Skip to comments.1964 STB Report on Vaclav Havel (Havel a Communist Collaborator?)
Posted on 06/12/2005 11:50:04 AM PDT by BringBackMyHUAC
Based on what you'll read in this report, we can clearly establish that not only Havel was privileged to receive certain favors from the communists [his frequent visits of the capitalist West Germany, Austria and so forth - ordinary people would not be allowed to travel there during the openly communist era], but also Havel was glad to co-operate with these communist criminals...
(Excerpt) Read more at anti-communistanalyst.com ...
That probably goes double for Eastern Europe.
==That probably goes double for Eastern Europe.
There are millions of pure, unadulterated, non-collaborationist victims of Communist oppression in Russia and Eastern Europe. That is where the leaders of "post"-Communist Russia and Eastern Europe would be drawn from if Communism really "collapsed".
I was just on a Russian National Bolshevik Party site where they were protesting Putin's repression of their 'great ideology'.
Of course, it doesn't have to be communism-socialism-bolshevism to upset our applecart, or kill millions of Elbonians. Imperial Russia was pretty good at that, though nowhere as efficient as the commies.
The underground Russian poet Guberman has a neat philosophy on Russia:
==I was just on a Russian National Bolshevik Party site where they were protesting Putin's repression of their 'great ideology'.
Something to keep in mind when considering whether to take Communist demonstrations at face value:
Full link below:
...Before we can understand the Communist role in strategic deception and terrorist warfare, we must answer one critical question: What is Communism?...Karl Marx and V.I. Lenin are widely known as the founders of Communism. However, not everyone who professes the ideology of Marx and Lenin is a true Communist. Lenin himself defined Communism as an international organization, akin to the Mafia, whose members would constitute an elite corps of professional revolutionaries. As he described it in 1902, "In form such a strong revolutionary organization in an autocratic country may also be described as a 'conspiratorial' organization... such an organization must have the utmost secrecy." Shortly after seizing control of Russia in 1917, Lenin revealed the secret of Communist success in a booklet, declaring that "The Bolsheviks could not have maintained themselves in power... unless the strictest, truly iron discipline prevailed in our Party." Naive believers in Marxist ideology are constantly purged from the Party, for the organization can rely only on those people blindly willing to obey orders. Communism explicitly disavows all moral rules, and its members must constantly shift tactics, sometimes even carry out seemingly anti-Marxist actions, as its leadership adapts the revolution to changing circumstances. Thus Communists possess the fanatic discipline needed to carry out deception on a scale beyond the imagination of most outsiders, including staging their own alleged "collapse."
My response is already contained in post #4. I'm not talking about purging every single person who worked for the Communists, because that would (by definition) be everybody to one extent or another. I'm simply saying that the Communist elite need to be completely purged once and for all. What percentage of the population would such a purge represent?...Surely a fraction of one percent, no???
I mean C'mon, Gslob. You lived under Communism once. Wouldn't you like to see some of these inhuman scum brought to justice?
==Ideology is all about the "tuning up" the brains in such a way that ideologized individual would automatically exhibit the desired behavior in socially important situations - essentially, it is a Pavlovian conditioning as applied to the sphere of sociology.
I have a prior engagement that I must attend, otherwise I would love to engage you on this point. Suffice it to say, I think the Pavlovian effects of ideology support my point of view just as much as yours (if not more). I will be sure to pick up this thread when I return. As always, thanks for your thoughtful response (you too struwwelpeter). Until next time--HUAC.
See #12. It is not 1 but 25%, otherwise the communist edifice would have collapsed within first years of its existence if not earlier. And it existed, and was strong enough to withstand quite a stress load - thus its internal strength had to be significant.
Wake up America and vote the ba$tards out!
GSlob: Sorry I didn't see you post. I wasn't ignoring you.
Yes, it would be hard to find someone in the former Warsaw Pact without some history to him, or at least one qualified to run a country. Patton left mid- and lower-level Nazi bureaucrats keep the lights on, at least until a new generation of clerks could be trained. It may also be true in Iraq.
Leo: , that's very true. BTW: Ukrainians and Donbas Russians pronounce the 'g' in 'golod' as an 'h'. Where'd you pick that up?
==Kind of late in the day to be re-writing history with Havel as a bad guy.
It's never too late to rewrite history so long as it results in the truth (on any subject).
BTW, I'm not inventing this information, these are Czech nationals who are bringing this stuff to light (in English).
That was in Slovakian, they use both "G" and "H", no need to discriminate against letters :-)
What were you guys up to? I'm telling!
Huh? Not confusing Slovak with Slavic (Slavonic)?
I think it's called Lithic or Sith or something like that. Supposedly an endangered language, most closely related to Slovakian and Czech. By small language, I mean it only has 3 words. Their literature is limited, but at least you get out of Easter mass real fast.
==So what? We have a lot of American nationals who talk trash too.
They aren't talking trash. They are merely pointing out that the Communist elite was never brought to justice...and that Vaclav Havel cooperated with the STB. If they are wrong, then PROVE them wrong.
==The estimated percentage of Czechs working for the communists was 1 out of every 4 (!!!!) and in Slovakia it was 1 out of every 2 people (!!!).
You know better than I do. All I'm saying is that if Communism really "collapsed" than both Russians and Eastern Europeans would quite naturally want to bring the Communist elite to justice (which is a far lower number than 25 to 50% of the population). As someone else pointed out, there would be no point in going after librarians, plumbers and electricians (so to speak). We want (and they should want) the big fish, no?
After reading various history pieces on Havel, I think that it's very likely that he changed his mindset a lot between 1964 and his effort with "nonpolitical politics."
But at the same time, I know that even though Communism is partially stopped in government practice for a short time, making difficult changes to a culture in a large population is another matter. It's easy for a people to try something new with extremely idealistic expectations only to revert when things don't work out the way they'd hoped or as quickly as they'd wished.
Especially when 25 TO 50% of the population were working for the Communists in one capacity or another. As I mentioned above, I think the hardcore, committed Communists represent a far smaller number, probably 5-10%...and the number of elite Communists a smaller number still...but talk about a fifth column!!!! The upper echelons need to be purged and brought to justice, otherwise we are importing that very same fith column right into our own ranks (re: EU, NATO, etc).
You are correct in that there was no "collapse" of communism. It doesn't simply collapse, because it includes a cultural set of habits that are entrenched by long term patterns of popular thought. Here's a more likely analogy. The only kinds of religion that collapsed that I can recall were those involving increasing numbers of human sacrifices and those involving belief in strict celibacy on the part of every participant. And even they passed a thread of their beliefs to the present.
The best way to stop communism, IMO, would be to convince a communist society (by way of much convincing political speech) to give up all of the habits of thought that communism requires. That should take about 25 years, at least. That...from experience on my part at slowly eradicating a societal pathology from our own country. I started with a handful of other individuals and have been at it for about a decade. We've had some success, but we're only about halfway there.
The fact that he was not either brain damaged via personal bio / chem attack or outright murdered tells me he must have been on some sort of Communist "good" list. The use of false opposition is well known. Now, has he changed his ways since his presidency? The jury is still out on that score ...
Something I wonder about regarding the NBP .... I must wonder if they are not a vehicle actually being used by a certain quasi-National Socialist element (which may include Putin) to foment extremism in general. It sort of reminds me of accounts I've read of the early days of the SA. Now a key difference is that unlike Hitler at the time, Putin is already in power. But no matter, the same sort of dynamic may arise. A radicalizing force can steer public opinion and plant ideas. Ideas have consequences.
've wondered about the National Bolsheviks -vs- National Socialists myself.
They sound like Dean's core supporters.
ESSENCE OF NATIONAL-BOLSHEVISM
1. Essence of National-bolshevism is the incinerating hatred to antihuman SYSTEM of the trinity: liberalism / democracy / capitalism. The man of uprising, national-bolshevik sees his mission in destruction of SYSTEM up to the basis. On ideals spiritual courage, social and national justice the traditionalistic, hierarchical community will be constructed.
2. Foreign enemies of National-bolshevism: the large Satan - USA and mondialists of Europe, incorporated in NATO and UN. Internal enemies: a class of "jackets" - boyars - bureaucrats, marauders - "new Russian", cosmopolitan intelligentsia.
3. Global purpose of National-bolshevism is the creation of Empire from Vladivostok up to Gibraltar on the basis of Russian civilization. The purpose will be achieved in four stages: à) Transformation of Russian Federation into the national state Russia by Russian Revolution, b) Joining of the territories of former republics of the Soviet Union, inhabit by Russians c) Rallying around of Russians Eurasian nations of the former USSR. d) Creation of huge continental Empire.
4. Having come to power, NBP will make revolutionary on the scales of transformation in Russia, will construct the TOTAL STATE, the human rights will concede a place to the rights of a nation. Inside the country the iron Russian order, climate of discipline, bellicose and diligence will be established.nalization. 5 men work at the enterprise - it can be private (individual), 55 - should be collective, 555 - is in the property regional, 5555 - belongs to the state. In the transition period NBP establish economic dictatorship.
RNE - Russian National Unity
Russian National Union
I think Putin can keep them locked up for as long as he wants.
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