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Legislators Pass Bills Requiring Ammo ID - Numbers would be put on new bullets and cartridges.
LA Times ^ | June 3, 2005 | Jordan Rau and Nancy Vogel

Posted on 06/03/2005 2:18:30 AM PDT by calcowgirl

SACRAMENTO — California lawmakers Thursday voted to require weapons manufacturers to ensure that all bullets and cartridges are branded with distinctive serial numbers.

Contained in two measures that are intended to help law enforcement solve cases, the proposal would be unique among states if approved by the Legislature and signed by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

The gun industry said the proposals were impractical and would force weapons makers to either write off the huge California market or adopt practices that would greatly increase the cost of their wares.

(snip)

On the weapons measures, though a number of law enforcement officials backed them, there was strong opposition from Republican lawmakers, manufacturers and gun groups. Opponents said both measures would be useless in tracking most crimes back to their sources, because few criminals obtain their weapons through legal channels.

(snip)

One of the proposals, from state Atty. Gen. Bill Lockyer and approved in the Senate, 21-14, would require manufacturers, starting in 2007, to stamp bullets sold in California with a identification number that police could trace to the store where the ammunition was sold.

"We can put individualized serial numbers on cartons of yogurt, on almost everything in society, with very little additional cost," said Sen. Joe Dunn (D-Santa Ana), who sponsored the measure, SB 357.

The second measure, which was approved by the Assembly, 41-37, would mandate that all new semiautomatic handguns, starting in 2007, include technology that would stamp a distinguishing serial number onto a cartridge when it is fired. Assemblyman Paul Koretz (D-West Hollywood), the sponsor of AB 352, said the markings "won't always lead to the criminal, but it will create leads" for police.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: ab352; ammunition; bang; banglist; california; callegislation; cary; fascistkalifornia; joedunn; number9number10; paulkoretz; sb357
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1 posted on 06/03/2005 2:18:32 AM PDT by calcowgirl
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To: calcowgirl
This really is not practical. There are billions of unmarked bullets around, not to mention methods and materials to fabricate them.

The entire purpose of this legislation is to harrass gun owners.

2 posted on 06/03/2005 2:30:59 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: calcowgirl; All
 Lawmakers advance competing versions of bullet ID bills -- Bullet manufacturers have already said they won't comply with this law because it's too expensive and they've made it clear they won't sell to Kali police depts because they don't want to violate state law. Either the Kali legislatures give their own police a waiver from this restriction or they effectively disarm them.
3 posted on 06/03/2005 2:32:32 AM PDT by backhoe (-30-)
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To: calcowgirl
I have a slogan for it I think fits maybe on a bumper sticker: "Backdoor Gun Confiscation." Because when all is said and done, that's what this is about.

(Denny Crane: "Sometimes you can only look for answers from God and failing that... and Fox News".)
4 posted on 06/03/2005 2:33:33 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: calcowgirl

If this bill passes, We're going to have to demonstrate in mass at the governers office. I bet we'd have a huge turnout. What's next? put a bleeding tatoo on my hand that leaves a serial number on everything i touch?


5 posted on 06/03/2005 2:38:41 AM PDT by 1FASTGLOCK45 (FreeRepublic: More fun than watching Dem'Rats drown like Turkeys in the rain! ! !)
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To: calcowgirl

If this should become law I would like to see the manufacturers just refuse to sell to California.


6 posted on 06/03/2005 2:41:28 AM PDT by Flyer ( We have a no tolerance stance on making claims without authentic proof)
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To: calcowgirl

I want little smiley faces on MY bullets.


7 posted on 06/03/2005 2:45:21 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Allahu Fubar! (with apologies to Sheik Yerbouty))
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To: calcowgirl

I guess criminals will also go out of business if this new law passes. California is trying very hard to rid its state of all legal firearms that way we’re unable to fight back. I am sure Bab’s the boxer and Diane Whinestain is all for this bill.


8 posted on 06/03/2005 3:12:38 AM PDT by repubpub
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Obviously.

The Second Amendment is being diluted into meaninglessness by prostituting politicians.

A good deal of this legislation is generated by the high gun violence in "minority" communities. The problems there are sociological, not technological, but idiots like Dunn are perfectly willing to give away the Bill of Rights rather than point the finger at the massive illegitimacy rate, the continual production of more and more children without a biparental family and the total abnegation of personal responsibility in those communities.

Lets see if meathead, I mean the Gubernator has the tesicles to veto this. But I doubt evenb he has taken enough steroids to do so.

The system is broken. It can't be fixed. Our Republic is lost.


9 posted on 06/03/2005 3:20:57 AM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: calcowgirl

This is ridiculous. All of the idiotic regulations and requirements make California a very unattractive place to do business. It won't be long before you can't buy a damned thing there.


10 posted on 06/03/2005 3:21:31 AM PDT by Jaysun (No matter how hot she is, some man, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t)
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To: calcowgirl

This is just another example of un-American democrat mischief.Insane, unreasoning, unreasonable, obstructionist, seditious...democrats are killing their own future by waging a war of obstruction against American values.


11 posted on 06/03/2005 3:24:04 AM PDT by NetValue (No enemy has done as much damage to America as liberal democrats.)
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To: Mad Dawg

And include ID's for smoking accessories, such as bongs, lighters, zip locks, snack food the kids may take to school, needles, etc.


12 posted on 06/03/2005 3:25:03 AM PDT by tiger-one
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To: Jaysun

yep, other than a gay marrige license.


13 posted on 06/03/2005 3:28:26 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: calcowgirl

The implementation of this law will founder upon itself. Damn, these are some logistically stupid lawmakers. Kinda reminds me of the new vehicle code that requires 4x4's to carry chains- even though you are not required to put them on. Just have to have them in your vehicle.


14 posted on 06/03/2005 3:34:52 AM PDT by Treader (Hillary's dark smile is reminiscent of Stalin's inhuman grin...)
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To: calcowgirl
"We can put individualized serial numbers on cartons of yogurt, on almost everything in society, with very little additional cost," said Sen. Joe Dunn (D-Santa Ana), who sponsored the measure, SB 357.

Cartons of yogurt, with very few exceptions, offer a whole lot more space on which to imprint a 9 or 10 digit serial number. Also, these are usually lot numbers for quality control or expiration dates, not devices for tracing individual items.

On a related thread yesderday somebody quipped tongue-in-cheek that the the Kali legislators would probably find a compromise and pass BOTH bills. Funny how the marxists never fail to disappoint us, ain't it?

15 posted on 06/03/2005 3:37:38 AM PDT by Morgan's Raider
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To: calcowgirl
RELOAD!
16 posted on 06/03/2005 3:39:32 AM PDT by Hunble (Retired after 20 years with the U.S. Army)
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To: backhoe
"...Bullet manufacturers have already said they won't comply with this law because it's too expensive and they've made it clear they won't sell to Kali police depts because they don't want to violate state law."

That is a good idea if they stick to it, but probably someone will provide the ammo or the police will get an exemption from the requirement.

17 posted on 06/03/2005 3:45:56 AM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
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To: 1FASTGLOCK45

What's next?
A number tatoo on your arm -- your next stop will be Dachau.
The California legislators, meanwhile, should be forced to wear swastika arm bands.


18 posted on 06/03/2005 3:49:07 AM PDT by henderson field
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To: Hunble

Reloaders, from what others on FR have posted, will be regulated under this law. Every reloader in the state will have to buy equipment not yet produced to individually stamp each reload.

What this bill does do, is create another black market for mafias and gangs.


19 posted on 06/03/2005 3:50:28 AM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Yes, I'd expect an exemption... SOP for politicians & bureaucrats.


20 posted on 06/03/2005 3:58:04 AM PDT by backhoe
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To: calcowgirl

"California lawmakers Thursday voted to require weapons manufacturers to ensure that all bullets and cartridges are branded with distinctive serial numbers."

Distinctive?

Hmmmmmm.... sounds kinda silly. How many numbers can you fit on a .22 LR bullet?


This seems kinda pointless. If / when the bullet strikes something... wouldn't the number be deformed beyond regognition?


21 posted on 06/03/2005 4:13:14 AM PDT by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: backhoe

No exceptions for California police agencies, please, let them smuggle ammo like every one else.


22 posted on 06/03/2005 4:13:52 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (LET ME DIE ON MY FEET IN MY SWAMP, ALEX KOZINSKI FOR SCOTUS)
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To: henderson field
"The California legislators, meanwhile, should be forced to wear swastika arm bands."

They'd probably settle for an eagle and a snake.

23 posted on 06/03/2005 4:20:59 AM PDT by norton (build a wall and post the rules at the gate)
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To: backhoe
Either the Kali legislatures give their own police a waiver from this restriction or they effectively disarm them.

They give the cops a waiver and there goes equality before the law right down the drain.

Not that some animals aren't already more equal than others...

24 posted on 06/03/2005 4:26:06 AM PDT by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: calcowgirl

Go East; it is time to jettison the land of fruits and nuts.


25 posted on 06/03/2005 4:29:17 AM PDT by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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To: ZULU
Lets see if meathead, I mean the Gubernator has the tesicles to veto this. But I doubt evenb he has taken enough steroids to do so.

Interesting to see what he's going to do. I hope it's the right thing.

26 posted on 06/03/2005 4:37:10 AM PDT by stevio (Red-Blooded American Male)
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To: Hunble

You're right. Better buy lots of powder now because that's the next item to be banned. Projectiles (bullets) will not be a problem. The Japanese used wooden bullets towards the end of WW2.

Criminals generally work at close range, so accuracy is not a problem. Our nation is controlled by a bunch of idiots. I agree with ZULU that our Republic is lost.


27 posted on 06/03/2005 4:39:22 AM PDT by panaxanax
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To: Anti-Bubba182
The entire purpose of this legislation is to harrass gun owners.

You've got part of it...

This is just another in the list of things to try to get around the pesky second amendment of the constitution. Since even many of the gun banners have concluded that banning guns isn't the way to go (and many dems have discovered that supporting this sort of thing is costing them votes), they want to do anything they can to make guns and ammunition more expensive and harder to acquire.

If you can't ban the guns, then force the manufactures out of business... Tax the hell out of the ammunition... Enact legislation that is so onerous that manufactures will stop selling in their most lucrative markets, costing them $$$, then attack with lawyers, etc...

Mark

28 posted on 06/03/2005 4:48:45 AM PDT by MarkL (I've got a fever, and the only prescription is MORE COWBELL!!!)
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To: MarkL
Today, for the purpose of creating unique scientific instruments for astronomy, I now have my own CNC computer controlled mill and lathe.

It would not be that difficult for me to manufacture my own specialized weapons. Actually, one of these days, I should create a unique .22 cal target pistol, just for the learning experience.

In today's America, the government can do anything that it wants. Nobody can do a thing to stop them.

29 posted on 06/03/2005 5:00:10 AM PDT by Hunble (Retired after 20 years with the U.S. Army)
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To: calcowgirl

"legislators", let's get rid of these people, vote them out, over & over till there are no more left.they are going to legislate us into oblivion if we don't get our heads out of the sand...


30 posted on 06/03/2005 5:00:49 AM PDT by ronnied (big red)
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To: Anti-Bubba182

Bingo. The purpose and motivation of this and similar laws is identical to that of Jim Crow and the Neuremburg Laws. The goal is to make the pariah class (Blacks, Jews, and in this case gun owners) understand its place in society. When a law obviously cannot accomplish what is claimed for it, ask yourself what it does accomplish and you will know what the drafters have in mind.

Never, ever believe that the gungrabbers and their allies would not put you in a camp if they could.


31 posted on 06/03/2005 5:02:31 AM PDT by Rifleman
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To: calcowgirl

CA PLEASE fall off into the Pacific!


32 posted on 06/03/2005 5:20:12 AM PDT by zzen01
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To: calcowgirl
Holy Hell in a Handbasket, Batman! How ridiculous can it get? Next, CA requires the Sun to display digital time of day before it rises again in the East.

On the plus side, million-dollar homes are sliding off the muddy hills in protest...

33 posted on 06/03/2005 5:21:03 AM PDT by Sender (Team Infidel USA)
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To: zzen01
Careful. Some FReepers are hyper-sensitive about anyone advocating anything bad happen to their hyper-socialized State.

If this is an example of the "conservative" roots of Kalifornistan, then I'd hate to see what they come up with on the more "socialist" issues.

34 posted on 06/03/2005 5:29:34 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (Never underestimate the will of the downtrodden to lie flatter.)
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To: calcowgirl

All individual California oranges should have unique serial numbers to help investigators determine their origin and battle fly infestation.

Ditto for tomatoes, lettuce and all other food products.

If only one child is saved, it will be worth it.


35 posted on 06/03/2005 5:44:48 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Republican - The thinking people's party)
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To: calcowgirl
Wow.....another great Leftty "I wanna always feel safe", warm and fuzzy, totally impractical and historically galaxy-spanning idiotic idea.

Now we all have to ponder why CA has such huge budget problems with state politicians debating, writing and voting on such legislative nonsense.

36 posted on 06/03/2005 5:47:17 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: gieriscm

ping...


37 posted on 06/03/2005 5:53:31 AM PDT by BCR #226
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To: calcowgirl

This law could be nullified by a federal court because only the national Congress has the power to "regulate" commerce.


38 posted on 06/03/2005 5:54:19 AM PDT by tahiti
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To: Anti-Bubba182
not to mention methods and materials to fabricate them.

Sort of what my first thought was..
Has CA passed a law outlawing reloading, and reloading equipment?
If not, this new law is worthless.. ( or even More Worthless than it already was..)

39 posted on 06/03/2005 5:56:20 AM PDT by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: calcowgirl
The gun industry said the proposals were impractical and would force weapons makers to either write off the huge California market

Works for me.

40 posted on 06/03/2005 5:59:22 AM PDT by Sloth (I don't post a lot of the threads you read; I make a lot of the threads you read better.)
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To: calcowgirl
Gee...lets think logically...would any law abiding firearms owner rob a store and shoot the ownner with rounds labeled that would identify him/her....?

Well duh!

Seems to me that this will simply increase criminal activity in stolen ammo.....that points to the innocent, but those with deep pockets....

41 posted on 06/03/2005 6:01:03 AM PDT by cbkaty (I may not always post...but I am always here......)
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To: calcowgirl

Hacksaw CA off and send it adrift into the Pacific!


42 posted on 06/03/2005 6:06:25 AM PDT by mr_hammer (I call them as I see them!)
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To: MarkL

Didn't something similar to this at Lexington and Concord cause a lot of trouble?


43 posted on 06/03/2005 6:08:56 AM PDT by ZULU (Fear the government which fears your guns. God, guts, and guns made America great.)
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To: Morgan's Raider
>Cartons of yogurt, with very few exceptions, offer a whole >lot more space on which to imprint a 9 or 10 digit serial >

We could get around this by making the minimum caliber firearms .50 .... errr ..oops
44 posted on 06/03/2005 6:23:29 AM PDT by PzGr43
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To: calcowgirl
If I fire a marked bullet and do not collect by casing, and someone of dubious character picks up and reloads that round. He/She then uses it to kill a cop or something and allows the casing to fall to the ground as evidence. They then trace the round to me and convict me. This is extremely scary.
45 posted on 06/03/2005 6:25:56 AM PDT by KansasConservative1
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To: calcowgirl

and they will have a lot of blind sheeple to help advance there cause.


46 posted on 06/03/2005 6:48:00 AM PDT by realman
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To: KansasConservative1
Excellent point....just up the dollars for B&E to steal marked ammo so gang members can pin murders on law abiding citizens.

Hmmmm........real genius stuff at work here in the CA legislature....

47 posted on 06/03/2005 7:02:17 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: calcowgirl
If they actually pass this, every single bullet manufacturer should cease all sales in california, including to police.
48 posted on 06/03/2005 7:17:29 AM PDT by zeugma (Come to the Dark Side...... We have cookies!)
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To: zeugma

"every single bullet manufacturer should cease all sales in california, including to police."

I expect that. Barrett won't sell or repair PRK police rifles. It just won't be cost effective to sell into PRK.


49 posted on 06/03/2005 7:48:33 AM PDT by shellshocked (They're undocumented Border Patrol agents, not vigilantes.)
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To: zeugma

If that is true then the Nation Guard would be in violation.

This is sickening! At what point are people going to stand up and say enough is enough!


50 posted on 06/03/2005 10:46:57 AM PDT by beltfed308 (Cloth or link. Happiness is a perfect trunion.)
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