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So much for "Bush the Dummy."
Washington Post ^ | 7 June 2005 | Howard Kurtz

Posted on 06/07/2005 5:55:10 AM PDT by carrier-aviator

From Howard Kurtz's column in The Washington Post (online), Politics Section, 7 June 2005.

"During last year's presidential campaign, John F. Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George W. Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences," the Boston Globe observes. "But newly released records show that Bush and Kerry had a virtually identical grade average at Yale University four decades ago. "In 1999, The New Yorker published a transcript indicating that Bush had received a cumulative score of 77 for his first three years at Yale and a roughly similar average under a non-numerical rating system during his senior year. "Kerry, who graduated two years before Bush, got a cumulative 76 for his four years, according to a transcript that Kerry sent to the Navy when he was applying for officer training school. He received four D's in his freshman year out of 10 courses, but improved his average in later years."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: gwb2004; kerry; kurtz

1 posted on 06/07/2005 5:55:10 AM PDT by carrier-aviator
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To: carrier-aviator

classic


2 posted on 06/07/2005 5:56:23 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: carrier-aviator


Also, Bush was the life of the party. He was THE MAN on campus. So basically, he was able to maintain decent grades and still have a good time.


3 posted on 06/07/2005 5:57:26 AM PDT by LauraleeBraswell (I will never again read another thing by Christopher Hitchens !)
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To: carrier-aviator
I guess it's news when the main stream press says it's news, huh?
4 posted on 06/07/2005 5:58:25 AM PDT by MaryFromMichigan
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To: carrier-aviator

It's merely an indication of Kerry's professors not being smart enough to discern his genious cloaked in nuance
/sarc


5 posted on 06/07/2005 6:01:35 AM PDT by DancesWithBolsheviks (Celebrate E Pluribus Unum)
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To: carrier-aviator


I'm loving the thread at Dummies Unlimited. Lots of "who cares" and "why is this coming out now" crap... even a couple - this has to be a lie because "everyone knows" Kerry already released all his Navy records!!!

LOL... that last one had me on the floor!


6 posted on 06/07/2005 6:03:38 AM PDT by golfboy (character is doing what is right, when no one is looking)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: carrier-aviator

I wonder what their grades would have been if liberal Yale didn't curve grades based on a student's "caring factor." I'll bet Kerry might have flunked out if he didn't "care" so much.


8 posted on 06/07/2005 6:05:23 AM PDT by laredo44 (Liberty is not the problem)
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To: golfboy
"why is this coming out now"

There is that question. The cynical among us would think that Hillary is tryng to help JFK decide if he wants to make a second run at the white house.

9 posted on 06/07/2005 6:07:44 AM PDT by not_apathetic_anymore
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To: not_apathetic_anymore

This has been posted 50 times already in the past 24 hours.


10 posted on 06/07/2005 6:09:34 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary
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To: not_apathetic_anymore

"coming out now" because Kerry is finally releasing his records. You think the Boston Rag favors Hillary over their home-boy, even if he IS an idiot?


11 posted on 06/07/2005 6:10:12 AM PDT by golfboy (character is doing what is right, when no one is looking)
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To: golfboy
1. Bush didn't do his own work..

Kerry did

This is an actual quote from the DU thread. The rest are more of the same.... My favorite is the one that claims President Bush got "Gentleman's C's" (given to him do to his legacy), but Kerry actually worked for his.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1528711

12 posted on 06/07/2005 6:11:11 AM PDT by codercpc
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To: MaryFromMichigan
"I guess it's news when the main stream press says it's news, huh?"

No, it's news when Hillary says it's news.

13 posted on 06/07/2005 6:12:03 AM PDT by Hatteras
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To: FrPR

It's at the end of page 5:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/03/05/BL2005040700999_5.html


14 posted on 06/07/2005 6:14:19 AM PDT by carrier-aviator
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: carrier-aviator

I have never doubted Bush's intelligence. Kerry's and Gore's, on the other hand . . .


16 posted on 06/07/2005 6:28:39 AM PDT by Old Grumpy
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To: carrier-aviator

Bush got higher SAT scores then Kerry


17 posted on 06/07/2005 6:32:16 AM PDT by Vision (When Hillary Says She's Going To Put The Military On Our Borders...She Becomes Our Next President)
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To: finnman69

I just left the DUmmies website where I had gone to see what they are saying about this story. Of course, tye posts there are all dismissing it as lies or unimportant. LOL


18 posted on 06/07/2005 6:33:01 AM PDT by commonasdirt (Reading DU so you won't hafta)
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To: carrier-aviator
A story of two men at Yale...

While Kerry avoided the work involved in organizing and participating in debates, Bush did the physically demanding work of playing rugby and leading cheers.

Kerry, the "Great Debater," certainly knew how to let others do the work for him.

He even changed the Yale debating society (Political Union) into a lecture society.

The Rise and Fall of the Political Union

It was under of one of these distinguished men, however, that the Political Union began its slow decline, which continues even to this day.

As president, Kerry officially extinguished debate during the 1960s, transforming the Union into a lecture series.

This occurred in the midst of much turmoil on campus and in the nation, during a time of heightened political liberalism. The direct result of Kerry’s decision was a shift in the focus of members from the Union to their individual parties. He dealt the Union a blow from which she has yet to recover.

Since the 1960s membership and participation has steadily declined. From a membership of over 1000, the Union has dwindled to around 150.Although there is student debate at meetings today, the Union is for all practical purposes still a lecture series.


19 posted on 06/07/2005 6:40:08 AM PDT by syriacus (MSM isn't idolizing Felt 100%. They must be afraid that some Liberal rocks will be turned over.)
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To: golfboy; PJ-Comix
I think it was posted by a "lousy Freeper Troll" as satire :-)
20 posted on 06/07/2005 6:40:22 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (never surrender, this is for the kids)
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To: carrier-aviator; All
OMG LOOK at this pic of Lurch and contrast w/W. DORK!

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student/

Yale grades portray Kerry as a lackluster student His 4-year average on par with Bush's

By Michael Kranish, Globe Staff | June 7, 2005

WASHINGTON -- During last year's presidential campaign, John F. Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George W. Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences.

But newly released records show that Bush and Kerry had a virtually identical grade average at Yale University four decades ago.

In 1999, The New Yorker published a transcript indicating that Bush had received a cumulative score of 77 for his first three years at Yale and a roughly similar average under a non-numerical rating system during his senior year.

Kerry, who graduated two years before Bush, got a cumulative 76 for his four years, according to a transcript that Kerry sent to the Navy when he was applying for officer training school. He received four D's in his freshman year out of 10 courses, but improved his average in later years.

The grade transcript, which Kerry has always declined to release, was included in his Navy record. During the campaign the Globe sought Kerry's naval records, but he refused to waive privacy restrictions for the full file. Late last month, Kerry gave the Navy permission to send the documents to the Globe.

Kerry appeared to be responding to critics who suspected that there might be damaging information in the file about his activities in Vietnam. The military and medical records, however, appear identical to what Kerry has already released. This marks the first time Kerry's grades have been publicly reported.

The transcript shows that Kerry's freshman-year average was 71. He scored a 61 in geology, a 63 and 68 in two history classes, and a 69 in political science. His top score was a 79, in another political science course. Another of his strongest efforts, a 77, came in French class.

Under Yale's grading system in effect at the time, grades between 90 and 100 equaled an A, 80-89 a B, 70-79 a C, 60 to 69 a D, and anything below that was a failing grade. In addition to Kerry's four D's in his freshman year, he received one D in his sophomore year. He did not fail any courses.

''I always told my Dad that D stood for distinction," Kerry said yesterday in a written response to questions, noting that he has previously acknowledged that he spent a lot of time learning to fly instead of focusing on his studies.

Kerry's weak grades came despite years of education at some of the world's most elite prep schools, ranging from Fessenden School in Massachusetts to St. Paul's School in New Hampshire.

It is noteworthy, however, that Kerry received a high honor at Yale despite his mediocre grades: He was chosen to deliver his senior class oration, a testament to his reputation as a public speaker. He delivered a speech questioning the wisdom of the Vietnam War, in which he would soon see combat.

Kerry gradually improved his grades, averaging 81 in his senior year. His highest single grade was an 89, for a political science class in his senior year. Despite his slow start, he went on to be a top student at Naval Candidate School, command a patrol boat in Vietnam, graduate from law school, and become a prosecutor, lieutenant governor, US senator, and presidential candidate.

In his Navy application, Kerry made clear that he spent much of his college time on extracurricular activities, including the Yale Political Union, the Debating Association, soccer, hockey, fencing, and membership in the elite Skull and Bones Society. Asked to describe nonschool training that qualified him for the Navy, Kerry wrote: ''A great deal of sailing -- ocean and otherwise, including some navigation. Scuba diving. Rifle. Beginning of life saving." He said his special interests were ''filming," writing, and politics, noting that the latter subject occupied 15 hours per week.

Gaddis Smith, a retired Yale history professor who taught both Kerry and Bush, said in a telephone interview that he vividly remembers Kerry as a student during the 1964-1965 school year, when Kerry would have been a junior. However, Smith said he doesn't have a specific memory about Bush.

Based on what Smith recalls teaching that year, Kerry scored a 71 and 79 in two of Smith's courses. When Smith was told those scores, he responded: ''Uh, oh. I thought he was good student. Those aren't very good grades." To put the grades in perspective, Smith said that he had a well-earned reputation for being tough, and noted that such grades would probably be about 10 points higher in a similar class today because of the impact of what he called ''grade inflation."

Bush went to Yale from 1964 to 1968; his highest grades were 88s in anthropology, history, and philosophy, according to The New Yorker article. He received one D in his four years, a 69 in astronomy. Bush has said he was a C student.

Like Kerry, Bush reportedly suffered through a difficult freshman year and then pulled his grades up.

21 posted on 06/07/2005 6:41:45 AM PDT by finnman69 (cum puella incedit minore medio corpore sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos)
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To: codercpc
I guess they never heard of Kerry's middle name; Forbes

I know, you thought it was F'n

22 posted on 06/07/2005 6:41:49 AM PDT by FreeAtlanta (never surrender, this is for the kids)
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To: codercpc

If Bush didn't do his own work, why did he only get 77? The ideas is, if you can parlay wealth, influence and privilege into better grades than you actually earned, then why settle for only 77???? DUHHH!!!


23 posted on 06/07/2005 6:49:33 AM PDT by SMARTY
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To: FreeAtlanta
Interesting update. I read on Michelle Malkin's website that the author of this Boston Globe piece is the same guy who authored Kerry's glowing biography. And the Navy is previously on record that they had over 100 pages of documents that they couldn't release without Kerry's approval. I wonder if the globe actually received all those pages???

Me thinks that the grades are only the tip of the iceberg. Senator Kerry, release ALL the records!
24 posted on 06/07/2005 6:52:12 AM PDT by golfboy (character is doing what is right, when no one is looking)
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To: carrier-aviator

the democrats do this to inspire their own not-so-intelligent deaniac followers at universities. these radicals do not follow the issues but only need to emote that they are more "intelligent" than the republicans.


25 posted on 06/07/2005 6:53:11 AM PDT by ken21 (if you didn't see it on tv, then it didn't happen. /s)
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To: syriacus
The Yale Political Union was never intended to be either a "debating society" nor a "lecture series." I was an officer of the Union when John Kerry showed up for his first debate.

We had four political parties, then, the Party of the Left, the Liberals, the Conservatives, and the Party of the Right. Before each monthly meeting, the Board of Directors would put before all four parties a proposition on which they would take a position. Then, it would invite a leading national speaker on that subject, and the parties would choose two debaters each for an Oxford-style debate on that subject.

The point of all this was not mere words. Instead, it was to get the House to vote in favor of your position at the end of the evening. The Union then was roughly divided in half between liberal and conservative, with the two largest parties being the Liberals and the Conservatives.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column: "60 Million Frenchmen Can't be Wrong"

26 posted on 06/07/2005 6:53:39 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (For copies of my speech, "Dealing with Outlaw Judges," please Freepmail me.)
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To: syriacus
The Yale Political Union was never intended to be either a "debating society" nor a "lecture series." I was an officer of the Union when John Kerry showed up for his first debate.

We had four political parties, then, the Party of the Left, the Liberals, the Conservatives, and the Party of the Right. Before each monthly meeting, the Board of Directors would put before all four parties a proposition on which they would take a position. Then, it would invite a leading national speaker on that subject, and the parties would choose two debaters each for an Oxford-style debate on that subject.

The point of all this was not mere words. Instead, it was to get the House to vote in favor of your position at the end of the evening. The Union then was roughly divided in half between liberal and conservative, with the two largest parties being the Liberals and the Conservatives.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column: "60 Million Frenchmen Can't be Wrong"

27 posted on 06/07/2005 6:55:01 AM PDT by Congressman Billybob (For copies of my speech, "Dealing with Outlaw Judges," please Freepmail me.)
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To: finnman69
Another of [Kerry's] strongest efforts, a 77, came in French class.

???How can a Frenchman end up with a 77 in a French course???

I know. I know...it was a very advanced course.

28 posted on 06/07/2005 7:00:49 AM PDT by syriacus (MSM isn't idolizing Felt 100%. They must be afraid that some Liberal rocks will be turned over.)
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To: syriacus

Witch C averages it makes you wonder how either of these two got into graduate schools / law schools. Or were standards different back then?


29 posted on 06/07/2005 7:04:57 AM PDT by monkapotamus
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To: carrier-aviator

I think we've already covered this in sufficient detail before you joined. Time to MOVE ON!


30 posted on 06/07/2005 7:06:08 AM PDT by johnb838 ((thanks to those of you that post articles for me, the lowly commentator))
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To: Congressman Billybob
The Yale Political Union was never intended to be either a "debating society" nor a "lecture series."

Thanks for the information about the lecturers already having been invited to the Union.

I must have misunderstood the article, (which was from the Yale website), which seemed to say Kerry extinguished debate.

As president, Kerry officially extinguished debate during the 1960s, transforming the Union into a lecture series.

31 posted on 06/07/2005 7:13:43 AM PDT by syriacus (MSM isn't idolizing Felt 100%. They must be afraid that some Liberal rocks will be turned over.)
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To: carrier-aviator

and, what word on Ms Hillary's trancript and senior thesis? isn't it about time for those to be released?


32 posted on 06/07/2005 7:33:31 AM PDT by avital2
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To: carrier-aviator
Fox News, just now, reported this story - that Bush and Kerry's transcripts at Yale were similar.
...mentioned the 4 D's that Kerry got.
33 posted on 06/07/2005 7:37:54 AM PDT by syriacus (MSM isn't idolizing Felt 100%. They must be afraid that some Liberal rocks will be turned over.)
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To: finnman69

Holy cr*p! Kerry looks AWFUL. And what's with his hair . . . ??? It looks like a godawful combover plastered down with an entire bottle of brilliante.


34 posted on 06/07/2005 7:38:00 AM PDT by gop_gene
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To: carrier-aviator

In defense of both Kerry and Bush, some people have a hard enough time maintaining a 77 in any college, let alone an Ivy-League. Furthermore, wasn't the head of FedEx the gentleman who received a C on his term paper (at Yale, I believe) theorizing the validity of the next-day-small-parcel delivery service? I dunno, doesn't seem that getting a 77 is all *that* bad.


35 posted on 06/07/2005 7:38:48 AM PDT by NASBWI
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To: carrier-aviator

So much for "Bush the Dummy?" Hey Howie, you and the rest of the lamestream media are the ones who have been trying to convince us that Lurch, algore, and the Hildebeast are the three greatest geniuses in America today, when I am quite certain you have known better all along.


36 posted on 06/07/2005 8:36:30 AM PDT by Cecily
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To: finnman69

College Democrats

37 posted on 06/07/2005 8:47:35 AM PDT by Rise of South Park Republicans (The Founding Fathers wanted disagreements as long as we all agree America kicks as* - Eric Cartman)
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To: Vision

"Bush got higher SAT scores than Kerry"


And Bush's SATs were also higher than Gore. While Gore did finish Yale, Gore flunked out of law school and was kicked out of divinity school - because of his marijuana use.

So .. parents .. if you don't want your children to end up a nut case like Gore - don't let them smoke mairjuana now. Just a thought.


38 posted on 06/07/2005 10:05:27 AM PDT by CyberAnt (President Bush: "America is the greatest nation on the face of the earth")
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