divinity School Training?
History News Network ^ | 5/30/05 | LS

Posted on 05/30/2005 12:47:24 PM PDT by LS

Did You Know that Half the Declaration's Signers Had Divinity School Training?

by Larry Schweikart

No phrase has been more egregiously misapplied than Thomas Jefferson’s infamous “wall of separation between church and state,” a line he used in a letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802.This line, along with references to the supposed lack of Christian faith among the Founders, has for decades fed the fires of the American leftists in their drive to excise any references to God and/or Christ from the public square. Yet how “ir-religious” were these Founders?

It is worth beginning at the beginning and to note that entire colonies were established precisely to serve as religious sanctuaries for various denominations of the Christian church, with Pennsylvania a Quaker state, Maryland a Catholic state, and Massachusetts a Puritan state. Moreover, the supposedly “deistic” Jefferson wrote Virginia’s Sabbath law, and far from wishing to move America away from her Christian roots, Jefferson’s Bill for “Establishing Religious Freedom” in 1786 was expressly designed to move the nation toward a less-Anglican, more Protestant base. These words hardly sound like those of a man committed to atheism or even “deism”: “Almighty God hath created the mind free,” and “all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind . . . .” Jefferson wanted to extend the Gospel by “its influence on reason alone,” not coercion. Nevertheless, that hardly supports the notion that Jefferson lacked faith in God, or, for that matter, the Gospels.

What is completely ignored in the debates about “religious freedom” is that every one of the groups fighting the tax assessments for public funding of ministers desired “religious freedom” within a Christian tradition, and none, in their wildest dreams, would have suspected the concept of religious freedom would be used to justify the removal of Christian crosses from public squares, the elimination of prayers in school, or the removal of copies of the Ten Commandments from courtrooms. In the minds of these groups, the threat of tyranny by an Anglican Church would have been a far lesser evil than the complete removal of Christianity from the public square.

There was certainly no separation of church from our Founding statesmen. Half the Declaration’s signers had some sort of divinity school training, and while John Adams was the most overtly pious, even the supposed non-believers among the Founders, such as Benjamin Franklin, found the need to turn to God in times of trouble. During the Constitutional Convention's most contentious moments, it was Franklin who not only offered a prayer but who added:

Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of a Superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? or do we imagine that we no longer need His assistance [emphasis added].

Do these words sound like those of a “deist” who thinks human ability sufficient for the challenges of the day? Franklin not only went on to quote scripture a la Adams, but stated flatly that “God governs the affairs of men” (emphasis Franklin’s).

Modern historians, steeped in the “feelings” and emotions of people, demand more evidence of the “inner man” from the Founders. But faith, to all of them, was a deeply private issue, lest one come up short against another. Whether or not George Washington prayed in the snow, or whether or not declarations such as Franklin’s were for “public consumption,” it is abundantly obvious that these men spoke of God, the Creator, the Lord, the Divine (capital “D”) relentlessly. Even if it were true that, initially, such pronouncements were intended for the ears of others, it nevertheless bespeaks a Biblical law that “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” (Romans 10:17). By constantly speaking faith, they consistently built up their own. Non-believers might see hypocrisy; believers would see confession and optimism, whereby one “calls those things which do not exist as though they did.” (Romans 4:17).

The omnipresence of Christianity in America provided an undergirding to everything the Founders said and did. It was so common that most people, aside from an ultra-pious man like John Adams, did not delve deeply into the implications of their faith for every daily interaction. Yet how can one escape the fact that virtually all of the Republic’s early universities were founded by denominations with the intent of advancing the cause of Christ---and not some generic “Creator”? How does one reconcile the evidence of a long and tortured spiritual journey of Abraham Lincoln, who only “surrendered all” after Gettysburg? How can the divinity school training of so many early giants---and many later presidents, who studied theology formally---be cavalierly swept aside? And all this in a young nation in which the path to power and fame was anything but the clergy!

Jefferson’s wall of separation between church and state clearly did not apply to a wall separating church and statesmen, for it was assumed by all that men of poor character could not govern. The unstated assumption beneath that was that character came from God, and faith, not from man’s own works. They spoke of character without ceasing: Alexander Hamilton stated that he would “willingly risk my life, though not my character, to exalt my station.” But of course, Hamilton had gotten that training from a New Jersey minister, who funded his education. Jefferson wrote in his Bible, “I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator.” Jefferson, we might add, was the chairman of the American Bible Society. Patrick Henry, in 1776, stated, “It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here.” The First Continental Congress authorized the purchase of 20,000 Bibles in 1777 from Holland---a fact that anti-religious websites deliberately misrepresent. Indeed, the most common argument against the faith of the Founders is an argument from silence. Yet that speaks more about their view of what was properly discussed in public---even in private letters---than it does their lack of Christian faith.

Had the Founders been subject to the incessant polling we suffer from today, three things are clear: 1) They would have overwhelmingly, if not unanimously, characterized the United States as a Christian nation (leaving aside what each interpreted that to mean); 2) They would have overwhelmingly, if not unanimously, thought it imperative that leaders display the type of character that sprang from Christianity; and 3) They would have almost certainly unanimously agreed that the “wall of separation” was to prevent one Christian denomination from dominating, and was never intended to be a wedge between the government and Christianity. Even the so-called “Deists” among them would be horrified at the actions taken under the guise of protecting “religious liberty,” when in fact they are usually efforts to attack religion. I’d wager that had they seen the perversions of their intended protection of Christianity, more than a few would have uttered, “Oh, my God!”


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: adams; americanhistory; christianheritage; churchandstate; constitution; declaration; founders; jefferson; washington
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After reading "A Patriot's History," the editor of HNN asked me to write something on the Founders and religion.


1 posted on 05/30/2005 12:47:26 PM PDT by LS
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To: LS

Tell that to the ACLU and they'll sue to de-constitutionalize our country.


2 posted on 05/30/2005 12:50:57 PM PDT by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: LS

Thank you.


3 posted on 05/30/2005 12:52:19 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: LS

That's partly bacause most schools were religiously affiliated. Yale was a seminary when it began.


4 posted on 05/30/2005 12:53:41 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: LS; mugs99; oldglory; MinuteGal; JulieRNR21; mcmuffin

BTTT!


5 posted on 05/30/2005 12:55:25 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Bad news for atheists: Postmoderns reject all meta-narratives including macro-evolution. LOL)
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To: LS

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Vanderbilt were all originally divinity schools. They still have divinity courses becaue it is required in their charters but they are only token courses often taught by people who view Christianity as for the unenlightend, unwashed masses.


6 posted on 05/30/2005 12:55:25 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: LS
Here is a list of the signers and their religious affiliations:

Signers of The Declaration of Independence

Framers of the Constitution

7 posted on 05/30/2005 12:56:49 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1412896/posts?page=129#129
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1412896/posts?page=130#130
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1412896/posts?page=152#152
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1412896/posts?page=153#153
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1412896/posts?page=154#154
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1412896/posts?page=160#160


8 posted on 05/30/2005 1:01:24 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Bad news for atheists: Postmoderns reject all meta-narratives including macro-evolution. LOL)
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To: kabar

At least one of the signers, George Ross, was the son of an Anglican minister.


9 posted on 05/30/2005 1:01:58 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: muir_redwoods

Swarthmore was a Quaker institution.


10 posted on 05/30/2005 1:02:10 PM PDT by Temple Owl (19064)
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To: LS

Interesting.


11 posted on 05/30/2005 1:12:30 PM PDT by guitar Josh
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To: LS
Alexander Hamilton stated that he would “willingly risk my life, though not my character, to exalt my station.” But of course, Hamilton had gotten that training from a New Jersey minister, who funded his education.

His education was paid for by a stipend donated by the St. Croix business community.  They had hopes he might become a doctor and return to the island to set up practice.  Must be thinking about Hugh Knox, a Presbyterian minister, a graduate of the College of New Jersey, who some think was responsible for motivating the St. Croix business people to set up Hamilton's stipend.

His earlier education was done privately by a local Jewess.  His family history probably kept him out of the local religious school.

12 posted on 05/30/2005 1:23:50 PM PDT by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: Racehorse

A letter written to Edward Stevens from the West Indies during Hamilton's early employment at the counting



house.http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/burr/HamLettertoFriend.htm


13 posted on 05/30/2005 1:36:21 PM PDT by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: LS

bookmark


14 posted on 05/30/2005 1:39:44 PM PDT by chaosagent (It's all right to be crazy. Just don't let it drive you nuts.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Interestingly the "logo" at Harvard was three books, two turned face up, but one turned face down to symbolize that man will not know all truth. Moreover, the original motto was "Veritas et Christo" Truth and Christ. Now, the logo is three books, all face up, and just "Veritas."


15 posted on 05/30/2005 1:54:18 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: LS

Did you know that after flunking out of Harvard Law, Algore flunked out of divinity school at Vanderbilt?


16 posted on 05/30/2005 1:58:21 PM PDT by ABG(anybody but Gore) (I don't hate anybody, except the French....)
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To: LS

A real interesting essay would be how this whole separation of church & state was implemented by the Supreme Court, the players involved, how they got away with this and why?


17 posted on 05/30/2005 1:58:48 PM PDT by Bommer
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To: Bigh4u2
A letter written to Edward Stevens . . .

Much, much thanks!  That's the source of it, alright!

Some speculate, based solely on reports of their close resemblance, that Edward Stevens was Hamilton's half-brother.

Cannot imagine a 14 year old writing such a letter.  Not the kind of prose I would have written at that age.  But then, even his poetry surpasses the maudlin doggerel I did pen at about the same age.  And of course, he did pretty much run that counting house.  Quite a remarkable person, that Hamilton.

18 posted on 05/30/2005 1:59:32 PM PDT by Racehorse (Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

This headline is both accurate but slightly misleading.

It is true (as already posted) in the sense that all schools were "divinity schools" in that day....It was commonplace for the educated class to have an education would would rival the clergy and be almost indistinguishable from the clergy. That is extremely significant.

That said, it is not true that they were seminary graduates in the sense that we think of it today....Only John Witherspoon was a clergyman, although two of the others had been clergy in a previous life.

But each of Harvard, Yale and Princeton were basically like seminaries or would look like what we would think of nowadays as a seminary.

Also...John Adams' father was a minister of the Gospel and he desired John to follow in his footsteps, but John chose the law. I'm sure others were the sons of ministers in addition to Adams and Ross.


19 posted on 05/30/2005 2:00:28 PM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: ConservativeDude

" while John Adams was the most overtly pious"

I believe Witherspoon would strongly disagree with that...

Also...did y'all know that Ben Franklin proposed once in a letter to the evangelist George Whitefield that they start a colony in Ohio in order to evangelize it and train up the "savages" there to become members of Christian civilization?

Thus...we se yet again what the author of this piece is getting at: even the least religious of the founders were more evangelical than our most religious today.


20 posted on 05/30/2005 2:04:08 PM PDT by ConservativeDude
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To: LS

bump


21 posted on 05/30/2005 2:22:16 PM PDT by Freedom of Speech Wins
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To: LS
No NONONONONONONONO! (Shrill shriek rising to the point that dogs are getting a migraine!)

They were all atheists! They hated God, they were all Shirley MacLaine followers who liked to go sky clad while cavorting with the natives!

There's no proof they even existed, it's all a hoax perpetrated by the extreme Christian Right Wingers who went back in time and planted these documents!

LIES! LIES! LIES! (whimper)

(liberal Christian-hating rant mode = off)

I love anything that will send the libs into stroke territory.
22 posted on 05/30/2005 2:23:25 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Children's classic songs updated for Islam "If you're happy and you know it, Go Kaboom!")
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To: Matchett-PI

Why does the list of religious affiliation posted by kabar differ from the list posted by you? There are many more lists that could be posted that differ from the two posted by you and kabar.

There is no historical documentation that factually lists these men by religious affiliation and for good reason. In colonial times your religion was the religion of the colony you lived in. Most of the states at the time of the Constitutional Convention, did not allow confessed Deists to hold public office.

Among our founders was a famous Jew and a famous Atheist, yet you don't see a Jew or an Atheist on the list. That was changed by the separation of church and state. Do you really believe that separation of church and state would have been overwhelmingly supported if all those guys were Christian and wanted a Christian America?
...


23 posted on 05/30/2005 2:34:59 PM PDT by mugs99
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To: LS
If laws and rights are not based in a large part on religion - which results in an unquestionable legitimacy, all laws and rights would flow from only the opinion of the most powerful.

Read what the Founding Fathers said about this subject:


James Madison (Architect of the U.S. Constitution & Co-Author of the Federalist Papers)

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

(also From his notes)

"Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."

"Religion [is] the basis and Foundation of Government."


Patrick Henry (...as for me, give me liberty or give me death!)

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased a the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"



Benjamin Rush (signer...Declaration of Independence)

"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals and so little pains to prevent crime. Take the Bible out of our schools and there would be an explosion in crime."

"I have alternately been called an Aristocrat and a Democrat. I am neither. I am a Christocrat."


George Washington

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."


Daniel Webster

"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world."

"If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may ovenvhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity."

"Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles with the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political, or literary.

"If religious books are not widely circulated among the masses in this country, I do not know what is going to become of us as a nation. If truth be not diffused, error will be; If God and His Word are not known and received, the devil and his works will gain the ascendancy, If the evangelical volume does not reach every hamlet, the pages of a corrupt and licentious literature will; If the power of the Gospel is not felt throughout the length and breadth of the land, anarchy and misrule, degradation and misery, corruption and darkness will reign without mitigation or end."


In 1832, Noah Webster published his History of the United States, in which he wrote:

"The brief exposition of the constitution of the United States, will unfold to young persons the principles of republican government; and it is the sincere desire of the writer that our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament or the Christian religion.

"The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles, which enjoins humility, piety, and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person a brother, or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free Constitutions of Government.

"The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all of our civil constitutions and laws....All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.

"When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God. The preservation of a republican government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty;

"If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made not for the public good so much as for the selfish or local purposes;

"Corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded.

"If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws."

"Corruption of morals is rapid enough in any country without a bounty from government. And...the Chief Magistrate of the United States should be the last man to accelerate its progress."



Laws and rights based on the Christian religion results in an unquestionable legitimacy...to believers.

If we 'cleaned house' of ALL government laws, statutes, including the U.S. Constitution of anything based on Judeo-Christian morals and values, what rights would we the people have left?

At the end of the day - most of ours laws are based on a MORAL vrs. IMMORAL code that is rooted in religious beliefs. If laws and rights are not based in a large part on religion - which results in an unquestionable legitimacy, all laws and rights would flow from only the opinion of the most powerful.

Katherine & Van Jenerette
www.jenerette.com

 



24 posted on 05/30/2005 2:42:19 PM PDT by kjenerette (Jenerette for Senate - www.jenerette.com - U.S. Army Desert Storm)
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To: mugs99

Self-deception is the worst. LOL


25 posted on 05/30/2005 3:15:19 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Bad news for atheists: Postmoderns reject all meta-narratives including macro-evolution. LOL)
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To: LS

"Did You Know that Half the Declaration's Signers Had Divinity School Training?"

Did you know that almost all of those who will eventually destroy the Declaration of Indepence have had no Divinity School training?


26 posted on 05/30/2005 4:07:57 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: Matchett-PI

How so?
You offered up Calvinism...How does Unitarian differ from Deist? How does Calvinist show evidence of Christianity?
I was honest enough to point out that some of the Calvinist listings were biased even though Calvinism is closer to Deism than it is to Christianity.

How does Deist equate to God hater and Calvinist (Unitarian) does not?
...


27 posted on 05/30/2005 4:12:59 PM PDT by mugs99
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To: Racehorse

I wouldn't think such prose possible of such an age, either, but remember, children of 200 years ago---who were educated---were educated in letters and math to a FAR greater degree (given what they could be taught) than today. I've seen a state of NJ high school ENTRANCE test from 1891 that would stagger most college graduates.


28 posted on 05/30/2005 5:17:15 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: ConservativeDude
Yeah, even Franklin and Jefferson agreed with a Continental Congress plan to import 2000 Bibles at GOVERNMENT expense.

Lessee, what was that about church and state?

29 posted on 05/30/2005 5:18:50 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: Dr.Zoidberg

Lol. Go to the actual site of my piece, www.historynewsnetwork.com, and look at some of the comments! They are already out!


30 posted on 05/30/2005 5:19:28 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: kjenerette
Thanks. Absolutely right---and Madison is the "weakest" of all the Christians in government (insofar as he said very little about his personal faith).

And the fact that, as one poster said above, that you were of the faith of your colony/state, well, that's significant: it says PRECISELY that there was a union of church and state. Maybe not of church and the federal government, but certainly church and each state.

31 posted on 05/30/2005 5:21:44 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: LS

ping to self for later pingout.


32 posted on 05/30/2005 5:22:14 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Resisting evil is our duty or we are as responsible as those promoting it.)
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To: muir_redwoods

That's the thing. Especially the institutions of higher learning.


33 posted on 05/30/2005 5:22:14 PM PDT by RightWhale (These problems would not exist if we had had a moon base all along)
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To: LS

On my way. hehehe


34 posted on 05/30/2005 5:25:18 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Children's classic songs updated for Islam "If you're happy and you know it, Go Kaboom!")
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To: LS

Great article. Thanks for posting it here.


35 posted on 05/30/2005 5:28:50 PM PDT by lodwick (Integrity has no need of rules. Albert Camus)
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To: Para-Ord.45

Since you posted a thread yesterday (Jefferson/Madison/Franklin Hated God ! ?), I thought this might interest you.


36 posted on 05/30/2005 5:29:17 PM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: LS
Interesting replies there, I think they're trying really hard to avoid looking like wild eyed witch hunters seeking someone to brand a heretic against the wholly secular church of 'ME'. Must be part of the Demonicrats push to appear more religious.

No matter how much evidence to the contrary, you will always have people who will pick and choose their "factual" data to try to twist history. Whether Christian by the standards of today or not, a great many of these men believed in the Judeo-Christian God and that belief guided them throughout their lives.
37 posted on 05/30/2005 5:43:23 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Children's classic songs updated for Islam "If you're happy and you know it, Go Kaboom!")
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To: Dr.Zoidberg

Exactly, and the "personal witness/born again" approach of the Baptists like Billy Sunday and Smith Wigglesworth (I know, he wasn't a Baptist) and Billy Graham was a phenomena that didn't really appear until the mid-1800s in most places.


38 posted on 05/30/2005 5:51:12 PM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of news)
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To: mugs99

As I indicated previously - I think your "confusion" is a deliberate smokescreen. Nobody could be THAT clueless. LOL


39 posted on 05/30/2005 5:55:11 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Bad news for atheists: Postmoderns reject all meta-narratives including macro-evolution. LOL)
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To: LS
Well, traveling preachers wouldn't have had as large a congregations without the singing, dancing and pew jumping that came to epitomize the church of the bible belt and in may ways still does to this day.

Just because the Founding Fathers didn't have a hallelujah chorus and tambourine shakers following them everywhere they went doesn't men their faith was missing.
40 posted on 05/30/2005 6:01:11 PM PDT by Dr.Zoidberg (Children's classic songs updated for Islam "If you're happy and you know it, Go Kaboom!")
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To: Bommer

There is some merit to separation being a concern of the Founding era. The history of the English Civil War of the 1600s was well known to the American colonists - warring factions had included Anglican Arminians, English Calvinists, Scots Irish Presbyterians, and Irish Catholics. A lot of the American colonial population were descended from religious groups who set sail as a result of that Civil War.

The New England colonies were hostile to non-Congregationalists. Virginia had the Church of England as its State Church. Dissenting groups, Baptists, Methodists, and so forth were very wary of having a new State Church establish itself after the Revolution.



41 posted on 05/30/2005 6:27:20 PM PDT by Pelham
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To: mugs99
Calvinism is closer to Deism than it is to Christianity.

Hardly. You evidently have not taken a look at Calvin's Insitutes. Calvin considered himself Luther's student. Both had been Catholics prior to the Reformation, both were greatly influenced by Augustine's writings.

42 posted on 05/30/2005 6:32:31 PM PDT by Pelham
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To: muir_redwoods

Indeed--yet today it sends task forces to the AirForce academy to document complaints against Christians-Go figure.None of our public institutions I am aware of have
remained true to their foundations especially among the schools that trace a history back prior to the War Between the States.


43 posted on 05/30/2005 7:12:05 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: Blood of Tyrants

And Harvard has the infamous Peter Gomes -a homosexual who
thinks one can be a good Christian and unrepentant homosexual at th esame time--and says most people don't know
how to read the Bible. Typical of the Reprobate aint it.


44 posted on 05/30/2005 7:14:16 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: LS

Moot point -have not verified it - But I recall the motto was Veritas Christo et Ecclesia Truth, Christ and the Church.


45 posted on 05/30/2005 7:16:51 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: LS

The intelligence of children is very underestimated. My mother came from a brit colony where everyone of a certain primary school age had to learn latin for church. Do you know of any government school teaching elementary school kids latin? I don't.


46 posted on 05/30/2005 7:18:41 PM PDT by cyborg (I am ageless through the power of the Lord God.)
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To: Bommer

"Separation of church and State" by Philip Hamburger, (Law Professor at the University of Chicago)University of Harvard Press ,2000; see also "thomas Jefferson and the Wall of Separation between church and State" by Daniel Dreisbach ,New York University Press,2000;See also Library of Congress display "Christianity and the Founding of the
American Republic,1998James H.Hutson-to name a few,


47 posted on 05/30/2005 7:23:25 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: ConservativeDude

And Law was more honorable then-lawyers closer to the Divine Law.


48 posted on 05/30/2005 7:25:40 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: LS

They were also all men. White men.

Oh the humanity....


49 posted on 05/30/2005 7:29:52 PM PDT by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: Matchett-PI

Mugs is suffering from Romans 1:21 syndrom.


50 posted on 05/30/2005 7:31:40 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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