Skip to comments.GITMO DETAINEES DESECRATE QURAN
Posted on 06/04/2005 4:55:03 PM PDT by Conservative Firster
That's the headline you won't be reading over this AP story filed tonight on investigative findings released by Brig. Gen. Jay Hood, the commander of the detention center in Cuba.
Buried down in the AP story about Quran abuses at Gitmo, we learn:
[Hood] said his investigation found 15 cases of detainees mishandling their own Qurans. "These included using a Quran as a pillow, ripping pages out of the Quran, attempting to flush a Quran down the toilet and urinating on the Quran," Hood's report said. It offered no possible explanation for those alleged abuses.
In the most recent of those 15 cases, a detainee on Feb. 18, 2005, allegedly ripped up his Quran and handed it to a guard, stating that he had given up on being a Muslim. Several of the guards witnessed this, Hood reported.
The WaPo headline over the AP story instead reads: "U.S. Confirms Gitmo Soldier Kicked Quran." But the article provides no further details of that single incident, instead reporting on one instance of a contract interrogator, not a soldier, stepping on a Quran and then apologizing. The contract interrogator was later fired. In other cases, the story notes, "a guard's urine came through an air vent and splashed on a detainee and his Quran; water balloons thrown by prison guards caused an unspecified number of Qurans to get wet; and in a confirmed but ambiguous case, a two-word obscenity was written in English on the inside cover of a Quran."
The civil liberties Chicken Littles will again be up in arms. I've already received a late-breaking e-mail alert from CAIR assailing Gitmo's "climate of abuse." And the new media frenzy is already under way: here, here, here and here.
***Don't trust the MSM reports. Read the Pentagon's investigative findings for yourself here. See also the Pentagon news release, which puts things in proper perspective and the text of US military regs on handling the Koran. All in PDF. For those of you who can't read the files, I've included excerpts in the extended entry below.***
I repeat: Yes, there have been abuses by U.S. military personnel. Bona fide abusers should be, and from all reports appear to have been, investigated and punished accordingly. But as Charles Krauthammer writes powerfully in his column from earlier today, "the self-flagellation has gone far enough." Krauthammer's last words:
Does the Koran deserve special respect? Of course it does. As do the Bibles destroyed by the religious police in Saudi Arabia and the Torahs blown up in various synagogues from Tunisia to Turkey.
Should the United States apologize? If there were mishandlings of the Koran, we should say so and express regret. And that should be in the context of our remarkably humane and tolerant treatment of the Guantanamo prisoners, and in the context of a global war on terrorism (for example, the campaign in Afghanistan) conducted with a discrimination and a concern for civilian safety rarely seen in the annals of warfare.
Then we should get over it, stop whimpering and start defending ourselves.
Update: Here's an interesting e-mail that just arrived...
Your article describing the treatment of detainees and their access to books other than the Koran is accurate. The detainees also have their own medical facility and an exercise yard where they run, play soccer and engage in other physical activities.
I know these things because I was a guard there from Dec. 2002 to Sept. 2003. I was in a National Guard infantry unit assigned to man the towers inside and the checkpoints around Camp Delta. I have seen these things firsthand.
I will never forget seeing an MP waiting at Guantanamo Bay Naval Hospital after being splattered by a detainees bodily fluids. You never hear about these incidents in the media and you never hear about MP's having to be tested for hepatitis and other infections due to these incidents.
Gitmo, like most detention facilities, will never approach any state of perfection. However, from what I have observed, most injuries to detainees were self-inflicted, such as attempted suicides.
That notwithstanding, the general atmosphere is not threatening. I cannot count the number of times a detainee would look up at me in one of the towers and give me a friendly smile and wave.
Prior to our units deployment to Gitmo we were trained to look for any sign of abuse toward the detainees and report it immediately. We were given cards with specific steps to take if such an event occured. This card became an inspectable item that we had to carry in our uniform shirt pocket when on duty.
This was all done to drive home to us the idea that we were there to do three specific things. We were to keep out unathorized personnel, prevent the escape of detainees, and ensure the safety of the detainees.
The correspondent also notes:
1.The international media makes regular visits (almost every week when I was stationed there).
2. The IRC is there all the time. They don't just make occasional visits.
3. The FBI is there all the time. Not just to make inspections.
Update II: Miracles do happen. CNN gets a headline right: Detainees, not soldiers, flushed Quran
LGF's Charles Johnson sez: "It's riotin' time"
La Shawn Barber: "If I see one more Koran 'mishandling' story, I might just buy a few to kick around myself."
The Political Teen's solution: "DO NOT give them Qurans."
Joefish's Freshwater Blog lays out the Left's "Torture Narrative."
Austin Bay: Fifteen to Five: Terrorists Beat Gitmo Guards in Koran Mishandling
Cori Dauber: Details, details
Roger L. Simon: Keeping your eye on the ball
Gaijin Biker: Urine big trouble now
Ankle Biting Pundits: The answer my friend...
The Gitmo round-up
Letter of the morning: What about Castro's gulags?
In defense of Guantanamo Bay
Guantanamo Bay: The rest of the story
Exceprts from the report below:
- On 13 NOV 04, a guard conducted a routine cell search. While shaking out the sleeping mat, the guard accidentally knocked the detainees Koran out of the surgical mask [every Koran was hung on the wall in a surgical mask to protect it] onto the floor. The guard bent down and picked up the Koran. Available reports do not state which detainee owned the Koran; however, five detainees spat and threw liquids, including urine, at the guard after the Koran was touched.
- On 19 NOV 02, a detainee used his Koran as a pillow while he lay in his cell. The guards on duty recorded this incident....
- On 11 MAY 03, a guard observed a detainee rip up his Koran and state he was no longer a Muslim. The guard recorded the incident contemporaneously in a sworn statement.
- On 14 MAY 03, a guard observed a detainee rip his Koran into small pieces. The guard recorded the incident contemporaneously in a sworn statement.
- On 5 JUN 03, a guard observed two detainees accuse a third detainee of not being a man. In response, the detainee urinated on one of their Korans. The detainees resided in adjacent cells. The event was recorded in [FBI forms] on 5 JUN 03 and 19 JUN 03.
- On 23 FEB 04, a guard observed a detainee place two Korans in his toilet and state he no longer cared about the Koran or his religion. Five minutes later, after the detainee retrieved the Korans, he ripped several pages out of one Koran and threw the pages on the floor. Then he placed both Korans on the sink. The guard recorded the incident contemporaneously in a sworn statement.
- On 22 MAR 04, guard personnel observed a detainee tear the cover off of his Koran while inside his cell. The incident was recorded in the electronic blotter system.
- On 28 MAR 04, a detainee asked a guard to move a second detainee because he was throwing urine on the first detainees Koran. The guard recorded the first detainees request in the electronic blotter system. We have been unable to verify if the detainee was moved as requested.
Related article, from Military News site, in which article the key point is buried:
Koran Inquiry Reveals Pattern of 'Respectful Handling'
Ping for Ref -
Its old already.
"We have decided to stop the possibility of any Koran abuse by taking all Korans out of this facility. All of you are here for good reason. Christian prisoners in Saudi Arabia are not given Bibles. You guys should not be given Korans.
If we have no Korans here, there will be no more Koran abuse. Besides, we have something in America called the ACLU who views giving religious literature to prisoners as state sponsorship of religion. Not that they'd ever sue us because they only hate Christians, but we'd better not take the chance.
As for those Muslim meals, that might be viewed as state sponsored religion, too. So we're doing away with them. You guys can eat what we eat. Hope you like pork chops, because that's what we have on the menu tonight."
It's a freakin book nail i to a post and leave it for crow bedding and move on !
If it got out that we were forcing them to eat pork, they'd start killing 100 American soldiers a day in Baghdad.
We don't need to insult them or anything, though we should deny them Koran access.
What's going on at Gitmo? (Inmates playing soccer, volleyball, reading Agatha Cristie in Arabic)
No it's not okay
But, let me explain something, we are supposed to be better than them, therefore, doing what they do would be stooping to their level, and we're better than that.
Or in Roman terms, we're civilized, and they're the Barbarians, we shouldn't lower ourselves to their barbaric tactics.
Come back to reason. Take them out of the toilet and put them in the urinal as I told everyone to do in the first place.
"But, let me explain something, we are supposed to be better than them, therefore, doing what they do would be stooping to their level, and we're better than that."
Well it's not as if we have a policy of pissing on Korans. A small number of soldiers are going to do things like this in war, it's inevitable. And we'd be better than our enemies even if we pissed on Korans, because they behead their prisoners and painfully might I add.
What happened here is the Whitehouse shot themselves in the foot. By public repudiating the Newsweek story, they staked their reputation on the story being wrong. It was never beyond the realm of possibility that one soldier could have pissed on a Koran.
Yea we see where being civilized is getting us lets try a little bit of old fashioned medieval justice on them for a change feed em pig ,forbid them the koran ,take away their prayer rugs,makem work their asses off busting up large granite rocks with small hammers.
And torture is OK in my book too ! if they infiltrate the United States as they plan to do thier will not be a bible or a church of any dinomination other than muslim that you can take to the bank !
Destroy your enemys do not make peace with your killer ! their will be a fight for life when life is all you have left !
I want you in charge of Homeland Security.
Common sense is in short supply in America these days.
When you try to please all those small-minded interest groups, you will end up pleasing nobody.
"Hood's inquiry identified 15 incidents in which detainees mishandled the Koran. These involved using it as a pillow, ripping pages from it, attempting to flush it down a toilet, and urinating on it.
Why aren't the Muslims and the MSM outraged about this and mad at the detainees?
Ummm...three-day-old Newbie, when CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, NY Times, Seattle Times, USA Today, Chicago Tribune, Time Magazine, Newsweek, the Nation etc. etc. etc. file reports on past/current abuse of Christian and Jewish symbols, churches, bibles etc. for every "Koran desecration" story then we'll see almost no errant soldiers "stooping to their level." This is NOT official policy. We've come to a point in time where the left employs/embraces total subjectivity to the detriment of objectiveness. So until we have some objective rationality from the left on most political issues then occasionaly we will have to fight fire with fire.
Outrage-and the usual MSM short attention span BUMP
Stories like this remind me to go fill my bladder.
No, we're not fighting gentlemen, but we should always behave by gentlemen, thats part of what being superior is.
When I go to a resturaunt, and some trashy server gets smart with me, I don't argue with them, I don't complain (even though I have every right too) because I understand that they can't help the way they are. I was raised better, I accept it, and I give them a tip anyway, with the hope that one day, they might try and improve themselves, and maybe when that day comes, they remember the example I set.
They couldn't kill 100 American soldiers in their dreams. They only went three for four in surprise hijack attempts against civilians.
Give them all very nice thorough trials. Any found to have been fighting out of uniform and/or hiding in the civilian population should be hanged or shot as spies. Send them back to their home towns in pine boxes.
Accomplishes quite a few objectives:
1.) Supports international law.
2.) Gets these vermin out of the neighborhoods they are trying to turn into battlefields.
3.) Sends a nice warm fuzzy message to the next Islamic recruits.
War is war. They want war give it to them. Our kindness is attracting their contempt.