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1964 STB Report on Vaclav Havel (Havel a Communist Collaborator?)
| Honza Malina
Posted on 06/12/2005 11:50:04 AM PDT by BringBackMyHUAC
Based on what you'll read in this report, we can clearly establish that not only Havel was privileged to receive certain favors from the communists [his frequent visits of the capitalist West Germany, Austria and so forth - ordinary people would not be allowed to travel there during the openly communist era], but also Havel was glad to co-operate with these communist criminals...
(Excerpt) Read more at anti-communistanalyst.com ...
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: collaborator; communism; communist; czechoslovakia; czechrepublic; havel; pantload; stb; vaclavhavel
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More evidence that the death of Communism is a fraud. Also see post #2.
To: GOP_1900AD; Uncle George; mudblood; AnimalLover; hedgetrimmer; John Lenin; AnnaZ; zzen01; ...
Awhile back I was on vacation in Austria, and got into an argument with one of the locals about politics (Goesser bier is to blame). Somehow we got on the subject of their president - an former UN chief - Kurt Waldheim, who had suddenly been discovered to have been in the SS. The drunk made a pretty good point, something along the lines of: "You have to look pretty hard to find an old man in Europe without some
That probably goes double for Eastern Europe.
==That probably goes double for Eastern Europe.
There are millions of pure, unadulterated, non-collaborationist victims of Communist oppression in Russia and Eastern Europe. That is where the leaders of "post"-Communist Russia and Eastern Europe would be drawn from if Communism really "collapsed".
I think anyone who has lived or worked in Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union would find it hard to believe that the commies can put that Humpty Dumpty back together again.
I was just on a Russian National Bolshevik Party site where they were protesting Putin's repression of their 'great ideology'.
Of course, it doesn't have to be communism-socialism-bolshevism to upset our applecart, or kill millions of Elbonians. Imperial Russia was pretty good at that, though nowhere as efficient as the commies.
The underground Russian poet Guberman has a neat philosophy on Russia:
==I was just on a Russian National Bolshevik Party site where they were protesting Putin's repression of their 'great ideology'.
Something to keep in mind when considering whether to take Communist demonstrations at face value:
Full link below:
...Before we can understand the Communist role in strategic deception and terrorist warfare, we must answer one critical question: What is Communism?...Karl Marx and V.I. Lenin are widely known as the founders of Communism. However, not everyone who professes the ideology of Marx and Lenin is a true Communist. Lenin himself defined Communism as an international organization, akin to the Mafia, whose members would constitute an elite corps of professional revolutionaries. As he described it in 1902, "In form such a strong revolutionary organization in an autocratic country may also be described as a 'conspiratorial' organization... such an organization must have the utmost secrecy." Shortly after seizing control of Russia in 1917, Lenin revealed the secret of Communist success in a booklet, declaring that "The Bolsheviks could not have maintained themselves in power... unless the strictest, truly iron discipline prevailed in our Party." Naive believers in Marxist ideology are constantly purged from the Party, for the organization can rely only on those people blindly willing to obey orders. Communism explicitly disavows all moral rules, and its members must constantly shift tactics, sometimes even carry out seemingly anti-Marxist actions, as its leadership adapts the revolution to changing circumstances. Thus Communists possess the fanatic discipline needed to carry out deception on a scale beyond the imagination of most outsiders, including staging their own alleged "collapse."
To: BringBackMyHUAC; struwwelpeter
Lay off Havel. A commie would have attempted a Milosevic-style bloodbath, not a "velvet divorce".
Czechs, Poles, Hungarians and Balts are simply returning to the Western Civ [and Ukraine is trying to come there]. After decades [3.5 centuries for Ukraine] of sitting up to one's ears in "communality" or "Russity" shit [see my earlier FRmail for the terms] the smell is not that easy to wash off - it could be expected to linger. The state apparatus of a contemporary state is a large one, and to completely purge it from the commies would have required mass importation of Western civil servants, for almost everybody who is both socially active and above certain age would have one's roots in the old apparatus. There were only so many (or so few) anti-communist dissidents, like Havel - not enough to staff a state.
posted on 06/12/2005 12:33:18 PM PDT
Uvazhaemiy prepodavatel', you've already taken me to the woodshed over Havel... I wouldn't dare impugn his integrity again!
My response is already contained in post #4. I'm not talking about purging every single person who worked for the Communists, because that would (by definition) be everybody to one extent or another. I'm simply saying that the Communist elite need to be completely purged once and for all. What percentage of the population would such a purge represent?...Surely a fraction of one percent, no???
I mean C'mon, Gslob. You lived under Communism once. Wouldn't you like to see some of these inhuman scum brought to justice?
I was just expanding on your point in #2. And in Zinovievite analysis, the Russian National Bolshevik Party arguments about "repression of their great ideology" are like scholastic debates from the 13 century about how many angels could simultaneousy dance on the tip of the needle.
Ideology is all about the "tuning up" the brains in such a way that ideologized individual would automatically exhibit the desired behavior in socially important situations - essentially, it is a Pavlovian conditioning as applied to the sphere of sociology.
Now, if Putin exhibits all the Pavlovian reflexes, and salivates at the ringing of the bell as expected, how important is it that the bell is set to 420 or 570 Hz and sounds at 80 instead of 82 decibel, for this is what Russian National Bolshevik Party insists on? It is like they would be insisting that Khodorkovsky be given not 9 but 15 years.
The only explanation would be a garden variety commie internecine squabble about minor doctrinal points and personalities (the history is choke full of them).
posted on 06/12/2005 1:00:53 PM PDT
To bring them to justice in Ceausescu style would require a bloodbath of REALLY epic proportions, for neither Stalin nor Genghis Khan have ever dared to dream on that scale. There are not enough lampposts in any country to hang those who would need to be hanged, and even Gulag could handle at most 5-10% of country population at any one time. And here one would be talking about maybe 25-30% (nomenklatura and their lackeys, "activists", informers, plus their family members - essentially the mirrored Stalinist approach from Katyn, but much more thorough). The first precondition for such a treatment would be to have a large occupation army hellbent on genocide and atrocities.
posted on 06/12/2005 1:12:00 PM PDT
To: GSlob; struwwelpeter
==Ideology is all about the "tuning up" the brains in such a way that ideologized individual would automatically exhibit the desired behavior in socially important situations - essentially, it is a Pavlovian conditioning as applied to the sphere of sociology.
I have a prior engagement that I must attend, otherwise I would love to engage you on this point. Suffice it to say, I think the Pavlovian effects of ideology support my point of view just as much as yours (if not more). I will be sure to pick up this thread when I return. As always, thanks for your thoughtful response (you too struwwelpeter). Until next time--HUAC.
See #12. It is not 1 but 25%, otherwise the communist edifice would have collapsed within first years of its existence if not earlier. And it existed, and was strong enough to withstand quite a stress load - thus its internal strength had to be significant.
posted on 06/12/2005 1:45:43 PM PDT
Hard for the person with full belly to believe the one who is starving! (Old Slavic proverb: Syty hladnemu neveri.) Naive paid for their stupidity at Jalta, no reason why shouldn't pay again, perhaps much bigger price.
Wake up America and vote the ba$tards out!
To: GSlob; Leo Carpathian
GSlob: Sorry I didn't see you post. I wasn't ignoring you.
Yes, it would be hard to find someone in the former Warsaw Pact without some history to him, or at least one qualified to run a country. Patton left mid- and lower-level Nazi bureaucrats keep the lights on, at least until a new generation of clerks could be trained. It may also be true in Iraq.
Leo: , that's very true. BTW: Ukrainians and Donbas Russians pronounce the 'g' in 'golod' as an 'h'. Where'd you pick that up?
Comment #17 Removed by Moderator
==See #12. It is not 1 but 25%, otherwise the communist edifice would have collapsed within first years of its existence if not earlier.
1) If 25% are Communist, that means 75% are not.
2) Of that 25%, how many are truly committed Communists do you suppose?
3) They could start with purging those who held, let's say, the top three positions of every Communist organ.
4) If the ideological Communists behave like Pavlovian dogs, then all your really saying is that it is impossible to tell the difference between coordination and the stimulus-response automaton these people have become. In that case, let's identify these people and remove them from power (serves the same purpose for those who believe Golitsyn and those who have a simple wish for democracy).
5) Pavlovian birds of a feather tend to flock together...it's incomprehensible to me that this particular flock would fail to organize. I am willing to bet that the vast majority of the corruption in these "formerly" Communist societies is directly and indirectly attributable to the 25% you speak of (although, I believe their numbers to be far less, but I will assume you know better than I).
6) No matter which way you slice it, these people need to be gotten rid of...Failure to do so means we will be introducing these subversives (25%) into Europe via the EU and NATO. How on earth could that be of benefit to the West or to Eastern Europe's interests?
7) This is especially disconcerting to those of us who feel that the Communists faked their own collapse in order to reinvigorate their stalled drive towards expansion (which is the lifeblood of the Communism, just as it was the lifeblood of Tsarist Russia, but far more so).
==Kind of late in the day to be re-writing history with Havel as a bad guy.
It's never too late to rewrite history so long as it results in the truth (on any subject).
BTW, I'm not inventing this information, these are Czech nationals who are bringing this stuff to light (in English).
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