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Posted on 06/10/2005 4:17:36 PM PDT by freepatriot32
CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas Medical tests today showed that cancer has returned to a 12-year-old girl whose parents were in court to fight radiation treatment because they believed her illness was in remission.
The new tests were revealed by state attorneys during a hearing that was supposed to determine whether treatment for Katie Wernecke was necessary in the days leading up to a custody hearing next Wednesday.
Texas Child Protective Services removed the girl and her siblings from the home of Michele and Edward Wernecke last week after doctors said discontinued treatment could be life-threatening.
Katie was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Disease in January, when her parents brought her to the hospital for pneumonia treatment.
The parents had insisted the four rounds of chemotherapy Katie received killed the cancer and that the recommended radiation therapy would only harm a healthy girl.
But Friday's results, "changes everything," said Daniel Horne, an attorney for the parents.
The judge decided that the girl, who was not present for the hearing, would remain in state custody.
He recommended that the girl's treatment begin tomorrow, her 13th birthday. The judge did not immediately address how involved he would let the parents be.
Libertarian ping.To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here
This is one of those no-win situations. At first I was angry at the parents, but God, what they must be going through.
Ping-a-roo. Remember the thread a couple of days ago about the child whose parents were trying to withold treatment they said she didn't need?
I guess the parents have to admit now that they didn't know more than the doctors.
At first I was angry at the parents, but God, what they must be going through.
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Angry at the parents? When the government steals their children from them in order to impose what they believe is the right treatment. You cannot get any closer to Tyranny than that!
SHE NEEDS HER MOM ALL THE MORE!!!!!!!!!!!
She'd already been diagnosed with cancer, fortunately of a well understood variety, with a prescribed course of treatment with a good success record.
No doctor had said she was free of cancer when this happened.
Children have a right to not be killed by their parents, Roe v. Wade to the contrary.
It really bothers me a lot when people refer to other human beings as merely property, or part of their own bodies.
This morning on the news the father said with the radiation treatments it would do damage to her spine's ability to grow and therefore his daughter "would stay short". It seemed like he was saying this was a factor in why they didn't want her to have more treatments. No doubt, having a sick child is the worst. It's an enormous strain on a family.
Short girls are a problem for some people.
It's tougher decision that what you see, IMHO.
I would want the decision on whether to do chemo and radiation myself. These are not guaranteed cures, often they prolong life with great suffering in ever shortening intervals.
My mother got off this train; and after watching her go through it, if I have the choice, I will likely get off sooner than she.
Court ordered medical treatment - particularly for cancer - is offensive on its surface. There are some obvious exceptions, but I'd be careful to limit these.
Ummmm.....It was the right treatment.
Even the parent's lawyer now admits that:
"But Friday's results, "changes everything," said Daniel Horne, an attorney for the parents."
With treatment, Hodgkin's Disease has a very high cure rate of over 90% in the early stages and even has a 70% to 80% cure rate in Stage III disease.
Without treatment, the death rate is 100%.
The parents originally claimed that the child was completely disease free without any data to back up that claim. As it is, even the parents and their lawyer now admit that the parents were wrong.
If the State had not intervened, that child would be a "dead kid walking" right now.
These folks also cite the same Bible verses the Apostolic Charismatic Church of the First Born cites to justify shamanism and use of peyote.
I never, ever trust these guys to do anything but let their kids die and then bury them in secret graves.
Sure, but better short and healthy.
My hometown has enough dwarves that if you stand in one place out front of the Walmart for under an hour you will see at least 3 of them.
The local Autozone sells pedal extenders!
I think it was my Great Uncle who settled a bunch of people in his circus in this area.
"Short girls are a problem for some people."
Oh, so wrong. We're practically perfect and not a problem for anyone.
We had a Texan father who wanted a "tall girl", not a "short girl", and he was prepared to deny her life preserving radiation treatment to get that condition.
Yet this child should receive the radiation treatment. Lymphoma has a high cure rate if they would follow accepted treatment plans.
What is fundamentally wrong with the government directing people to the correct medical treatment?
Better 5'1'' than six feet under.
Weird.
Is it possible to be very glad that the child is going to get treatment, yet still be very, very squicked at the thought of the government mandating our medical treatment and health care?
Yeah, I guess it would be better all around to just let her die.
Fundamentally the only argument that could possibly be made with respect to a liberty interest external to the young girl herself would be the right of parents to kill their kids.
Are you kinda' trying to creep around and do that sort of argument?
I'm sorry about your mother. Fortunately for this girl childhood Hodgkin's has an excellent prognosis with proper treatment, while it is terminal without treatment.
It has a very high "cure" rate.
Yet this child should receive the radiation treatment. Lymphoma has a high cure rate if they would follow accepted treatment plans.
For some cancers, unfortunately, there is no "right" answer as even the most aggressive therapy may do little to save the life.
In other cancers, however, such as Hodgkin's Disease, the cure rates are so high with appropriate treatment that denying such treatment is as murderous as denying a child surgery for appendicitis or antibiotics for pneumonia.
No, there's a big distinction when a kid is involved. You, as an adult, can refuse medical treatment. But when an irrational parent is making that decision for you, then it's not your decision. Who's going to step in? In this case a judge.
It's not a perfect solution. The perfect solution would be for the parents to not be irrational.
It was my understanding that the doctors and parents agreed that the child was in remission. Seems the doctors had the child in a test program, some patients with chemo and radiation treatments vs. just chemo treatments. The girl was part of a study program, and the medical profession didn't want their results skewed by over zealous parents.
Ping! I thought you might be interested in the new development. So much for the parents' announcement that they just knew their daughter was in remission.
Ok. Would it be okay for the government to say, "Hey, she's not going to get better, stop the treatment?"
That doesn't mean such things don't go on. We had the problem with the syphilis patients in Alabama, and the military regularly conducted such tests with dependents.
No, not unless the government wasn't paying for that treatment.
Dead girls are an even bigger problem. The parents not treating her constitutes abuse. The state did the right thing here.
The diseases where you have lots of "options" are the diseases that do not yet have very effective treatments and one treatment is just as good as the other.
For the really bad diseases, your M.D. won't even argue with you if you tell him you want to go to Mexico to have coffee enema treatments. It won't matter in the end. Whatever floats your boat is the "right" thing to do.
With other diseases, certain therapies are so successful that denying such therapy would be tantamount to murder if you deny that treatment to others.
If you want to treat your own appendicitis with acupuncture, you are perfectly free to do so. The Government has no qualms about allowing an adult to earn a Darwin Award.
However, if you intend to treat your child's appendicitis with acupuncture, the Government will step in and not allow you to murder your child.
Oops, WAS paying for that treatment.
Coffee enema is the treatment of choice for so terribly many things.
The girl was part of a study program, and the medical profession didn't want their results skewed by over zealous parents.
Well, it's pretty plain that this wasn't the complete truth, or the cancer would not have recurred so soon.
It's always amazed me how some folks are so distrustful of doctors. Yet when they are ill, they are first in line at the doctor's office, wanting as much to be done as possible for them. Individuals who want to impugn every motive of every health professional should rather see a voodoo priestess when they are ill.
Children are wards, not property.
My worry here is that the government steps into medical care constantly to kill people--I mean, let them die in a euphoric manner. I have a real fear about letting the government decide anything about medicine.
Having said that--I am relieved that the child is being treated. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to control what the govt. controls about us.
Whoops. Make that "Some tests are more sensitive than others." Specificity and sensitivity are totally different. My bad for not proofreading.
The problem with "US" is we do need to be kept an eye on.
Some think it is normal to be taking recreational illegal drugs in the name of the contstitution.
Others might think it's OK to kill the neighbor's pets and to BBQ them for dinner.
I'm sorry to say there are some wierdos among us, plus many are not blessed with the gift of common sense.
So, for those lacking, lots of laws exist.
In the case of kids, they are protected over the parents if they are shown to be in danger by the parents.
If a guardian is home getting drunk while kids are in the house and children's services finds out, you are going to lose the kids unless there is a sober parent there the same time to protect the kids.
There is a balance and I think what we all want is to not have the balance turn into the government dictating to us how to live in general, which is reasonable.
Having said that--I am relieved that the child is being treated. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to control what the govt. controls about us.
The cases where Government steps in are usually:
1. When a child is involved.
2. When the "right choice" for the child is pretty clear cut.
As noted in my other post, treating a child with appendicitis with acupuncture would be such a case.
Adults, on the other hand, are given free reign to commit suicide if they so desire.
I have seen it many times in my own radiology practice in this West Coast community filled with New Agers that believe in crystals and karma.
The real tragedies are not the ones that die believing they will be cured by their "alternative therapies". The real tragedies are those that had potentially curable cancers, drop out of their oncology treatments to go to Mexico or some New Age commune in California to get herbs and spices infused up their rectums and then return several months later with an incurable tumor the size of a football realizing that they have committed suicide.
Government allows adults to do such things to themselves.
Government does not allows adults to do such things to their children.
Uh, yeah, I'd say some of US do need to be kept an eye on.
"Short girls are a problem for some people."
Short people got no reason...
Wish someone would post a picture so I could see if their teeth are falling out from peyote use yet.
It's possible they are in the first stages of breaking with their church, and the Elders who prefer to lay hands on you than to let you see a doctor.
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