Posted on 06/09/2005 6:40:47 AM PDT by jasoncann
Oregon satellite road tax pilot begins this fall. UK announces plans for nationwide program.
Transportation officials in the US and UK are both moving toward a satellite-based tax on driving designed to encourage people to give up their cars and embrace public transportation. Under the plans, the current gas tax would be reduced or replaced in favor of a system where satellites would monitor the driving of individuals and charge more for those driving in popular locations at popular times. Under the British plan, motorists would be charged up to £1.34 (US $2.44) for each mile driven.
This fall, the Oregon Department of Transportation will implement a federally funded road tax pilot project. Twenty vehicles equipped with a GPS receiver will fill up at one of two special gas stations that download mileage information from the GPS device, charge the road tax and refund the amount of the gas tax automatically. Initially, the special black box will not record location data, just total mileage in-state and out-of-state, with the latter mileage being tax-free. Oregon hopes to expand the pilot to 280 vehicles by spring 2006. The $2.9 million pilot program is almost entirely funded by the Federal Highway Administration.
On Sunday, UK Transport Secretary Alistair Darling introduced his proposal for a similar nationwide road tax plan on Sunday. His proposal would add built-in "congestion pricing" by recording the places and times of travel. He wants a pilot program running in West Midlands or Greater Manchester within two years.
The gas tax is the main source for automobile taxation in both the US and UK. Although the US gas tax was initially designed to be a use tax to fund road maintenance and construction, about half of the money is diverted to other purposes. The amount of the tax in the UK has skyrocketed, accounting for 75 percent of the cost of gas and combined with other motorist taxes comprises 11 percent of the government's tax revenue.
Soylent Green is...PEOPLE!
$2.44/mile? Unbelievable! They are going to get a revolution if they try that.
I have news for 'em: any such tracking system will be immediately removed from my vehicle. Period.
Nothing like having the government able to monitor where you go.
This would really go over great in farm country where you havc to drive many miles just to go get grocery's.
Is this country TRYING to start a class war?
Scary that Oregon and the FHA are spending ANY money on this project.
"$2.44/mile? Unbelievable! They are going to get a revolution if they try that."
Nope. They'll tell the sheeple that they get the gas tax back, it's a wash. It only affects rich people. And if people crab too much, they'll cut it back to $1.95 and everyone will accept it.
"$2.44/mile? Unbelievable!"
I wonder how this fits in with the UN's agenda21? They want to create cities where people don't have cars and can't go anywhere. This tax certainly would be a big start for that.
The other thing about this proposal is that it's an incredible waste of resources. The gas tax already achieves the goals here--the more miles you drive, the more gas tax you pay. The gas tax even encourages fuel efficiency--the less fuel efficient your vehicle, the more gas tax you pay.
If they need more revenue, just raise the danged gas tax. Yes, I know, they're talking about alternative fuels in the future that won't be subject to the gas tax. Tax those too and that problem's solved.
I'd much rather pay more in gas tax than to sacrifice my right to privacy.
Like here in Colorado, where if you want a decent house you have to drive 30 miles to work or pay 300k for some POS near work.
Initially, the special black box will not record location dataThe very reason that liberals, bureaucrats, and other crypto-fascists are so enthusiastic about public transportation is the fact that, as any parent of teenagers knows, it's far tougher to control people who can go where they want when they want.Nothing like having the government able to monitor where you go.
This proposal, especially the $2.44 a mile part, begins to fall into the "forbidden by the Second Amendment" category.
-Eric
I don't think so.
This country is quickly filling with pi$$ed off Americans. They push this through, and I see a revolt in this country's future. There is a thin line between freedom and tyranny.
Those are really two great choices. Not!
They ought to just drop this idea, and keep the gasoline taxes, since the latter are not as intrusive on one's privacy.
So every couple of days I drive a Geo Metro to the gas station, fill up, drive home and offload the tank of gas into my minivan. Problem solved.
We live in a rural area. Right now my husband drives on an average of a hundred miles a day. If that tax passes...he's quiting and we're going on the government teat.
Only the rich will be able to drive. It ain't gonna wash.
That just won't do, because they are trying to engage in some social engineering to stop people from driving. So, they figure if they tax the miles directly, you can't circumvent that.
I personally live in the country. I'm the target for this. The central planners don't want me here. They want to make a national park/reserve out of the whole country outside cities.
But, there will no doubt be an exception made for illegal aliens.
Amen to that... I drive over 30,000 miles per year for work.
I wonder how this fits in with the UN's agenda21? They want to create cities where people don't have cars and can't go anywhere. This tax certainly would be a big start for that.
+++
Bingo!
"$2.44/mile? Unbelievable! They are going to get a revolution if they try that."
Or said another way:
Average vehicle use per year: 12,000 miles (or so)
Average tax per year: $29,280 (or about what we paid for our Suburban)
So do we start dumping gas into the ocean off the coast of Oregon (ala Portland Tea Party)
The $2.44 is the planned tax amount for central London. This is an IDIOTIC idea, but it won't be nearly that bad outside of the city.
Same here. Or I'll zap it with the defibrillator at work to zorch the electronics and then call it an "equipment malfunction".
LQ
The Constitution says this can't happen.
A person takes a minimum wage job 6.00/hr.
Lives 30 miles from that job for economic reasons.
8hr. x 6.00/hr. = $48.00 / day.
2 x 30 X $2.44 = $146.40 / day.
Should the person keep the job?
What a dumb statement for liberals to make huh?
We have turned robbing Peter to pay Paul into an art. Everytime I hear them say that I sigh and roll my eyes.
I despise these scum sucking dirt bags who want to tax everything. Taxes anger me anyway, but I can't think of any tax that angers me like this one. I wonder what the sheople are saying about it?
We already pay in Colorado a 47 cent per gallon tax, or about 3 cents per mile. Going to $2.44 per mile tax means a relative gas cost of $36 per gallon of gas. Revolt would ensue.
This part of Agenda 21.
I'm glad you brought it up. Too many people sneer at it and tell us to get out our tin foil hats. It's becoming a reality.
And we can thank the UN.
somebody better tell the people
Ha! That's a good one.
Heaven forbid you plan a long distance vacation. A round-trip from Michigan to Florida could cost you nearly $4,000 in mileage taxes(at $2.44 per mile).
Yikes!
For business we drove 6,800 miles during the last three weeks to check on our employees throughout the Midwest and West.
Greyhound doesn't go where they are, the airlines would require us to rent cars and then drive many additional miles and the trains are a joke.
Each year, we drive almost 80K on business. Guess we could retire and put 550 people on the government dole and forget about paying income taxes, let alone gas taxes.
Of course, we buy a new automobile every six months or so so that would cause auto sales to drop also. Last year, our companies purchased 75 vehicles of all types and I guess that is about average.
If this passes into law, we will retire and move to our home outside the USA. And I know many others who are of a like mind.
Sarbanes-Oxley has cost us almost $250K in additional accounting costs this year and that is right out of our pocket . . . and for what! We are in the process of taking our company private . . . so there goes our employees stock-option and pension plans.
The jokers in Washington have never had a payroll to meet and have no clue about what it takes to build a successful business.
Not in England. They already charge large fees for driving in London and no one is really too upset except for business establishments in the city and they don't count in a socialist state.
London businesses are complaining about a slowdown as a result but govt isn't listening. After all, reducing congestion in London wasn't the purpose of the tax anyway. The tax revenue was the purpose of the tax.
Fuel smuggling will become rampant. The devices will get hacked and faked out. Bribes to the fuel station attendants will be constant.
Stupidest idea ever.
That's the whole issue. With more people in Oregon being environmentally concious, they are driving more and more hybrids. That means less fuel is being used and that means less gas tax is being paid. THe government is threatened by loss of revenue from fuel efficient vehicles. The solution is to punish the owners. It won't even wash becasue hybrid car drivers buy less gas so they pay less gas tax, but now will pay more than the gas tak because of the efficientcy of their vehicles. If you can deduct the gas take from the mileage tax, then you would want the biggest gas guzzler you can afford.
"This country is quickly filling with pi$$ed off Americans. They push this through, and I see a revolt in this country's future. There is a thin line between freedom and tyranny."
I couldn't disagree more. In Ohio, no one wanted emissions testing for cars, except politicians. Guess what? We got e check. They told us it's good for us. Politicians got rich, we got hosed, and no one did a thing.
As long as people have food, have toys and can watch desperate housewives, they'll deal with the annoyance. Revolt is a strong thing, and much is put at risk in a revolt. People who don't know who their elected officials are, and are ignorant of the political process are not likely to revolt.
Liberals kill whatever they touch. I shudder to think what it will be like in 30 years.
1. Nobody can afford to go to work.
2. People leaving for third world countries just for some economic freedom.
3. Civilized nations taxed to a standstill while China is getting ready to turn on the butt kicking machine.
Just how much more are we going to accept before we're forced into a tax revolt? The burden on our families is already rediculously high.
With this garbage, they're dictating to me where I can live and what I can drive. So much for the "land of the free". Where's our modern day Thomas Jeffersons, Patrick Henrys and Samuel Adams when we need them? Instead, we get pant-suit chasing RHINO's, like Ken Sikkema, who collaborate on raising our taxes instead of standing against such usery!
I forgot to at add the /sarcasm tag =D
Pass this and it's tar and feathers time. I've had it with taxes, and freakin government stealing all my damn money and spending billions all kinds of crap they've got no business with in the first place. It's getting very close to can't take any more time.
It is patently obvious that the liberals can't think, and believe that nothing is connected. I drive 140 or more miles per day to work at a good-paying job. Now, they would want me to move close enough to that job to make it possible for me to park my car, and take public transportation. Were I to do such a thing, the cost of housing and such would be triple what I'm paying now. Not to mention the greatly increased exposure to crime, and potential loss of possessions and life. I might save the per-mile tax, but I would lose more than I would save. Much more. Not to mention that, parked or not, I still have to pay for the car.
I'm with the guy who said he'd fry the chip. Americans will never give up their freedom of movement. Something like this will make militants out of even the most passive of Americans.
I don't think so. Every little thing this government does adds another straw to the camels back.
This mileage tax will cause millions of Americans their livelihoods, my husbands included. We will then become a socialist country. Who would work when their mileage tax would be more than their paycheck?
Your problem sounds regional, this would be nation wide.
The GOP grass roots needs to revolt and unelect just about everyone in the primaries this year, either that or vote third party. The Bush GOP sucks and I want no part of it.
It is 16 miles on the nose from my driveway to work. Thats 32 miles a day if I only drive to and from work. Any politician that thinks a tax of $78.08 A DAY to go to work (much more for many others) will likely find himself at the end of the rope.
IMHO, this isn’t about taxation, but about surveillance. Putting GPS transmitters in every car seems like a horribly inefficient stream of revenue when compared to traditional gasoline taxes. The ramifications of such a system would be huge. It would be the death of privacy.
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