Skip to comments.Did You Know that Half the Declaration's Signers Had Divinity School Training?
Posted on 05/30/2005 12:47:24 PM PDT by LS
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Tell that to the ACLU and they'll sue to de-constitutionalize our country.
That's partly bacause most schools were religiously affiliated. Yale was a seminary when it began.
Harvard, Yale, Princeton, and Vanderbilt were all originally divinity schools. They still have divinity courses becaue it is required in their charters but they are only token courses often taught by people who view Christianity as for the unenlightend, unwashed masses.
At least one of the signers, George Ross, was the son of an Anglican minister.
Swarthmore was a Quaker institution.
His education was paid for by a stipend donated by the St. Croix business community. They had hopes he might become a doctor and return to the island to set up practice. Must be thinking about Hugh Knox, a Presbyterian minister, a graduate of the College of New Jersey, who some think was responsible for motivating the St. Croix business people to set up Hamilton's stipend.
His earlier education was done privately by a local Jewess. His family history probably kept him out of the local religious school.
A letter written to Edward Stevens from the West Indies during Hamilton's early employment at the counting
Interestingly the "logo" at Harvard was three books, two turned face up, but one turned face down to symbolize that man will not know all truth. Moreover, the original motto was "Veritas et Christo" Truth and Christ. Now, the logo is three books, all face up, and just "Veritas."
Did you know that after flunking out of Harvard Law, Algore flunked out of divinity school at Vanderbilt?
A real interesting essay would be how this whole separation of church & state was implemented by the Supreme Court, the players involved, how they got away with this and why?
Much, much thanks! That's the source of it, alright!
Some speculate, based solely on reports of their close resemblance, that Edward Stevens was Hamilton's half-brother.
Cannot imagine a 14 year old writing such a letter. Not the kind of prose I would have written at that age. But then, even his poetry surpasses the maudlin doggerel I did pen at about the same age. And of course, he did pretty much run that counting house. Quite a remarkable person, that Hamilton.
This headline is both accurate but slightly misleading.
It is true (as already posted) in the sense that all schools were "divinity schools" in that day....It was commonplace for the educated class to have an education would would rival the clergy and be almost indistinguishable from the clergy. That is extremely significant.
That said, it is not true that they were seminary graduates in the sense that we think of it today....Only John Witherspoon was a clergyman, although two of the others had been clergy in a previous life.
But each of Harvard, Yale and Princeton were basically like seminaries or would look like what we would think of nowadays as a seminary.
Also...John Adams' father was a minister of the Gospel and he desired John to follow in his footsteps, but John chose the law. I'm sure others were the sons of ministers in addition to Adams and Ross.
" while John Adams was the most overtly pious"
I believe Witherspoon would strongly disagree with that...
Also...did y'all know that Ben Franklin proposed once in a letter to the evangelist George Whitefield that they start a colony in Ohio in order to evangelize it and train up the "savages" there to become members of Christian civilization?
Thus...we se yet again what the author of this piece is getting at: even the least religious of the founders were more evangelical than our most religious today.
Why does the list of religious affiliation posted by kabar differ from the list posted by you? There are many more lists that could be posted that differ from the two posted by you and kabar.
There is no historical documentation that factually lists these men by religious affiliation and for good reason. In colonial times your religion was the religion of the colony you lived in. Most of the states at the time of the Constitutional Convention, did not allow confessed Deists to hold public office.
Among our founders was a famous Jew and a famous Atheist, yet you don't see a Jew or an Atheist on the list. That was changed by the separation of church and state. Do you really believe that separation of church and state would have been overwhelmingly supported if all those guys were Christian and wanted a Christian America?
Read what the Founding Fathers said about this subject:
James Madison (Architect of the U.S. Constitution & Co-Author of the Federalist Papers)
"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
(also From his notes)
"Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."
"Religion [is] the basis and Foundation of Government."
Patrick Henry (...as for me, give me liberty or give me death!)
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased a the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
Benjamin Rush (signer...Declaration of Independence)
"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals and so little pains to prevent crime. Take the Bible out of our schools and there would be an explosion in crime."
"I have alternately been called an Aristocrat and a Democrat. I am neither. I am a Christocrat."
"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."
"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world."
"If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may ovenvhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity."
"Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles with the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political, or literary.
"If religious books are not widely circulated among the masses in this country, I do not know what is going to become of us as a nation. If truth be not diffused, error will be; If God and His Word are not known and received, the devil and his works will gain the ascendancy, If the evangelical volume does not reach every hamlet, the pages of a corrupt and licentious literature will; If the power of the Gospel is not felt throughout the length and breadth of the land, anarchy and misrule, degradation and misery, corruption and darkness will reign without mitigation or end."
In 1832, Noah Webster published his History of the United States, in which he wrote:
"The brief exposition of the constitution of the United States, will unfold to young persons the principles of republican government; and it is the sincere desire of the writer that our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament or the Christian religion.
"The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles, which enjoins humility, piety, and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person a brother, or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free Constitutions of Government.
"The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all of our civil constitutions and laws....All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.
"When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God. The preservation of a republican government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty;
"If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made not for the public good so much as for the selfish or local purposes;
"Corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded.
"If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws."
"Corruption of morals is rapid enough in any country without a bounty from government. And...the Chief Magistrate of the United States should be the last man to accelerate its progress."
Laws and rights based on the Christian religion results in an unquestionable legitimacy...to believers.
If we 'cleaned house' of ALL government laws, statutes, including the U.S. Constitution of anything based on Judeo-Christian morals and values, what rights would we the people have left?
At the end of the day - most of ours laws are based on a MORAL vrs. IMMORAL code that is rooted in religious beliefs. If laws and rights are not based in a large part on religion - which results in an unquestionable legitimacy, all laws and rights would flow from only the opinion of the most powerful.
Katherine & Van Jenerette
Self-deception is the worst. LOL
"Did You Know that Half the Declaration's Signers Had Divinity School Training?"
Did you know that almost all of those who will eventually destroy the Declaration of Indepence have had no Divinity School training?
You offered up Calvinism...How does Unitarian differ from Deist? How does Calvinist show evidence of Christianity?
I was honest enough to point out that some of the Calvinist listings were biased even though Calvinism is closer to Deism than it is to Christianity.
How does Deist equate to God hater and Calvinist (Unitarian) does not?
I wouldn't think such prose possible of such an age, either, but remember, children of 200 years ago---who were educated---were educated in letters and math to a FAR greater degree (given what they could be taught) than today. I've seen a state of NJ high school ENTRANCE test from 1891 that would stagger most college graduates.
Lessee, what was that about church and state?
Lol. Go to the actual site of my piece, www.historynewsnetwork.com, and look at some of the comments! They are already out!
And the fact that, as one poster said above, that you were of the faith of your colony/state, well, that's significant: it says PRECISELY that there was a union of church and state. Maybe not of church and the federal government, but certainly church and each state.
ping to self for later pingout.
That's the thing. Especially the institutions of higher learning.
On my way. hehehe
Great article. Thanks for posting it here.
Since you posted a thread yesterday (Jefferson/Madison/Franklin Hated God ! ?), I thought this might interest you.
Exactly, and the "personal witness/born again" approach of the Baptists like Billy Sunday and Smith Wigglesworth (I know, he wasn't a Baptist) and Billy Graham was a phenomena that didn't really appear until the mid-1800s in most places.
As I indicated previously - I think your "confusion" is a deliberate smokescreen. Nobody could be THAT clueless. LOL
There is some merit to separation being a concern of the Founding era. The history of the English Civil War of the 1600s was well known to the American colonists - warring factions had included Anglican Arminians, English Calvinists, Scots Irish Presbyterians, and Irish Catholics. A lot of the American colonial population were descended from religious groups who set sail as a result of that Civil War.
The New England colonies were hostile to non-Congregationalists. Virginia had the Church of England as its State Church. Dissenting groups, Baptists, Methodists, and so forth were very wary of having a new State Church establish itself after the Revolution.
Hardly. You evidently have not taken a look at Calvin's Insitutes. Calvin considered himself Luther's student. Both had been Catholics prior to the Reformation, both were greatly influenced by Augustine's writings.
Indeed--yet today it sends task forces to the AirForce academy to document complaints against Christians-Go figure.None of our public institutions I am aware of have
remained true to their foundations especially among the schools that trace a history back prior to the War Between the States.
And Harvard has the infamous Peter Gomes -a homosexual who
thinks one can be a good Christian and unrepentant homosexual at th esame time--and says most people don't know
how to read the Bible. Typical of the Reprobate aint it.
Moot point -have not verified it - But I recall the motto was Veritas Christo et Ecclesia Truth, Christ and the Church.
The intelligence of children is very underestimated. My mother came from a brit colony where everyone of a certain primary school age had to learn latin for church. Do you know of any government school teaching elementary school kids latin? I don't.
"Separation of church and State" by Philip Hamburger, (Law Professor at the University of Chicago)University of Harvard Press ,2000; see also "thomas Jefferson and the Wall of Separation between church and State" by Daniel Dreisbach ,New York University Press,2000;See also Library of Congress display "Christianity and the Founding of the
American Republic,1998James H.Hutson-to name a few,
And Law was more honorable then-lawyers closer to the Divine Law.
They were also all men. White men.
Oh the humanity....
Mugs is suffering from Romans 1:21 syndrom.