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Our Strange War
http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson200506030807.asp ^ | June 3, 2005 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 06/03/2005 5:09:21 AM PDT by mal

The three-year-plus war that began on September 11 is the strangest conflict in our history. It is not just that the first day saw the worst attack on American soil since our creation, or that we are publicly pledged to fighting a method — “terror” — rather than the concrete enemy of Islamic fascism that employs it.

Our dilemma is that we have not sought to defeat and humiliate the enemy as much as wean a people from the thrall of Islamic autocracy. That is our challenge, and explains our exasperating strategy of half-measures and apologies — and the inability to articulate exactly whom we are fighting and why.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: gwot; islam; jihad; jihadists; koran; oif; september12era; vdh; victordavishanson; waronterror; wot; wwiv
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1 posted on 06/03/2005 5:09:21 AM PDT by mal
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To: mal

BTTT


2 posted on 06/03/2005 5:13:12 AM PDT by Chgogal (Pinging 72 virgins. Pinging 72 virgins.)
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To: mal
From the article:

Still, most in the Middle East wish simply to embrace the human desire for prosperity, freedom, and security...

OK, I understand the theory.

Where's the evidence?

3 posted on 06/03/2005 5:13:46 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Nixon and Mitchell better start shakin'-Today's pig is tomorrow's bacon.)
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To: mal
From the article:

Still, most in the Middle East wish simply to embrace the human desire for prosperity, freedom, and security...

OK, I understand the theory.

Where's the evidence?

4 posted on 06/03/2005 5:14:38 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God)
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To: mal; MeekOneGOP; USF; jan in Colorado; Fred Nerks; All
LOLO

Oh Lord. VDH is gonna catch Hell for this one!

Imagine VDH trying to come out and say that we are actually at war with Islam!

That is what he said isn't it?

An American Expat in Southeast Asia

5 posted on 06/03/2005 5:21:23 AM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: expatguy
Yup, or we could say that Islam is at war with the world.

Wherever there are Muslims, Non-Muslims die. I think I will make that my new tagline. :)
6 posted on 06/03/2005 5:31:38 AM PDT by Chgogal (Pinging 72 virgins. Pinging 72 virgins.)
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To: Jim Noble

Yep, the come to the west for prosperity, freedom and security, then plot to make their adopted countries into the image of the sh**hole they just ran away from.


7 posted on 06/03/2005 5:48:33 AM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: mal
VDH's article makes clear two things:

1) The Bush Administration is pursuing the only course they can.

2) The Left will never, ever get it. They are psychologically incapable of understanding Administration strategy in the Middle East, because the actions necessary to carry out that strategy push all of their hot buttons, and they stop thinking the moment those buttons are pushed.

Short of Joe Lieberman delivering a harsh STFU speech to his fellow Democrats (which would get him branded as "another Zell Miller-type crank" by the Kennedy-Clinton Axis, but might convince some of the voting base) nothing is going to stop the Democrats from slandering and misstating Bush Administration policy for the next twenty years, regardless of whatever results are achieved.

8 posted on 06/03/2005 5:51:06 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("Violence never settles anything." Genghis Khan, 1162-1227)
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To: mal; neverdem; Lando Lincoln; quidnunc; .cnI redruM; yonif; SJackson; dennisw; monkeyshine; ...


    Victor Davis Hanson Ping ! 

       Let me know if you want in or out

9 posted on 06/03/2005 6:06:15 AM PDT by Tolik
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To: expatguy; PhilDragoo; devolve; Happy2BMe; yall
buuuuuuuuuummmmmp! :)

10 posted on 06/03/2005 6:16:47 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
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To: Jim Noble
Still, most in the Middle East wish simply to embrace the human desire for prosperity, freedom, and security...

OK, I understand the theory.

Where's the evidence?

Yeah.... I wonder the same thing. We've gone from drawing the line in the sand and saying your on our side, or your on the side of the terrorists.... to planting democracy as a way to defeat terrorism.

11 posted on 06/03/2005 6:19:20 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: expatguy
Thanks for the ping.

For now Islamic fascist strategy is to make such horrific news in Iraq that America throws up its hands and sighs, “These crazy people simply aren’t worth it,” goes home, snoozes — and thus becomes ripe for another September 11. Hmmm, in my mind, the word "fascist" after "islamic" is pretty much redundant.

He's on target again with this article... if America shows any weakness, or gives into any terror, it will serve to teach the jihadis that terrorism pays, and encourage its use even more in the future. The next generation of would-be Bin Ladens need to unlearn the ideas about the US being some kind of "paper tiger" (Binnys remark on the US involventmet in Somalia) who will run, or if you start killing a few of us, you can change US policy in your favor.

Let 'em choke on my tagline, or bring out their holy warriors so we can fill them with more holes.

12 posted on 06/03/2005 6:24:31 AM PDT by USF (I see your Jihad and raise you a Crusade )
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To: kjam22; Jim Noble

This seems to be the one thing that VDH simply does not get.


13 posted on 06/03/2005 6:24:38 AM PDT by expatguy (http://laotze.blogspot.com/)
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To: Jim Noble
Where's the evidence?

To most it is self-evident. It is the basis for the founding of this country. If you need an explanation or if you need convincing then you missed it.

To expect a country that has been brutally suppressed for 30 years and is presently under covert attack by the oppressors to suddenly turn into that Shining City on a Hill is either naive or dishonest.

14 posted on 06/03/2005 6:31:14 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not everything that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
To expect a country that has been brutally suppressed for 30 years and is presently under covert attack by the oppressors to suddenly turn into that Shining City on a Hill is either naive or dishonest.

But sir, you wrong me.

I don't expect any such thing.

In fact, if we wait 8000 years for it to happen, I don't expect it to happen.

Who are these "oppressors" of whom you speak? Are they, or their behavior, any different from the long and unhappy history of that barbarous region?

15 posted on 06/03/2005 6:38:28 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God)
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To: mal

BTTT


16 posted on 06/03/2005 6:39:33 AM PDT by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: expatguy
Imagine VDH trying to come out and say that we are actually at war with Islam!

That is what he said isn't it?

No.

He made very clear statements that we were at war with radical Islamicists, and that our strategy is to empower moderate Islam.

Quite a significant difference.

17 posted on 06/03/2005 6:42:12 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
To expect a country that has been brutally suppressed for 30 years and is presently under covert attack by the oppressors to suddenly turn into that Shining City on a Hill is either naive or dishonest.

I think it's been more than 30 years. This is Babylon. This region is basically like it has been for 3000 years. I think it may be naive to think that it will EVER turn into a shining city on a hill.

18 posted on 06/03/2005 6:42:45 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: mal
Our dilemma is that we have not sought to defeat and humiliate the enemy as much as wean a people from the thrall of Islamic autocracy. That is our challenge, and explains our exasperating strategy of half-measures and apologies — and the inability to articulate exactly whom we are fighting and why.

IMHO I think the above says it all!

19 posted on 06/03/2005 6:43:34 AM PDT by varon (Allegiance to the constitution, always. Allegiance to a political party, never.)
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To: Jim Noble

I think you and I see this very much the same.


20 posted on 06/03/2005 6:43:47 AM PDT by kjam22
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