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Peacekeepers With Ray Guns
Strategy Page ^ | September 27, 2004 | James Dunnigan

Posted on 06/01/2005 12:06:22 AM PDT by strategofr

Next Summer, the U.S. Army and Marines are sending to Iraq a number of wheeled armored vehicles (Stryker, Armored Security Vehicle and marine LAV) equipped with a number of electronic non-lethal weapons. The three most likely weapons to be used are;

* Active Denial System (ADS). This one looks like a small, flat, radar dish. It transmits, a 92 gigahertz signal which will penetrate human flesh to less than half a millimeter, and in less than a second make people feel like their skin is on fire. But people would require the beam to stay on them for over four minutes before any actual burning would take place. Tests on volunteers confirm the burning sensation, and the desire to get out of the area quickly. How well this would work against various types of hostile crowds is not known. But the system has been in development for some fifteen years, and it’s thought that it will be safe and will produce no surprises. Some scientists have warned of possible eye damage, but this has not shown up in human tests. Current range is about 500 meters, although work has been underway to extend that by at least fifty percent. However, used on a large crowd, it could cause a stampede that could cause injuries, and even death. In any event, the media will condemn the system as inhumane.

* Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD), which is a high-powered bullhorn type of device that sends out a focused stream of sound. This can be used to tell to direct a verbal message to about 300 meters on land (and over 500 meters over water.) LRAD also has the capacity to send a focused sound that causes pain as well.

* High powered searchlights. Using new illumination technology, a very bright and focused light can have a deterrent effect at night.

Such “peacewagons” could move around quickly, and rapidly disperse hostile crowds, without killing a lot of people. In a place like Iraq, you would still have to deal with hostile fire, which is why this equipment is being carried on an armored vehicle.

The vehicle will also have the usual night vision devices, making it easier to find targets at night. In this case, the vehicles would be used in support of combat operations. The ADS or LRAD could be used to force enemy fighters to move this way or that, and make them easier to kill. The “Peacekeeper” vehicle would also have weapons, and could kill any bad guys it flushed out.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: bang; iraq; miltech; nonlethal; nonlethalweapons
For some reason, this stuff sounds scary to me. Maybe because, having never served, I've never experienced bullets, but I've experienced noise, spotlights, etc. Not sure why its disturbing, but it is interesting. Article published last fall so, if it is accurate, the weapons will be in Iraq soon.
1 posted on 06/01/2005 12:06:22 AM PDT by strategofr
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To: strategofr

Much better for the hearts-and-minds concept to disperse gatherings (incipient riots) without bloodshed. That's what this equipment is supposed to do.

If you could stop the Iraqi equivalent of a Watts riot without firing a shot, it's worth a try - so long as these don't supplant lethal weapons in terms of what's issued to troops.


2 posted on 06/01/2005 12:10:30 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Spktyr

It will probably also be good for dealing with terrorists who hide behind human shields.


3 posted on 06/01/2005 12:15:54 AM PDT by elmer fudd
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To: elmer fudd

Oh yeah, lots of applications.


4 posted on 06/01/2005 12:20:37 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: strategofr

It is uncertain if the ideas from US have hinted Israel, but these device also have been explored by Israel these days after these non-lethal weapons introduced by the US military have become public and gained attention from the media. However, regarding the milimeter wave, there has been objections from human rights group about the health hazard, that may result for extra tests that could delay the milimeter wave ADS.


5 posted on 06/01/2005 12:39:23 AM PDT by Wiz
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Squantos; Travis McGee

Information on items that could stop us pesky 'citizens' from expressing dismay at domestic tyranny.


7 posted on 06/01/2005 12:54:47 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: Nihao
I find these non-lethal weapons terrifying because conventional weapons have a built-in deterrent factor: soldiers or cops won't shoot at you unless they actually want you dead. A copy could go around blasting people with non-lethal weapons all day, and essentially he's guilty of nothing more than being a nuisance. If these things work as advertised, I'd expect to see them used freely and often.

Well stated. Thanks for putting my unease into words.

8 posted on 06/01/2005 12:55:57 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: Spktyr

An old fashioned water cannon fed from a septic tank would be a cheaper and much more robust solution.


9 posted on 06/01/2005 12:58:22 AM PDT by GSlob
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To: Nihao

Well at least for the moment they are very expensive. That should help keep it in limited use.


10 posted on 06/01/2005 1:04:40 AM PDT by DB ()
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To: Wiz
However, regarding the milimeter wave, there has been objections from human rights group about the health hazard, that may result for extra tests that could delay the milimeter wave ADS.

Just have to keep shooting them, I guess. At least until the health hazard test data are in....

11 posted on 06/01/2005 1:07:59 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Grant no power to government you would not want your worst enemies to wield against you.)
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To: Lazamataz

Col Ulius Louis Amoss.........:o)


12 posted on 06/01/2005 1:11:02 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: strategofr
Active Denial System (ADS). This one looks like a small, flat, radar dish. It transmits, a 92 gigahertz signal which will penetrate human flesh to less than half a millimeter, and in less than a second make people feel like their skin is on fire.

Wouldn't playing Metallica at 100 dB have about the same effect?

13 posted on 06/01/2005 2:28:43 AM PDT by 6SJ7
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To: Lazamataz; Squantos

Move along, there is nothing to see here.


14 posted on 06/01/2005 2:34:17 AM PDT by SLB ("We must lay before Him what is in us, not what ought to be in us." C. S. Lewis)
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To: Squantos
I didn't get that reference until I googled it. Of course.

Well, luckily, you and I are outstanding citizens who think that ANY idea our government comes up with is NIFTY! I *love* the Patriot Act! I *love* CFR. Heck, I love what they haven't even thought of yet!

(flag waving)

(flag waving)

15 posted on 06/01/2005 3:29:19 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The Republican Party is the France of politics.)
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To: strategofr

Active Denial System (ADS) would be good for the troops microwave popcorn when on base.


16 posted on 06/01/2005 4:05:19 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
There was a chemical that Noriega used when the civil population came out against him en mass.   Water tank trucks would come on the scene and hose the crowds down with a watery liquid that had a red color.  A doctor was telling me that it caused pain, burned the skin, and medical staff who touched the liquid on the patients were also injured if they didn't have gloves or something on.  

My guess it was sulfuric acid and that the trucks were manned by the Cubans and Nicaraguans he had in Panama.  Strange-- I never heard Amnesty or the press ever complain about it.

17 posted on 06/01/2005 4:22:59 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: R. Scott
Active Denial System (ADS) would be good for the troops microwave popcorn when on base.

I misread that. I thought ADS stood for Active Dental System.

I figure you get 20 or 30 of these guys with rusty drill and the crowd will disburse in no time:


18 posted on 06/01/2005 4:27:40 AM PDT by m87339 (If you could see what a drag it is to see you.)
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To: Lazamataz
So I take it you're not too hot on my Clone Army idea?


19 posted on 06/01/2005 4:28:01 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: strategofr

Seems like an incredible waste of money and risk of Soldiers lives to me. Kinda like herding cats that carry machine guns with nothing but a water hose.

If you have no more deterent effect than non lethal weapons, the Islamics will be attracted to these riots because they can rage and not be hurt. But when you really want to grab that brass ring you can pop a soldier with a single sniper shot from the crowd.

This is nothing more than an Islamic version of an Amusement park with Americans for the door prize.


20 posted on 06/01/2005 4:29:20 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: Lazamataz; Squantos

Sad thing is, the slammies seem to be the ones rehearsing and practicing "leaderless resistance" right in our midst. Random mullahs issuing fatwas, propaganda, strategy and ordes in arabic right under our noses, to be acted upon by any random kook or sleeper cell when opportune.


21 posted on 06/01/2005 4:40:01 AM PDT by Larry Lucido
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To: expat_panama
That could be. I have heard of dye being used to make it easier to round up the protesters later, which imho, could be a good idea.

A water canon worthy of the name should be able to put a lot of hurt on the people it hits, anyway. (I got washed into a pond with a 3" fire hose once as a fireman, and there is not much you can do.)

Acid, imho, might not have any color, but nitric will turn the skin orange, iirc.

10% Hydrochloric will give an instant burning sensation on skin contact, and will do some damage if you don't get washed off.

I have had sulfuric on my skin, but only at battery acid concentrations (not sure how strong that is), and it took a layer of skin off, but was not immediately painful.

It is hard to say what other lovely things someone like Noriega might have put in the water for 'entertainment' or punishment.

As far as Amnesty or the Press, they do much better at griping where there is freedom of the press than around any real dictatorships.

22 posted on 06/01/2005 4:46:15 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Grant no power to government you would not want your worst enemies to wield against you.)
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To: strategofr

I can't see these weapons being much use in Iraq for crowd control. The crowds will just reform and come back again and again until we escalate the response to something potentially life-threatening. Then we get called inhumane by the local as well as Arab press.


23 posted on 06/01/2005 4:53:36 AM PDT by Northern Alliance
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To: m87339

Why is it that all I have to do is think of a dentist’s drill and my teeth start to hurt – and I haven’t had any teeth in nearly 20 years.


24 posted on 06/01/2005 5:32:41 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: GSlob
An old fashioned water cannon fed from a septic tank would be a cheaper and much more robust solution.

Works for me ;-)

25 posted on 06/01/2005 6:31:00 AM PDT by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: Smokin' Joe
 Amnesty or the Press, they do much better at griping where there is freedom ...

Mark Twain wrote a short story fantasy about a guy meeting his 'conscience' and found out that a conscience only harangues a good guy and always leaves a dickweed alone.  The story was tongue and cheek with an element of truth, but in the case of Amnesty and the Press, IMHO they've just out and out ditched their mission and sold out to the bad guys.

26 posted on 06/01/2005 7:46:38 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: Larry Lucido; TEXASPROUD

The concept works. Remember Bader Meinhoff, El Brigata Rosa etc etc and their cell concepts. If working systems is adheared to they work and are extremely hard to defeat. Their downfall was that they belonged to the most basic part of a group, tribe, club, ethnicity etc. Thus the old saying ....the only way for 2 people to keep a secret is if one of em is dead. To belong is to be caught, punished, imprisoned or demonized with disinformational spin eventually.

Thus the concept adopted by Col Amoss......

I personally like to think my directives , instructions and orders were written for me in the 1700's. When I entered the service in 72 I took an oath to follow those secret plans. I have secreted copies of those documents away if the day comes where the soap, ballot or jury box is no longer effictive and I must get out the ammo box.

It's a plan........:o)

Stay safe !


27 posted on 06/01/2005 11:14:31 AM PDT by Squantos (Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet. )
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To: Smokin' Joe
10% HCl will speedily corrode most common metals which could be used in the water cannon construction. The worst affected will be the sealed bearings on power shaft. Getting HCl in the eyes is a recipe for being blinded, unless immediate attention is received. Also it would give a very serious respiratory damage. Sulfuric is no fun, either. Why not spray VX and be done with it?
28 posted on 06/01/2005 2:15:47 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: strategofr
Why would this disturb you? You are against more humane, yet effective technologies than billy clubs and bullets for dispersing mobs?
29 posted on 06/01/2005 2:18:46 PM PDT by TChris (Liberals: All death, all the time.)
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To: TChris

"Why would this disturb you?"

No logic to it. I am reporting an emotion that makes no sense, but it is a reaction I have.


30 posted on 06/01/2005 2:23:56 PM PDT by strategofr (What did happen to those 293 boxes of secret FBI files (esp on Senators) Hillary stole?)
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To: GSlob
Nitric would eat the metal, too.

So, speculating on what was in the tanks, maybe some dye, (rust in the water is possible, too) and something else, possibly an agricultural chemical pesticide/herbicide, although there would be a definite odor for either acids or ag chemicals.

Tough to say with Noriega, it could have been most anything. We do not have enough info to do much besides speculate.

31 posted on 06/01/2005 10:28:33 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (Grant no power to government you would not want your worst enemies to wield against you.)
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To: strategofr
Just wear this.


32 posted on 06/01/2005 10:34:28 PM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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