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Why China is poised to streak ahead of the West
Edmonton Journal ^ | May 27, 2005 | David Finlayson

Posted on 05/31/2005 4:06:20 AM PDT by aculeus

EDMONTON - China's doing things the rest of us don't even know about, and unless we change quickly they will streak past us, futurist Frank Ogden says.

"They are speeding ahead in so many areas because they have the ability to get big things done very quickly," the man known as Dr. Tomorrow told the Construction Specifications Canada conference here.

"They're very smart, they think differently from us, and they have no restrictions on anything," said Ogden, an 84-year-old world traveller who lives on a high-tech houseboat in Vancouver.

In three weeks they relocated the residents of a large city block in Shanghai, bulldozed the buildings and built a 1,000-bed isolation hospital using 10,000 conscripted workers, Ogden said.

On the last day of construction, a stream of ambulances was bringing in patients.

"They work 15 hours a day, every day, with no union interference, and that's what's going to beat us," Ogden told the gathering of architects, engineers and other construction-related sectors.

Their wages have also doubled in the last couple of years to 28 cents an hour, so the workers think they're making big money.

And China's not only manufacturing pots and pans any more. It's producing quality, intricate items such as scientific instruments, he said.

"The infrastructure stinks, but they're working on that. And when they decide to do something it happens in a hurry."

They also have no restrictions on reproductive technology so they could clone people and rent them out to North America, which is facing a shortage of workers, said Ogden, with a wink.

North America's future will be vastly different as China's economy grows and the world keeps moving ahead at warp speed, he said.

Nine-to-five jobs will become a piece of history as we put in almost full days on the job, he predicted.

"We also have to learn much faster or other countries will do it and sell it back to us. The current, inefficient university lecture system will have to replaced, and he sees a day when we're all using new Sony technology that puts information into our brain patterns while we're asleep. "That was in the realm of science fiction for years, but just imagine how quickly you can absorb information that way."

Companies will also have to become incredibly creative to compete globally, Ogden said.

"Don't even think of a box, never mind outside it. Every company should have a smart 12-year-old who thinks off-the-wall. In China they've just grown a monkey's heart, and if you can do that you can do anything."

dfinlayson@thejournal.canwest.com

© The Edmonton Journal 2005


TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: china; globalism; trends
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1 posted on 05/31/2005 4:06:21 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
Oh, sure. That's gonna happen. Mmmm, hmmm... </sarcasm>


2 posted on 05/31/2005 4:10:11 AM PDT by rdb3 (One may smile and smile and still be a villain.)
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To: aculeus

Did I miss the memo? Is it All-kneel-down-for-the-Communists day in Canada again? I thought that was last week.


3 posted on 05/31/2005 4:10:51 AM PDT by libs_kma (USA: The land of the Free....Because of the Brave!)
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To: aculeus
"They're very smart, they think differently from us, and they have no restrictions on anything,"

Since a bunch of the Chinese are women, I would imagine that some of the feminists (epecially the college types) will be making a lot of noise about this statement . . . . . . . . . . . . or maybe not.

4 posted on 05/31/2005 4:12:13 AM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: aculeus

If they don't self destruct through pollution. Most of their rivers and ground water is incredibly polluted and you don't want to breath in their big cities. Read somewhere that the average mainlander gets less than 1/3 the average clean water of the rest of the world, and it's getting worse.


5 posted on 05/31/2005 4:13:13 AM PDT by ProudVet77 (Warning: Frequent sarcastic posts)
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To: aculeus
A couple small details on the glowing praise of Red China:

1. Capitalism and freedom go together. The oligarchy of the communist party must stay in control. They are following the path of the Soviet Union--glasnost and peristroika. The collapse of their government is inevitable.

2. Religious freedom, in the form of house churches of Christianity, is the most irresistible force in China. The more the government persecutes Christianity, the more it will flourish. The Christianization of the Chinese alone will bring down or profoundly change their government.
6 posted on 05/31/2005 4:13:25 AM PDT by Forgiven_Sinner (God is offering you eternal life right now. Freep mail me if you want to know how to receive it.)
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To: aculeus

Before taking this guy seriously, take a look at his website. He lives on an igloo house boat in Canada and calls himself Dr. Tomorrow.

http://www.drtomorrow.com/

He doesn't actually seem to have "qualifications"


7 posted on 05/31/2005 4:17:04 AM PDT by Soliton (Alone with everyone else.)
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To: aculeus

And who's the benefactor??? It's certainly not the regular people...

George B and company is doing his best to take us down this path...And he's doing a good job of it...

Funny thing is, too many Americans think they're going to get in on this scheme and make their money at the hands of the working guy...And right now, it's working...Buying this cheap junk from China at pennies on the dollar and selling it to Americans for what a similar American item would cost is makeing more than a few heads turn...

Before long, we will be working for the same wages the Chinese are...Have to just to have a job...


8 posted on 05/31/2005 4:22:11 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park!!!)
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To: aculeus

The same was said of Nazi Germany and the USSR. By trampling indivual freedom and political dissent, it was thought they were unbeatable. I'll keep my money on personal liberty.


9 posted on 05/31/2005 4:22:37 AM PDT by SampleMan
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To: aculeus
Nine-to-five jobs will become a piece of history as we put in almost full days on the job, he predicted

Guess I'll be living in a cabin somewhere in the backcountry.

10 posted on 05/31/2005 4:24:53 AM PDT by bikepacker67
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To: rdb3

Doncha remember?

This was done previously by the USSR in the 1950s, then by Japan in 1980s. It looks like that China will do it before Brazil which is poised to surpass the West in 4822 A.D.


11 posted on 05/31/2005 4:26:49 AM PDT by beckaz (Hey Senate Pubbies, act like the majority already)
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To: A. Pole; Willie Green; dennisw

ping


12 posted on 05/31/2005 4:29:21 AM PDT by raybbr
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To: aculeus
and they have no restrictions on anything

Except they don't have free speech, can't critique their own government, and their Internet is filtered for 'subversive' content. Other than a million restrictions like these, they have no restrictions on anything.

13 posted on 05/31/2005 4:31:14 AM PDT by caspera
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To: aculeus; TigerLikesRooster; Dr. Marten; enemy of the people

Bullsh*t, Mr Finlayson.

Bullsh*t!


14 posted on 05/31/2005 4:34:52 AM PDT by Brian Allen (All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing -- Edmund Burke)
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To: aculeus
With no respects toward "futurist" Frank Ogden, the old man babbles about ...

"They're [chicoms] very smart, they think differently from us, and they have no restrictions on anything" ...

yet admits they used "10,000 conscripted workers" to build that hospital.

All this as he sits dreaming his socialist thoughts in the comfort of his "high-tech houseboat" in Vancouver.

Methinks Ogden may be a bit put off by his accomodations in Heaven, though I have heard it said there is no slavery there.

15 posted on 05/31/2005 4:35:35 AM PDT by G.Mason ( It's people like you, that make people like me, people like you!)
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To: caspera
I wonder if this guy is funded by a Soros or Soros counterpart. I noticed the leftist money people trying to sing the same song (if you believe the MSM has a bias...), about China's zooming ahead. Do I hear the sound of the shears being sharpened to shear us sheep -- the American little guy investor?

The talk of delinking China's yuen from the dollar .... perhaps could cause a quick spike, but it seems to be they can't hide their corruption forever. Just a thought.

16 posted on 05/31/2005 4:36:16 AM PDT by elk
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To: raybbr

The author is a space case. Not that China isn't a huge menace but ....


17 posted on 05/31/2005 4:52:39 AM PDT by dennisw (He writes everything's been returned which was owed...)
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To: G.Mason
All this as he sits dreaming his socialist thoughts in the comfort of his "high-tech houseboat" in Vancouver.

On the internet anyone can anything to anyone at anytime. From your high speed connection on your high tech houseboat, in Vancouver.

18 posted on 05/31/2005 4:55:04 AM PDT by dennisw (He writes everything's been returned which was owed...)
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To: rdb3
Why China is poised to streak ahead of the West

Yeah sure. Actually, the rug can be pulled right out from China if their cheap labor becomes too pricey. You'd see foreign manufacturers pull their operations out of China fast looking for a better deal. China has a long ways to go when it comes to innovating ideas which really creates wealth, and may I point out, the US is world leader at innovation.

19 posted on 05/31/2005 4:55:49 AM PDT by demlosers
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To: libs_kma
I don't buy his predictions, (remember "Rising Sun"?) but anyone who thinks China is not a REAL threat is dreaming. They are actually closer to a capitalist country than we are in many areas, with more individual freedoms than we have, if you are not 1) a political dissident, or 2) a member of a "non-approved" religious sect. The economic opportunities there are staggering, and people are getting rich by the boatload. The labor pool there is astounding as they have more UNEMPOLOYED people (300 million+) than we have PEOPLE.

I don't believe they will prosper in the long run, as I am a Christian, and I believe that they will pay for the oppression of true believers in what they do to the "house church" movement. It is interesting, though, that they also have more Christians than we do, the church is growing faster, and the quality of zealousness among their ranks puts ours to shame.

The problems will come when some of the wealth being gained begins to lift the wage standards from $0.28 cents, and people want to enjoy some of their freedoms. The soviet bloc saw that freedom realized is like a cancer to a totalitarian system. It metastasizes and eats the heart out of the system. Combine that with the idea of the dignity of man and the fearlessness that a religiously energized populace (above) has, and you have the makings of a revolution, peaceful if possible, violent if necessary. That is why China brutally oppresses its religious minorities.

One problem with Freepers is they think that when some guy like this points out the real trends in an ascendant power, they act like he is bawling out that capitalism has failed and that the glorious socialist paradise has arisen. He is NOT saying that. Present plan has me selling my business and retiring in 3 years, with plans to teach English in Bejing for a couple of year afterwards. I want to be where things are happening, and China is such a place.
20 posted on 05/31/2005 4:56:21 AM PDT by chronic_loser
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To: aculeus

Haven't been in China since 1973. The place was an ecological disaster way back then. Since industrialization I can't imagine things there any way but ten times worse.
Soon the cancer rates and death from air and water pollution will start problems unforseen at this time.

GOOD.


21 posted on 05/31/2005 4:56:58 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: Joe Boucher
Soon the cancer rates and death from air and water pollution will start problems unforeseen at this time.

Not a problem. You must have missed the part where this Vancouver rocket scientist said China would be cloning human worker ants.

22 posted on 05/31/2005 5:01:41 AM PDT by dennisw (He writes everything's been returned which was owed...)
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To: aculeus
built a 1,000-bed isolation hospital using 10,000 conscripted workers Slave Laborers.
23 posted on 05/31/2005 5:02:33 AM PDT by joshhiggins
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To: dennisw

Say again? That message came in rather garbled. ;)


24 posted on 05/31/2005 5:04:42 AM PDT by G.Mason ( It's people like you, that make people like me, people like you!)
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To: King Prout

AND this one.

(You're right...something is on!)


25 posted on 05/31/2005 5:05:20 AM PDT by tiamat (Can't sleep...clowns will get me..can't sleep...clowns will get me...can't sleep....clowns will get)
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To: G.Mason

On the internet anyone can *SAY* anything to anyone at anytime. From your high speed connection on your high tech houseboat, in Vancouver.


26 posted on 05/31/2005 5:06:24 AM PDT by dennisw (He writes everything's been returned which was owed...)
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To: aculeus

I could do anything with 10,000 conscripted workers too! China is going to streak ahead with those conscripted workers - and the world will be a better place with China taking our place as the world's superpower - defending liberty and freedom everywhere.


27 posted on 05/31/2005 5:10:41 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.)
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To: beckaz
Correct.  Everyone is going to surpass the US in everything, yet it never happens.

One can only imagine just how further ahead the US would be if we didn't give untold billions to foriegn aid, didn't have our own media working against us or had the liberal left whining at every turn.

28 posted on 05/31/2005 5:11:31 AM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
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To: Soliton

Is he not th first recipient of the University of Victoria "Cheech and Chong" award for Creative Herbology


29 posted on 05/31/2005 5:17:09 AM PDT by colonialhk (sooprize sooprize sooprize)
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To: aculeus
they think differently from us, and they have no restrictions on anything,"

Im sure the thousands dead in Tinamen think differently

30 posted on 05/31/2005 5:20:37 AM PDT by stuck_in_new_orleans
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To: aculeus

china's doing well in some areas but that's only possible by forcing huge problems under the carpet.
The financial system in china is a scandal of untold proportions. Chances are most of common people's savings, in nationalized banks, are already toast coz china's banks are notoriously bloated with nonperforming assets and unrepayable loans (to other state units). When this bubble bursts, watch out for the repurcussions around the globe.


31 posted on 05/31/2005 5:22:54 AM PDT by voletti (Voletti)
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To: dennisw

like more rats i mean chineese is what they need?


32 posted on 05/31/2005 5:29:52 AM PDT by Joe Boucher (An enemy of Islam)
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To: chronic_loser

The Chinese economic system is closer to that of Nazi Germany than to the Red China of the Maoist era or the USSR under glasnost and perestroika or Lenin's New Economic Plan.


33 posted on 05/31/2005 5:32:52 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: aculeus

"They're very smart, they think differently from us, and they have no restrictions on anything..."

I think the Canadians have a lot of other things to worry about before they worry about the Chinese.


34 posted on 05/31/2005 5:38:06 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: aculeus
"They're very smart, they think differently from us, and they have no restrictions on anything."

The bad news is they're racist.

The other bad news is that they have America's military secrets, thanks to the Clinton Administration.

The other bad news is that Europe is decadent.

The other bad news is that almost half of the U.S. voting population is also decadent--the Left: the "Mainstream Newsmedia", academia, Hollywood, the Democrat Party, et al.

The good news is that the Chinese are not Muslim.

35 posted on 05/31/2005 5:42:30 AM PDT by Savage Beast (The Left IS the Dark Side.)
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To: dennisw
From your high speed connection on your high tech houseboat, in Vancouver.

Or from some shack in a tropical jungle.  I'm very happy to see so many sane people who know that China is a primitive agrarian society that can think it's a world player because it doesn't understand the world.  The MSM is probably happy that it can now have less trouble finding their really loopy input.

36 posted on 05/31/2005 5:49:08 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: chronic_loser
I think you used my post to go off on a tangent, because you have made some assumptions that would have been impossible to conclude from what I posted.

Anyway, Good Luck with your future plans.

37 posted on 05/31/2005 5:54:51 AM PDT by libs_kma (USA: The land of the Free....Because of the Brave!)
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To: aculeus

China: LAND OF THE COPY!


38 posted on 05/31/2005 6:07:36 AM PDT by Dallas59 (" I have a great team that is going to beat George W. Bush" John Kerry -2004)
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To: ProudVet77
Exactly.

China's pollution problems are so serious it would take several trillion US dollars to help resolve their pollution problems, especially air and water pollution that has already affect the health of many Chinese across that country.

39 posted on 05/31/2005 6:10:50 AM PDT by RayChuang88
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To: chronic_loser
Present plan has me selling my business and retiring in 3 years, with plans to teach English in Bejing for a couple of year afterwards. I want to be where things are happening, and China is such a place.

Sounds like a plan. I'm aiming for Vietnam, which is lagging by far but will improve once the old Viet Minh fogies die off.

You should learn some Mandarin before you move to Beijing.

40 posted on 05/31/2005 6:12:42 AM PDT by angkor
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To: aculeus

Jeez. I'll just slit my wrists now, thank you.


41 posted on 05/31/2005 6:13:33 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: dennisw
President Bill Clinton's Treasury Secretary, Robert Rubin, had been a co-chairman of Goldman Sachs. He recently told the Associated Press, "China is likely to be the largest economy in the world and a tough-minded geopolitical power equal to any other geopolitical power on the globe." So the business execs can't say they don't know what they're doing. Menges is right, they just don't care.

I don't know if you got pinged to this thread yet? This author is basically saying the same thing.

42 posted on 05/31/2005 6:18:52 AM PDT by raybbr
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To: softwarecreator
Correct. Everyone is going to surpass the US in everything, yet it never happens.

In the 1980's and 1990's, Japan, with their superior work ethic, greater brilliance, and amazing efficiency, was going to bury us.

In the 1970's and 1960's, Russia, with her parity in nuclear arms, more efficient production model, more-educated and culturally-aware populace was going to bury us.

In the 1940's, Germany, with it's vast technical superiority, fanatically-devoted populace, and amazing tactics, was going to bury us.

In the 1700's, Britain, with her amazing navy, disciplined troops, superior infrastructure, and technological advantage, was going to bury us.

Now they tell us China, with her efficient production, vastly-smarter populace, burgeoning population and incredible organizational skills are going to bury us.

Okay.

43 posted on 05/31/2005 6:19:10 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: aculeus
" ... In three weeks they relocated the residents of a large city block in Shanghai, bulldozed the buildings and built a 1,000-bed isolation hospital using 10,000 conscripted workers, Ogden said. ...
They work 15 hours a day, every day, with no union interference, and that's what's going to beat us ..."

Yep - Slave labor always trumps capitalism.

44 posted on 05/31/2005 6:28:09 AM PDT by MrBambaLaMamba (Buy 'Allah' brand urinal cakes - If you can't kill the enemy at least you can piss on their god)
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To: Lazamataz
Good background info.

Yep, now China's going to surpass the US. Next year we'll hear how the New Iraq© will surpass the US.

45 posted on 05/31/2005 6:28:19 AM PDT by softwarecreator (Facts are to liberals as holy water is to vampires)
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To: Forgiven_Sinner
You posted:


1. Capitalism and freedom go together. The oligarchy of the communist party must stay in control. They are following the path of the Soviet Union--glasnost and perestroika. The collapse of their government is inevitable.

2. Religious freedom, in the form of house churches of Christianity, is the most irresistible force in China. The more the government persecutes Christianity, the more it will flourish. The Christianization of the Chinese alone will bring down or profoundly change their government.




I certainly agree with both the above points. Now, imagine what the people of China could do if not bogged down by the inefficiency of communism and the suppression of their spirituality.

What if the Chinese could harness the benefits that would come from freedom of religion, free markets, and capitalism? Perhaps, Dr. Tomorrow agrees with the above 2 points, too!

The point I am making is that obviously, as long as China is communist and allows neither freedom of religion or freedom of speech, it is not going to surpass the USA economically. However, when they do become a free country, look out!

Think of a Honk Kong or Taiwan of over a billion people.
46 posted on 05/31/2005 6:30:35 AM PDT by rgboomers (This space purposely left blank)
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To: aculeus
...and they have no restrictions on anything...

This is what will probably engulf them in civil war. The "haves" are rather blatently mistreating the "have-nots". Even in judicial matters, the "haves" can literally get away with murder of the "have-nots". There is great trouble brewing inside China.

(My wife is Chinese, and she reads news from China.)

47 posted on 05/31/2005 6:44:43 AM PDT by GingisK
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To: aculeus
There was a German academic by the name of Leon Fuchtwanger, who said all the same things about the USSR under Stalin. China will do two things that make the world a more difficult place to live, neither involves assuming high-tech leadership.

China, like any other place attempting to rapidly develop, makes highly inefficient use of natural resources. This will lead to two unpleasant trends.

1) They will drive up the price of oil, chromium, and several other scarce resources.

2) They will become increasingly mercantilistic and militaristic in how they go about obtaining them.
48 posted on 05/31/2005 6:59:18 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (McCain's home state is the newsroom of The New York Times! -Mark Steyn)
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To: MrBambaLaMamba
Well, from what I've seen thus far (been here for 9 days now), work involves speaking to each other much of the time. Of course, I have yet to see the inside of a factory, but when the grocery, bank, restaruant, and shop employees mainly seem to follow the same pattern, you kinda get the hint. Heck, the law office we visited today seemed to have 5 people scramble for their cubicles trying to look busy when we started walking through. (Imagine 28 Law students on parade through your office... what would we see?! LOL)

The grocery stores are jaw-dropping. At least 2 employees lurk in EVERY aisle. I don't know if this is how they try to correct unemployment statistic problems, but it is clear why the wages remain low. Interestingly enough, despite the huge volume of aisle helpers (who don't speak English, so I muddle along on my own), the vash registers have only one person... no baggers to help cut the check-out time in half!

49 posted on 05/31/2005 7:12:12 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: GingisK

Another problem they are desperately trying to resolve: judicial competence. The rule of Law is relatively young here, and few judges outside of the cities (China is 65% rural) have legal training. They are appointed by local gov't, and are often beholden to politicians. Corruption is also a major hurdle. China now mandates that all new judges have legal training, but the pass rate for the Chinese Bar exam is incredibly low (10%?), and this is a huge need to fill the many positions. It will take at least a generation to make enough of a dent that these problems will begin to subside... but getting rid of the taint may take even longer.


50 posted on 05/31/2005 7:17:07 AM PDT by Teacher317
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