Posted on 06/03/2005 7:51:21 PM PDT by saquin
WASHINGTON, June 3 - A military inquiry has found that guards or interrogators at the Guantánamo Bay detention center in Cuba kicked, stepped on and splashed urine on the Koran, in some cases intentionally but in others by accident, the Pentagon said on Friday.
The splashing of urine was among the cases described as inadvertent. It was said to have occurred when a guard urinated near an air vent and the wind blew his urine through the vent into a detainee's cell. The detainee was given a fresh uniform and a new Koran, and the guard was reprimanded and assigned to guard duty that kept him from contact with detainees for the remainder of his time at Guantánamo, according to the military inquiry.
The investigation into allegations that the Koran had been mishandled also found that in one instance detainees' Korans were wet because guards on the night shift had thrown water balloons on the cellblock. [My note: presumably at each other, joking around, rather than directly at detainees or their Korans]
In another case, a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of an English-version Koran, but investigators could not determine whether a guard or detainee had written it.
[...]
...a detainee who spoke conversational English complained that someone had written a two-word obscenity in English in his English-version Koran. The complaint was recorded in an electronic log. "It is possible," the military's statement said, "that a guard committed this act; it is equally possible that the detainee wrote in his own Koran."
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
I don't know who the hell you're talking to, though you addressed this to me. I didn't say anything to "justify desecration" or that "other countries would do the same thing". I said this is much ado about nothing. And it is.
In a maximum security facility holding terrorists, who have been known to taunt guards by tossing feces and urine at them etc, the fact that over a period of years there have been a handful of situations in which a Koran inadvertently "got wet" when water balloons were thrown or was kicked by a guard is simply NOT a huge story of sanctioned "desecration". It doesn't matter if they were Korans, Bibles or newspapers. A handful of incidents like this are inevitable and not indicative of widespread abuse or desecration. It is therefore a NON-STORY in my opinion.
We do hold ourselves to a higher standard, you fool. That's why we're handing out Korans to people trying to kill us instead of cutting their heads off and posting it on the internet.
I have a solution: simply stop providing Qur'ans to these people and there will be no more problems.
P.S. ever hear of Taqiyaa (sp?)??
I have had it with the liberal media trashing our guys everyday, and not a word about their hard work, bravery and compassion.
Agreed. It is a public relations nightmare, and for that reason there should be strict rules concerning the Koran (there probably already are) and the media should not report it.
But I do see the guy's point that it is offensive to kick another religion's holy book.
Good post, but I'd like to see a source for the following:
"In a maximum security facility holding terrorists, who have been known to taunt guards by tossing feces and urine at them etc,"
It just seems weird to me that a war prisoner would taunt his captors.
60 Minutes - Camp Delta: Guantanamo Bay
At first, Van Natta [Sgt. Maj. John Van Natta, warden at Camp Delta] said, prisoners used cups to throw urine, sewage or other concoctions at the guards.
Why would that be so surprising?
The weak suits at the pentagon and our weak politicians, thanks to the media and the corrupt left-wing politicians, have bound the hands of our military and their interrogators and the prisoners know it. We prosecute our soldiers if they shoot a terrorist in self-defense, or if they are too harsh when interrogating a known terrorist. The enemy knows this and uses it well to their advantage. The left-wing media is their best friend.
Even if the Marines have their hands tied, insulting them is a stupid thing to do. You don't have to torture someone to make his life a living hell. Sensory deprivation is allowed, and I'm sure there are other methods of punishment for prisoners who throw feces. So I'm curious.
Oh Please. Cut the crap.
Americans have a higher tolerance for other people's religions and beliefs than any other country in the world. It is even codified into our military regulations. I challenge you to show me any other country that would even do that, or even pay lip service to it. Certainly not the barbarous animals that slowly saw off people's heads while chanting how great their God is.
And what is with this "trying to minimize desecration of a holy book" garbage? Desecration how? Not handling the book with gloves? I suppose you take the word of those barbaric savages being held in Gitmo? Or perhaps the accusations of Amnesty International?
We treat our prisoners better than any country has ever treated it's prisoners. You show me anything to the contrary.
As for the revocation of your posting privileges, they don't do that if you disagree or have a contrarian view. They do it if you are being a troll, using foul language, condoning violence or breaking any of the written rules.
If you piss off a moderator to the point they just don't like you and kick you, well that is too bad as well. This is a privately owned web site, and they can exercise their freedom of association by kicking you if they don't like your name, if they so desire.
You must be doing something wrong if your posts get continually pulled. I doubt if it is because you simply disagree. I have been on here long enough to see the lay of the land, and they don't boot you because you like Ted Kennedy and are a socialist. They boot you if you are being deliberately incendiary for the sake of stirring things up. From the wording of your most recent post, I can see why some might like you kicked, but that isn't enough for a moderator to pull your posts.
We are also dealing with death cult zealots who have no problem blowing themselves up for their twisted idiology. I personally think that they purposely antagonize the guards and go out of their way to endure any punishment possible. Then, of course, they use it for propaganda. Just look at the outragous claims by those who went to Gitmo and were later released. Just search the net and you'll find them. The stupid thing is we give these a'hole's a voice and their complaints get published by the left-wing media. The terrorists and their media accomplists don't care that the public doesn't get to see the whole picture and get all of the details. The enemy knows this war is also about PR.
Anticommunist, why do you think that is weird?
US pilots held captive by the Vietnamese taunted their captors when they could, and often paid dearly for it. In spite of that, they kept trying to find ways to do it.
In an environment where they know the guards aren't going to drag them out by the hair and beat the tar out of them, why wouldn't they taunt their captors?
I didn't know that US POWS in Vietnam taunted their captors.
I was just thinking that if I was captured, I would be scared like hell.
Then again, the only military conflict I know much about is the war between Germany and the Soviet Union, and each brutalized and killed the POWs of the other.
By the way, I noticed you just joined up with a new account. So, you have to keep creating accounts to say anything?
Just some advice. I have had comments pulled by the moderator for various reasons. Just try listening to them, learn from your mistakes, and read the rules. You should have no reason to get your posts pulled.
That is, unless you are here for the sole purpose of agitating. Then, they do catch you pretty quick.
Yeah, they did. Of course, the ones who did it openly paid dearly for it, and there were a few incorrigibles who the N. Vietnamese just couldn't supress (Bob Schumaker was one, I think) but they beat them to within inches of their lives.
Then, of course, there were things like the guy flipping the bird with both fingers while his picture was being taken. And the guys who did it openly early on, telling their captors it was the "good luck sign".
I don't think they did it like the muslims in Gitmo apparently do to their guards. There are things the guards can do, but hanging them from the ceiling by ropes tied to their wrists behind their backs isn't one of them.
By the way...when I was in the US Navy, John McCain was my commanding officer for a short period of time. When I was a kid, I wore the bracelets, and when they released the POW's, I was there to greet them when some of them landed.
Our POW's were, and are, remarkable men.
The Vietnamese used the strappado torture method on Americans? That's terrifying stuff.
Yeah. They were pretty brutal. They manacled their hands in front of their body, then passed a rope through the elbows behind the body which they then inserted an iron bar into and twisted the rope until the shoulder joints popped out.
Man. Is that what it is called, strappado?
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